RIP's on fire....

[prophet_of_rage]

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At the time, I also worried that we would miss Stackhouse's ability to get to the line (but I didn't like Stackhouse's game overall, so I loved the trade). But Rip has gotten there plenty for Detroit (although someone recently noted that he isn't getting there as much this year).

He's not focussing on getting there as much this year. Two years ago he led the league in 3 point shooting but his free throw attempts went down. Dumars asked him to try to get to the line more. So he did and his 3 point takes and makes went down and his FTA went up. Now he's found a comfortable midground getting to the rim and getting midrange jumpers and getting the occasional 3.

Rip going to the line involves too much dribbling and he isn't big enough to bull through and force contact.

This is the right blend for him.

[Cowology]

Ignore Cow on anything Rip related. He has some irrational hate for him. Last year he wanted to start Crylos el Fino over him.

Right, just like I had an irrational hate for Ben because I didn't think he was as good as everybody else on this board did.

And btw- you obviously completed missed the point behind my desire to bring Rip off the bench. It was because our bench production was crap and I felt we had enough scorers in the starting lineup. I wanted to get Tay and Sheed more involved early and then bring Rip off as a Super Sub with the 2nd unit while still playing him starters minutes and finishing games. The only real difference would have been he'd enter the game 6 minutes later; ala Ginobili.

[prophet_of_rage]

-= original quote snipped =-

Right, just like I had an irrational hate for Ben because I didn't think he was as good as everybody else on this board did.

And btw- you obviously completed missed the point behind my desire to bring Rip off the bench. It was because our bench production was crap and I felt we had enough scorers in the starting lineup. I wanted to get Tay and Sheed more involved early and then bring Rip off as a Super Sub with the 2nd unit while still playing him starters minutes and finishing games. The only real difference would have been he'd enter the game 6 minutes later; ala Ginobili.

Oh yeah, I remember that. I was wondering what was up with the poster's statement.

I think our current system of letting Rip go crazy early is actually better than bringing him in later. The reason being is that once we get the ball moving it doesn't slow down. It's much more difficult to get the ball moving once it starts in dump it in scoring.

I'm curious as to how we had enough scoring last year without Rip? Are you talking about with Webber?

Rip with the subs would have been bad because he isn't a breakdown player a la Ginobili. He's a catch and shoot guy who works beautifully off screens.

I could see Webber coming off the bench because he's a natural passer and a low post presence who would be too crafty for most backups.

I think we found the best solution as to the bench. Get a better one.

But you never did answer the question I posed earlier about thinking McDyess and Prince are less replaceable than Rip.

[Uncle Mxy]

Rip was a 20 ppg scorer in 32 mpg under Carlisle's grinding offense.

I think 32 mpg is the # of minutes to get the optimal best out of Rip.

[roc]

Oh yeah, I remember that. I was wondering what was up with the poster's statement.

I think our current system of letting Rip go crazy early is actually better than bringing him in later. The reason being is that once we get the ball moving it doesn't slow down. It's much more difficult to get the ball moving once it starts in dump it in scoring.

I'm curious as to how we had enough scoring last year without Rip? Are you talking about with Webber?

Rip with the subs would have been bad because he isn't a breakdown player a la Ginobili. He's a catch and shoot guy who works beautifully off screens.

I could see Webber coming off the bench because he's a natural passer and a low post presence who would be too crafty for most backups.

I think we found the best solution as to the bench. Get a better one.

But you never did answer the question I posed earlier about thinking McDyess and Prince are less replaceable than Rip.

Yeah I remember the Rip off the bench super sub scenario.

anyway as far as Dice and Tay go I do think they are a bit easier to replace as long as Rip keeps up his moving without the ball.

Tay is actually the guy best to use in a trade scenario. He has good value to many teams. Plays great D, can handle the rock, shoots well, but tends to play somewhat meekly at times.

An Atlanta fan brought up a Tay for Marvin Williams deal that looked interesting to me. Maybe expand on it to make it more fair for us.

Tay/Hayes/Murray for Williams/Chilldress/Claxton

Would we get better as well as younger or would our chemistry take a hit?

I think taking on Speedy sucks but adding both Williams and Chilldress should make for an even more promising future. Could Wiiliams D up guys like LeBron better than Tay I wonder?

Last year it was a Memphis fan wanting Tay for Gay...

An always aggressive 3 like Marvin just might be what the Doctor ordered.

Food for thought

[Cowology]

To me Tay is the glue of our team. It's his ability to fill so many niches that takes pressure off everybody else and allows them to play their game. His ability to handle the ball takes pressure off Chauncey. His ability to defend the opposing teams best perimeter scorer takes pressure off Rip. His ability to either spread the floor w/ his 3 or post up takes pressure of our bigs in a variety of ways.

He just does whatever is needed for the given situation and that sort of intangible is far harder to replace than some scoring, imo. Although it's also worth noting that when Rip isn't in the lineup Princes aggressiveness and scoring both go up.

[roc]

To me Tay is the glue of our team. It's his ability to fill so many niches that takes pressure off everybody else and allows them to play their game. His ability to handle the ball takes pressure off Chauncey. His ability to defend the opposing teams best perimeter scorer takes pressure off Rip. His ability to either spread the floor w/ his 3 or post up takes pressure of our bigs in a variety of ways.

He just does whatever is needed for the given situation and that sort of intangible is far harder to replace than some scoring, imo. Although it's also worth noting that when Rip isn't in the lineup Princes aggressiveness and scoring both go up.

I think a guy like Chill (good D, good handles, very efficient) could fill that spot and then bring Marvin off the bench ala your last season's Rip idea.

A bench with Stuckey/Afflalo/Marvin/Maxiell/Amir/Hermann/Brezec/Hunter is even more insane than we have now and the starters shouldn't skip a beat either.

[Cowology]

I like Chill a lot, but he doesn't have Tays veteran savvy & experience. And lets not forget that every year we talk about how Tay is either our best or one of our best playoff performers. The dude almost always steps it up in a huge way. It's a BIG gamble to think a young guy like Childress, coming from a losing franchise, will be able to give that same sort of stability under those same conditions. Prince is biggest in big games...Childress...is an unknown.

[roc]

I like Chill a lot, but he doesn't have Tays veteran savvy & experience. And lets not forget that every year we talk about how Tay is either our best or one of our best playoff performers. The dude almost always steps it up in a huge way. It's a BIG gamble to think a young guy like Childress, coming from a losing franchise, will be able to give that same sort of stability under those same conditions. Prince is biggest in big games...Childress...is an unknown.

It is mos def a gamble but it would be nice to have a guy like Marvin on the bench that could play big minutes against the stronger SFs like LeBron that Tay does struggle against. He does great in the playoffs but certain matchups do occur that are very problematic for him. Sure the Hawks haven't been there, done that but neither had Tay when he was first called on in the playoffs by Carlisle, he came up huge. Ya never know til ya know.

Like you Cow, I just enjoy coming up with ideas even if in the back of my head I know it really is not even a remote possibility. It makes for fun conversation though...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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Right, just like I had an irrational hate for Ben because I didn't think he was as good as everybody else on this board did.

And btw- you obviously completed missed the point behind my desire to bring Rip off the bench. It was because our bench production was crap and I felt we had enough scorers in the starting lineup. I wanted to get Tay and Sheed more involved early and then bring Rip off as a Super Sub with the 2nd unit while still playing him starters minutes and finishing games. The only real difference would have been he'd enter the game 6 minutes later; ala Ginobili.

Rip to me is in no man's land under Flip. I feel like it's just when will the Pistons trade him. Not if. I think last season's playoffs he became less of a focal point. The team went and drafted Stuckey and Afflalo, and Mejia for that matter. Not too subtle hints they want PG depth and improved athleticism and defense at SG. And with Stuckey being so talented and this being Chauncey's team, my math says Rip is odd man out, eventually.

The notion of bringing Rip off the bench makes sense but won't happen. Wizard fans have said the same about 20/10 Jamison. He's a good offensive player and he'd really boost the second unit. Problem is like Rip he's a darned good starter. Neither will come off the bench any time soon.

I think Hamilton will be gone by next summer but that it would be terribly risky to the chemistry of the Pistons to trade him now.

[ADM]

How did a "Rip's on fire" thread turn into a "Trade Rip" thread?

Rip is on fire, and good for him. It won't last like this all year, but it's nice to see him tearing it up. He'll end the season pretty much where he's been the last few years - 19-20ppg, 45-50% shooting, ~4 assists, decent defense.

In the meantime, he'll win some regular season games on his own by stringing together 5-8 dagger jumpers. Come playoff time, he'll still be one of the more reliable performers at the 2 guard position in the league.

Anyone who wants to trade him, especially given his salary, is NUTS, IMO.

[jab]

How did a "Rip's on fire" thread turn into a "Trade Rip" thread?

Rip is on fire, and good for him. It won't last like this all year, but it's nice to see him tearing it up. He'll end the season pretty much where he's been the last few years - 19-20ppg, 45-50% shooting, ~4 assists, decent defense.

In the meantime, he'll win some regular season games on his own by stringing together 5-8 dagger jumpers. Come playoff time, he'll still be one of the more reliable performers at the 2 guard position in the league.

Anyone who wants to trade him, especially given his salary, is NUTS, IMO.

[princeofpalace]

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Rip to me is in no man's land under Flip. I feel like it's just when will the Pistons trade him. Not if. I think last season's playoffs he became less of a focal point. The team went and drafted Stuckey and Afflalo, and Mejia for that matter. Not too subtle hints they want PG depth and improved athleticism and defense at SG. And with Stuckey being so talented and this being Chauncey's team, my math says Rip is odd man out, eventually.

The notion of bringing Rip off the bench makes sense but won't happen. Wizard fans have said the same about 20/10 Jamison. He's a good offensive player and he'd really boost the second unit. Problem is like Rip he's a darned good starter. Neither will come off the bench any time soon.

I think Hamilton will be gone by next summer but that it would be terribly risky to the chemistry of the Pistons to trade him now.

I dont understand why people dont see that Rip Hamilton is KEY to the offense. His presense on the court, curling an coming off screens frees up the offense and makes things a lot more free flowing for everybody else on the court. IMO- Rip is not in Saunders dog house at all, if anything Saunders 'volumnous' offensive playbook is definately helped by Rip Hamilton.

In the few games where Rip was absent, the offense was terribly stagnant and there was a lot of ISO ball being played. Sure- we won those games and Tayhshaun Prince was brilliant but the offense was definately less pretty.

One of the things that I love about Rip is that he is one of the few Pistons that adds to his game every offseason. Last season, he wanted to get to the line more and did, the season before he wanted to improve his 3pt shooting and he did, this season he has become a better ballhandler and plays better defense.

Hamilton has a lot of weapons and Detroits offense definately benefits from having him on the court, this last stretch of games he has been brilliant. He's gone back to his great 3pt shooting, he is dishing out a lot of assists and grabbing a lot of rebounds in addition to shooting a very very high percentage. IMO- he's definately one of the reasons why Detroit has been on a tear.

I dont think drafting Stuckey, Afflalo and Mejia (who was cut, btw) signals an impending trade for RIp Hamilton. Drafting those three players was definately for the short term to replace their weak counterparts in Hunter/Murray. Detroit definately gets a bonus because of Stuckeys star potential and Afflalo looking like a more than legit role player.
I dont think either player is ready to take over a starting role within the next few seasons, the third season is really when Detroits rookies sees the most time and at that time, Rip will have expired.

Anyways, Im glad to see a positive Rip post it wasnt too long ago when people were crying for him to be traded

[Dirtgrain]

How did a "Rip's on fire" thread turn into a "Trade Rip" thread?

I hope I didn't start it--I was just joking.

[Chuck Nevicic]

How did a "Rip's on fire" thread turn into a "Trade Rip" thread?

This is a thread for dumbshits to spout myths about Tay and Chauncey being great playoff performers. Rip by far and away has been this teams most consistent playoff performer these past 5 season. Jesus tap dancing Christ when it comes to Piston all time leader in playoff points he's a couple hundred points behind Zeke and a couple hundred ahead of Joe.

Playoff PPG as Pistons

Rip 20.91
Chauncey 17.7
Tay 12.9
Sheed 14

I believe only BOB LANIER is ahead of Rip in PPG in the playoffs from a Piston.

Rip CARRIED the team (offensively) to the Finals in 04. While Chuancey and Tay were struggling to stay over 30% for the series Rip was dropping 24ppg on almost 50% shooting against the DPOY.

Tay defense has been on the decline since the rule changes. So much so that sometimes Rip is matched up with the best SG/SF because Tay isn't quick enough to stay with them.

Tay is too skinny. Do I have to remind you just how bad Tay was during the ECF last year? Dude shot in the 20's and got destroyed by Lebron James.

This is a **** joke.

[HeroicKennedy]

Finally, someone points out something I've said all along.

Rip is our most consistent player during the playoffs. Even in the mid 60's games we had against the Pacers, he still hit nearly (or even above) 20 points.

In my mind, Rip is the second least tradeable starter on the Pistons.

Tayshaun has a managable contract and a lot of intangibles, but lacks that killer instinct.
Rasheed has a nice expiring after next season, plus his mood swings.
McDyess' knees are a ticking timebomb, even with Kander.

[Dirtgrain]

Tay defense has been on the decline since the rule changes. So much so that sometimes Rip is matched up with the best SG/SF because Tay isn't quick enough to stay with them.

Tay is too skinny. Do I have to remind you just how bad Tay was during the ECF last year? Dude shot in the 20's and got destroyed by Lebron James.

This is a **** joke.

Word on what you said about Rip, but Tay's defense is still good, depending on the match ups. Case in point, in the last game Caron Butler was destroying Jarvis Hayes. Caron had that look of invulnerability, as if he could score at will, every time he got the ball and Jarvis was in front of him. Enter Tayshaun. No more look of invulnerability. I do think Tayshaun is playing "regular season" ball, maybe coasting a bit. But he did look like he was really trying against Boston last time. I bet Pierce wants a piece of him. Let's watch Tayshaun closely tomorrow and see (damn, I might miss the game--going to the motorcycle show probably).

[prophet_of_rage]

[quote="Chuck Nevicic"][/quote]

I was waiting for somebody to realise that Hamilton is the rock on which the Pistons playoffs have been built. Chauncey gets the hype because he holds onto the ball in the fourth, but the guy who gets them into the game and keeps them in position to win those first 36 minutes is Rip.

[prophet_of_rage]

Tay's defence is better on bullish players. Strong guys who just try to go through you. Rip can't defend those types, but if you're going to dance on the perimeter and play with the ball usually Rip is the guy that gets switched onto you.

It's not just 2/3s, but Hamilton was the one to guard Iverson in playoff series, often covered Parker and every other quick guard where he was able to bother them with his length and his surprising ability to stick.

[Dirtgrain]

Do we have to agree on a "the guy?" We lose any one of our starters and we're going to feel it.