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Mr Peanut wrote:

Vampirate wrote:

Spider156 wrote:So he can pay Markannen and stay stuck on a treadmill Play In team at best.

By the way, Ainge got the worst first round picks for Gobert. They’re literally #29, that’s worse than a second round pick because it’s a guaranteed contract. That’s not a haul.

A trade for Lauri is going to cost you 4 first round picks (yours) to start with.

It's also extremely likely Ainge is going to ask for Cade himself as well.

If you think that's unreasonable, one he has basically the optimal #2 option in the NBA and 2 it's Ainge. He will always look to fleece the teams he trades with.

It'd be no different if he was talking to the Raptors as he'd be straight up asking for Barnes + 4 firsts.

While I agree that Ainge will ask for everything and then some, it has to be factored in that Markannen will be expiring and I presume there's that rule where if a team wants to extend a player they can only offer a certain percentage above that player's current salary (which will be 18M for Markannen). So he will go to free agency and would be considered a flight risk. That has to be factored into his value.

I could see a universe where we offer Stewart, Ivey, our 2024 first round pick (will be at least top 5) and our 2029 1st (earliest we can trade given our current first round protections). That still might not get it done.

Stewart, Ivey, and a top 5 pick is absolutely enough in the real world, but Ainge is an asshat. Going any higher then that, means your moving on to a better player.

That's a haul for a 1st time all-star. I find it hard to believe he would get a better offer. Future firsts are one thing, one in the hand is another.

It would be foolish to trade Ivey because of a sophomore slump. A guy that doesn't have injury issues, wants to play in Detroit and will likely improve his 3pt percentage moving forward. Naw, keep him. The Jazz will probably take a trade involving our 1st rounder(especially if its the 1st overall pick) and Sasser with Stewart going to a 3rd team.

Sh#t if the Jazz declines that deal, I'm even on board with trading our 1st for Young or Murray, let Cade play the 2 and let Ivey play 6th man. We can then go after a 4 in free agency.

I feel like Ivey's value is all-time low right now unless you can get an above average starter for him he's worth holding onto.

An average starter being about the 14th - 16th best player at their position in the league, I'm looking for someone who's a bit better than that but also in their 20s. Someone who's probably a top 10-12 player at their position in the league and I don't think we can get that for Ivey at the moment... especially not young and not overpaid.

bstein14 wrote:I feel like Ivey's value is all-time low right now unless you can get an above average starter for him he's worth holding onto.

Holding onto our assets until they’ve devalued to almost nothing.

It’s the Piston way.

You’re not necessarily wrong about the approach here, it’s just frustrating that it’s where we’re at.

Unless ivey starts playing defense, his value is as high as it is going to get. He was drafted so high because his impressive athleticism and speed had him projected as a 2 way , do-it-all guard. He had plenty of highlight reel blocks, steals and deflections in college. I don't know if anyone thought he was going to be a lock down defender, but at least guy who could hold his own 1-on-1 and be really disruptive with his speed in passing lanes and rotations. But he's been a complete turnstile guarding his own man and is rarely in a position actually utilize his quickness in rotations and passing lanes. I mean, I know the flashy stats don't make a good defender, but it's inconceivable to me that a guy as quick as he is is #129 in steals. And I have no idea how he's always trailing his man by 5 ft when he's the fastest guy in the gym.

Whats he going to avg next season? Ill say something like 24/5/8 on 48/37/88

MotownMadness wrote:Whats he going to avg next season? Ill say something like 24/5/8 on 48/37/88

27/5/8, 38% from three, that’s my hope
Lol

MotownMadness wrote:Whats he going to avg next season? Ill say something like 24/5/8 on 48/37/88

He absolutely needs to average 30/8/5. He is absolutely capable of it, and has to bring it every damn night.

Ive never been shy about being high on Cade, but occasionally I get this nagging concern over his durability.
Anyone else ever have that uneasy feeling over whether his legs will hold up long term?

breezypeezy wrote:Ive never been shy about being high on Cade, but occasionally I get this nagging concern over his durability.
Anyone else ever have that uneasy feeling over whether his legs will hold up long term?

Its possible, but I don't think he's hurt whatsoever right now.

No one thinks any of these game matter, rightfully so, so why play him?

I mean as a fan I want him to play, but the games mean absolutely nothing.

Long term I believe he will be fine.

joedumars1 wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:Whats he going to avg next season? Ill say something like 24/5/8 on 48/37/88

27/5/8, 38% from three, that’s my hope
Lol

If we get shooters around him hes going to average like 25/9/5 on 38%+ from 3pt. Hes going to look so much better playing with spacing.

From Jan. 15 to today (26 games), Cade averaged [b]22.4 points, 7.8 assists and 4.7 rebounds[/b] while upping his 3-point percentage to 38.5 on 5.2 attempts per game.

I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

buzzkilloton wrote:I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

I don't pretend to be smart enough to know this but what if we gave Tyus Jones a big ass contract and let him come off the bench to give us a solid 3guard rotation?
Or Cade and him start together if we decide to trade Ivey? Can that work with him and Cade cause I believe we need a PG that can shoot alongside him more than just a knockdown SG. Liken it to Booker and CP3

buzzkilloton wrote:I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

yeah he's one of the better play makers in the league overall and besides haliburton and doncic the best play maker under 25. his entire process is about making plays for others first and then getting his own shot when he's exhausted other options.

cade definitely has the skill, size and IQ to take a big leap one of these seasons. i think you absolutely have to extend him to a max deal and build around him until you can acquire a player better than him. OKC did the same with SGA (despite two back-to-back sub-25 win seasons) and his big leap coincided with them drafting a couple studs in chet and jalen williams to support him.

Canadafan wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

I don't pretend to be smart enough to know this but what if we gave Tyus Jones a big ass contract and let him come off the bench to give us a solid 3guard rotation?
Or Cade and him start together if we decide to trade Ivey? Can that work with him and Cade cause I believe we need a PG that can shoot alongside him more than just a knockdown SG. Liken it to Booker and CP3

I've seen Tyus mentioned as a pickup by some other fans as well. He can shoot (41.4% 3pt) and has a really high basketball IQ two things our roster really could use. I'd be OK with it esp if we landed him+traded for another impact player. Could not only impact things on the court but the culture here as well.

Tyus could start in more of a secondary ball handler role. Then we would stagger him and Cade to keep one on the court at all times. Tyus does his damage off a very low usage just 16.3 to give you a idea Ivey is at about 25 and Cade is just under 31. In theory we would have elite playmaking on the court at all times with staggering them.

I've read that Tyus is going to have strong interest this offseason including the Wiz trying to bring him back. Spurs are rumored to be interested as well so you figure they offer a starting job+Wemby+Pop+no state income tax. So the question would be how much more would we have to offer over other teams to bring him in. Maybe we could offer a short term 3 year overpay so it kick starts the rebuild like the Rockets(pay him less then FVV) did this year on their FAs and then we can reassess in a few years where were at.

whitehops wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

yeah he's one of the better play makers in the league overall and besides haliburton and doncic the best play maker under 25. his entire process is about making plays for others first and then getting his own shot when he's exhausted other options.

cade definitely has the skill, size and IQ to take a big leap one of these seasons. i think you absolutely have to extend him to a max deal and build around him until you can acquire a player better than him. OKC did the same with SGA (despite two back-to-back sub-25 win seasons) and his big leap coincided with them drafting a couple studs in chet and jalen williams to support him.

Yup OKC went 22wins, 25,40(the 40 was no Chet),and now one of the best teams ITL. Houston and Orl are coming out of the tanking cellars and turning into potential future contenders as well.We have at least one stud to build around gotta set him up for success we could be the next zero to hero team if we play it right.

SGAs massive leap was year 5 this is year 6. Cades just finished year 3 but he missed his entire year 2. SGA also had some injury concerns at one point. Getting the right players around him really leveled up his game.

buzzkilloton wrote:

whitehops wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:I dont think fans realize Cade is already one of the best passers in the NBA. This season he had 5th highest assist % in the entire league hes behind Trae,Hali,Luka, and Jokic. Behind him are LBJ,Tyus Jones,Sabonis,Harden, and Brunson.

His TOV% is 14.1 which in the top 10 is under Trae,LBJ,Sabonis,and Harden.

Cade is in elite passing company and hes the youngest guy in that group. Keep in mind hes doing this on a roster that hasnt even been set up for him to succeed whatsoever. Very impressive numbers

yeah he's one of the better play makers in the league overall and besides haliburton and doncic the best play maker under 25. his entire process is about making plays for others first and then getting his own shot when he's exhausted other options.

cade definitely has the skill, size and IQ to take a big leap one of these seasons. i think you absolutely have to extend him to a max deal and build around him until you can acquire a player better than him. OKC did the same with SGA (despite two back-to-back sub-25 win seasons) and his big leap coincided with them drafting a couple studs in chet and jalen williams to support him.

Yup OKC went 22wins, 25,40(the 40 was no Chet),and now one of the best teams ITL. Houston and Orl are coming out of the tanking cellars and turning into potential future contenders as well.We have at least one stud to build around gotta set him up for success we could be the next zero to hero team if we play it right.

SGAs massive leap was year 5 this is year 6. Cades just finished year 3 but he missed his entire year 2. SGA also had some injury concerns at one point. Getting the right players around him really leveled up his game.

We just need to find a Jalen Williams and a Chet Holmgren in the worst draft of all time and then we'll be a poor man's OKC

Fact is, our best player would be OKC's 4th best player.

BDM22 wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:

whitehops wrote:
yeah he's one of the better play makers in the league overall and besides haliburton and doncic the best play maker under 25. his entire process is about making plays for others first and then getting his own shot when he's exhausted other options.

cade definitely has the skill, size and IQ to take a big leap one of these seasons. i think you absolutely have to extend him to a max deal and build around him until you can acquire a player better than him. OKC did the same with SGA (despite two back-to-back sub-25 win seasons) and his big leap coincided with them drafting a couple studs in chet and jalen williams to support him.

SGAs massive leap was year 5 this is year 6. Cades just finished year 3 but he missed his entire year 2. SGA also had some injury concerns at one point. Getting the right players around him really leveled up his game.

We just need to find a Jalen Williams and a Chet Holmgren in the worst draft of all time and then we'll be a poor man's OKC

Fact is, our best player would be OKC's 4th best player.

Their are plenty of teams that have went from bottom tier teams to competent team or even potential title contender in recent years. OKC,Minn,Clev,NY, teams like Orl and Houston are now coming from the very bottom to 40-45 win teams now just off the top of my head. I know its hard to see it when you have such a defeated losers mentality but were only a couple good moves away from being the next surprise rising team ITL.

buzzkilloton wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:


SGAs massive leap was year 5 this is year 6. Cades just finished year 3 but he missed his entire year 2. SGA also had some injury concerns at one point. Getting the right players around him really leveled up his game.

We just need to find a Jalen Williams and a Chet Holmgren in the worst draft of all time and then we'll be a poor man's OKC

Fact is, our best player would be OKC's 4th best player.

Their are plenty of teams that have went from bottom tier teams to competent team or even potential title contender in recent years. OKC,Minn,Clev,NY, teams like Orl and Houston are now coming from the very bottom to 40-45 win teams now just off the top of my head. I know its hard to see it when you have such a defeated losers mentality but were only a couple good moves away from being the next surprise rising team ITL.

It's called reality. Can we become a 40 win team around Cade by spending all of the assets we have? Sure. Sell off the picks, Duren, Ivey, etc for older established players and overpay some veterans in free agency. We'd probably be in that ballpark of a fringe play-in team. The difference is that we'd then be at the point of having no assets to try to continue to improve. More like an Atlanta or those RJ/Dre Pistons than a OKC, Houston, etc who still retain 2X or 3X as many young players and assets as we have.

BDM22 wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:

BDM22 wrote:
We just need to find a Jalen Williams and a Chet Holmgren in the worst draft of all time and then we'll be a poor man's OKC

Fact is, our best player would be OKC's 4th best player.

Their are plenty of teams that have went from bottom tier teams to competent team or even potential title contender in recent years. OKC,Minn,Clev,NY, teams like Orl and Houston are now coming from the very bottom to 40-45 win teams now just off the top of my head. I know its hard to see it when you have such a defeated losers mentality but were only a couple good moves away from being the next surprise rising team ITL.

It's called reality. Can we become a 40 win team around Cade by spending all of the assets we have? Sure. Sell off the picks, Duren, Ivey, etc for older established players and overpay some veterans in free agency. We'd probably be in that ballpark of a fringe play-in team. The difference is that we'd then be at the point of having no assets to try to continue to improve. More like an Atlanta or those RJ/Dre Pistons than a OKC, Houston, etc who still retain 2X or 3X as many young players and assets as we have.

Ah yes the ceiling of the RJ/Dre Pistons the comparison you made yesterday. Straight losers mentality.