Time to face reality about Cade

[bstein14]

Should move Cade to SF and obtain a true Point Guard.

I dunno, I'm kinda going back & forth on that. We might be OK with Ivey at lead guard & Ausar at the 3. Non of them are true PG, but I'm not even sure that's a real thing anymore, and all 3 can handle the ball. Duren even has some handles for a big. Stew is the only guy you really dont want touching the ball unless he's shooting an open shot or rebounding.

I can imagine a world where, with player development & good coaching, we don't need another PG. We just need to continue internal development.

That is of course purely hypothitical and not a promise. *shrug*

If that true PG is also good at catch and shoot threes for when we ISO Ivey or Cade I think it makes a lot of sense. That's why part of me is still liking Tyus Jones. Great AST to TO ratio, "veteran PG" who knows how to control the flow of a game, playoff experience, still young enough to fit with our core, etc.

I really think we might benefit most from a PG who is able to control the tempo and flow of the game as well as able to catch and shoot threes to space the floor. Jrue Holiday, Chris Paul, and Mike Conley are all FAs this summer too but I have a feeling we're not landing any of them.

It's kind of like if we had 2001 RIP and Billups together (which we didn't) Billups wasn't quite where he needed to be at that point but he went to Minnessota and learned from backing up Terrell Brandon. Learning how to make the right play at the right time and learning how to pace the game is crucial to being successful we've seen all season long where mistakes start to snowball because we don't have a vet in there to calm the troops and make sure we get a good look when we need it to stop a run.

[Cowology]

Should move Cade to SF and obtain a true Point Guard.

I dunno, I'm kinda going back & forth on that. We might be OK with Ivey at lead guard & Ausar at the 3. Non of them are true PG, but I'm not even sure that's a real thing anymore, and all 3 can handle the ball. Duren even has some handles for a big. Stew is the only guy you really dont want touching the ball unless he's shooting an open shot or rebounding.

I can imagine a world where, with player development & good coaching, we don't need another PG. We just need to continue internal development.

That is of course purely hypothitical and not a promise. *shrug*

If that true PG is also good at catch and shoot threes for when we ISO Ivey or Cade I think it makes a lot of sense. That's why part of me is still liking Tyus Jones. Great AST to TO ratio, "veteran PG" who knows how to control the flow of a game, playoff experience, still young enough to fit with our core, etc.

I really think we might benefit most from a PG who is able to control the tempo and flow of the game as well as able to catch and shoot threes to space the floor. Jrue Holiday, Chris Paul, and Mike Conley are all FAs this summer too but I have a feeling we're not landing any of them.

It's kind of like if we had 2001 RIP and Billups together (which we didn't) Billups wasn't quite where he needed to be at that point but he went to Minnessota and learned from backing up Terrell Brandon. Learning how to make the right play at the right time and learning how to pace the game is crucial to being successful we've seen all season long where mistakes start to snowball because we don't have a vet in there to calm the troops and make sure we get a good look when we need it to stop a run.

I wanted Conley 2 years ago, but I'm not sure who the 2024 version of that player is. Tyus makes sense, but he feels borderline starter/6th man to me. Close, but not quite good enough.

But I get the overall thought process & it makes sense.

[DBC10]

Should move Cade to SF and obtain a true Point Guard.

I dunno, I'm kinda going back & forth on that. We might be OK with Ivey at lead guard & Ausar at the 3. Non of them are true PG, but I'm not even sure that's a real thing anymore, and all 3 can handle the ball. Duren even has some handles for a big. Stew is the only guy you really dont want touching the ball unless he's shooting an open shot or rebounding.

I can imagine a world where, with player development & good coaching, we don't need another PG. We just need to continue internal development.

That is of course purely hypothitical and not a promise. *shrug*

If that true PG is also good at catch and shoot threes for when we ISO Ivey or Cade I think it makes a lot of sense. That's why part of me is still liking Tyus Jones. Great AST to TO ratio, "veteran PG" who knows how to control the flow of a game, playoff experience, still young enough to fit with our core, etc.

I really think we might benefit most from a PG who is able to control the tempo and flow of the game as well as able to catch and shoot threes to space the floor. Jrue Holiday, Chris Paul, and Mike Conley are all FAs this summer too but I have a feeling we're not landing any of them.

It's kind of like if we had 2001 RIP and Billups together (which we didn't) Billups wasn't quite where he needed to be at that point but he went to Minnessota and learned from backing up Terrell Brandon. Learning how to make the right play at the right time and learning how to pace the game is crucial to being successful we've seen all season long where mistakes start to snowball because we don't have a vet in there to calm the troops and make sure we get a good look when we need it to stop a run.

Our Ty Jones was supposed to be Monte Morris and we pulled the plug on that quick. Although, yes Morris was coming off an extremely nagging hammy injury. I'm more into slotting Ivey at PG, Grimes at SG, and then Cade at SF to see how they fare

Ausar has been defensively very good for us but I still think we need more spacing there

[Cowology]

Grimes is sorta an unknown quantity.

Totally different players, but when we traded for Bagley he was a year removed from 34% 3pt shooting and then stunk for 2 more seasons. It's probably worth giving Grimes an extended look, but I'm not getting my hopes up over him being any sort of long-term solution.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think if Cade and Ivey are going to be our future, they're going to have to figure it out as our main on the ball guys (though I think it should be closer to a 50/50 split than a Cade-only show).

[Mr Peanut]

I think the biggest issue for Cade right now is consistency. He has proven for a reasonable stretch this season that he can be a very high level/All-Star quality player when he averaged something like 26/5/8 on decent shooting percentages for a ~15 game stretch. The problem is sustaining that (this is affected by his injury troubles too). Also it's pretty clear that he shouldn't be utilized in a heliocentric role.

[Snakebites]

He's certainly not worth a max extension.

And that's really unfortunate. We don't have a clear star player after 4 solid years of tanking, and indicators aren't good that this draft will be the one where we finally get one. To say that's a major problem after this many years of solid misery is an understatement.

At this point I'd be in favor of waiting for him to hit restricted free agency. He gets another year to prove it. A max contract is more risky/harmful than whatever risk you think there is of him taking a QO and walking AFTER he proves himself.

[bstein14]

He's certainly not worth a max extension.

And that's really unfortunate. We don't have a clear star player after 4 solid years of tanking, and indicators aren't good that this draft will be the one where we finally get one. To say that's a major problem after this many years of solid misery is an understatement.

At this point I'd be in favor of waiting for him to hit restricted free agency. He gets another year to prove it. A max contract is more risky/harmful than whatever risk you think there is of him taking a QO and walking AFTER he proves himself.

He will almost certainly get a four year max offer from someone, even if they are banking on him getting better with time or in a better situation. I agree he's the 2nd worst on our team now for +/- on off he's only ahead of Wiseman of guys who have played 15+ games for us this season and Wiseman is awful not an NBA caliber player. Cade hasn't played winning ball for 90% of his games this season.

[Cowology]

Cade just sorta feels like a trap right now. He's good, but not great. Some skill, but not modern skills. Shown flashes, but no consistency.

All that said it's certainly possible that he puts in all together. Health has been the biggest issue. It's easy to forget but there have certainly been moments that make you go "Damn, he IS the guy". Dude is essentially in his 2nd year of ball and now has to learn how to play through constant double teams & traps. I would not be shocked if he took an explosive step forward next year.

But I kinda want him to show me before I give him the contract and that doesn't feel unreasonable.

[zeebneeb]

Things are so bad. Threads like this exist, proves it.

Might be time for a Gordon/Villinauava break from the team.

Think 3 years will do it?

[Snakebites]

He's certainly not worth a max extension.

And that's really unfortunate. We don't have a clear star player after 4 solid years of tanking, and indicators aren't good that this draft will be the one where we finally get one. To say that's a major problem after this many years of solid misery is an understatement.

At this point I'd be in favor of waiting for him to hit restricted free agency. He gets another year to prove it. A max contract is more risky/harmful than whatever risk you think there is of him taking a QO and walking AFTER he proves himself.

He will almost certainly get a four year max offer from someone, even if they are banking on him getting better with time or in a better situation. I agree he's the 2nd worst on our team now for +/- on off he's only ahead of Wiseman of guys who have played 15+ games for us this season and Wiseman is awful not an NBA caliber player. Cade hasn't played winning ball for 90% of his games this season.

We'll probably need to pay a max to keep him.

Another year will give us the opportunity to decide whether that's worth it. Or we can trade him.

Those are the options. Don't give him crazy money based on what we've seen this year.

[buzzkilloton]

He's certainly not worth a max extension.

And that's really unfortunate. We don't have a clear star player after 4 solid years of tanking, and indicators aren't good that this draft will be the one where we finally get one. To say that's a major problem after this many years of solid misery is an understatement.

At this point I'd be in favor of waiting for him to hit restricted free agency. He gets another year to prove it. A max contract is more risky/harmful than whatever risk you think there is of him taking a QO and walking AFTER he proves himself.

He will almost certainly get a four year max offer from someone, even if they are banking on him getting better with time or in a better situation. I agree he's the 2nd worst on our team now for +/- on off he's only ahead of Wiseman of guys who have played 15+ games for us this season and Wiseman is awful not an NBA caliber player. Cade hasn't played winning ball for 90% of his games this season.

100% he will get one from someone if we dont do it. Other teams will bet on the fact that were not developing him properly and the change of scenery will turn him around. I think we forget the rest of the league sees us as a former Kings style franchise these days after how long we've stunk. Look at the players we've put around him were the island of misfit toys.

Its not so much that hes "worth it" right now. Its just that he has potential to pay off and be worth it so another team will gamble. We just cant afford to let him go for nothing. We could ofc trade him now and recoup value if we dont want to pay him.

[buzzkilloton]

He's certainly not worth a max extension.

And that's really unfortunate. We don't have a clear star player after 4 solid years of tanking, and indicators aren't good that this draft will be the one where we finally get one. To say that's a major problem after this many years of solid misery is an understatement.

At this point I'd be in favor of waiting for him to hit restricted free agency. He gets another year to prove it. A max contract is more risky/harmful than whatever risk you think there is of him taking a QO and walking AFTER he proves himself.

He will almost certainly get a four year max offer from someone, even if they are banking on him getting better with time or in a better situation. I agree he's the 2nd worst on our team now for +/- on off he's only ahead of Wiseman of guys who have played 15+ games for us this season and Wiseman is awful not an NBA caliber player. Cade hasn't played winning ball for 90% of his games this season.

We'll probably need to pay a max to keep him.

Another year will give us the opportunity to decide whether that's worth it. Or we can trade him.

Those are the options. Don't give him crazy money based on what we've seen this year.

We have some massive decisions to make as a franchise now. This is exactly why we need to get the next GM in to make them. If you let Troy make all the decisions no decent GM is going to come in to clean up the mess.

[Snakebites]

He will almost certainly get a four year max offer from someone, even if they are banking on him getting better with time or in a better situation. I agree he's the 2nd worst on our team now for +/- on off he's only ahead of Wiseman of guys who have played 15+ games for us this season and Wiseman is awful not an NBA caliber player. Cade hasn't played winning ball for 90% of his games this season.

We'll probably need to pay a max to keep him.

Another year will give us the opportunity to decide whether that's worth it. Or we can trade him.

Those are the options. Don't give him crazy money based on what we've seen this year.

We have some massive decisions to make as a franchise now. This is exactly why we need to get the next GM in to make them. If you let Troy make all the decisions no decent GM is going to come in to clean up the mess.

The problem is there's a very clear and very plausible scenario where we're WORSE off giving him a max than letting him walk.

His floor as an NBA player is that low right now, health considered. That may be a harsh appraisal but the stats support it.

It's a rough situation but it's the one we're in. I'm against extending him right now.

[treefi]

What could Cade and a top 5 pick get us?

[dezzie_33]

I'm sure this has been said already, but the biggest issue is that we look much better as a quick up tempo team.
Ivey, Duren and Ausar feel most comfortable running the floor in the open court, where as Cade is slow, methodical and a half court initiator.
It just doesn't mix right now, especially with Cade and the lead guard. The rest of the team go into their shell and don't play their natural style of play when Cade runs the offense. It's as if the rest of the core four play with more freedom when Cade isn't running the show.
I dunno man, it's hard watching what'd happening. Surely the FO sees what we're seeing?

[treefi]

I'm sure this has been said already, but the biggest issue is that we look much better as a quick up tempo team.
Ivey, Duren and Ausar feel most comfortable running the floor in the open court, where as Cade is slow, methodical and a half court initiator.
It just doesn't mix right now, especially with Cade and the lead guard. The rest of the team go into their shell and don't play their natural style of play when Cade runs the offense. It's as if the rest of the core four play with more freedom when Cade isn't running the show.
I dunno man, it's hard watching what'd happening. Surely the FO sees what we're seeing?

This is exactly it.

[bstein14]

What could Cade and a top 5 pick get us?

Probably Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson.

[BadMofoPimp]

What could Cade and a top 5 pick get us?

Probably Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson.

That sounds interesting a potentially better fit.

[treefi]

What about Cade for Michael Porter Jr straight up? I prefer Porter Jr over Tobias. Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson sound nice too.