Trade Ideas thread

[DET_Athletics]

If we land Sarr, we should trade the rights for Wiseman.

Negotiation rights cannot be traded in the NBA. The trade deadline was the final day of trade eligibility for Wiseman.

A dream situation would be trade for Jarred Vanderbilt or Johnathan Issac (If he can stay healthy)

How so? Vanderbilt is a power forward who can't shoot. Isaac is a nutcase who can't stay healthy and also still hasn't established any pedigree as a shooter.

If we land Risacher or Buzelis then we keep Wiseman. Give him a 2 year with a team option for the 2nd year. But either way it goes, this team need more length and shooting.

Why? He's been a complete disaster on the court in both of his seasons with the Pistons -- unequivocally one of the worst players in the league -- and he's made minimal progress since he arrived in Detroit.

What do you think is more important to this team, defense or offense on the second unit? I would argue to say defense so that they don't get blown out and give up big leads that the starters have to make up. The reason I said Issac or Vanderbilt is because we don't have a single person on the roster that can physically match up to slow down a Mobley, Gannis, JJJ, Smith jr. The reason I said to give Wiseman some type of contract is trade him as part as filler and there is something called sign and trade as well. But the biggest reason Wiseman needs to go is because he is an Offensive minded big that has been handcuffed by our system. The plays that we run are Guard focused where the big is running dribble hand-offs and Rolling. Wiseman needs chance to face up, run the ball through him on the Elbow and the block, he isn't going to get that here from Monty.

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[DET_Athletics]

If we land Sarr, we should trade the rights for Wiseman.

Negotiation rights cannot be traded in the NBA. The trade deadline was the final day of trade eligibility for Wiseman.

A dream situation would be trade for Jarred Vanderbilt or Johnathan Issac (If he can stay healthy)

How so? Vanderbilt is a power forward who can't shoot. Isaac is a nutcase who can't stay healthy and also still hasn't established any pedigree as a shooter.

If we land Risacher or Buzelis then we keep Wiseman. Give him a 2 year with a team option for the 2nd year. But either way it goes, this team need more length and shooting.

Why? He's been a complete disaster on the court in both of his seasons with the Pistons -- unequivocally one of the worst players in the league -- and he's made minimal progress since he arrived in Detroit.

Just because he has been "break-out" player, doesn't mean he has been the worse player in the league. Unlike Killian, if we were to cut Wiseman today, he would get picked up by another team, you can't teach 7 feet. Wiseman has been out into a role, a role that doesn't play into any of his strong traits. Monty is basically playing tough love with him and I see growth from him. He is trying to make him into a complete player and that is making him work on the defensive end. Wiseman has the offense, but he always checked out on defense. He is making strides. I would bring him back, unless we get another talented 7 footer in the draft(Sarr).

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[DET_Athletics]

If we land Sarr, we should trade the rights for Wiseman.

Negotiation rights cannot be traded in the NBA. The trade deadline was the final day of trade eligibility for Wiseman.

A dream situation would be trade for Jarred Vanderbilt or Johnathan Issac (If he can stay healthy)

How so? Vanderbilt is a power forward who can't shoot. Isaac is a nutcase who can't stay healthy and also still hasn't established any pedigree as a shooter.

If we land Risacher or Buzelis then we keep Wiseman. Give him a 2 year with a team option for the 2nd year. But either way it goes, this team need more length and shooting.

Why? He's been a complete disaster on the court in both of his seasons with the Pistons -- unequivocally one of the worst players in the league -- and he's made minimal progress since he arrived in Detroit.

If we keep Wiseman it should be as our 15th man on a minimum salary for a single year. No need to pay him anything more than that. I do think other teams would have interest in him possibly (unlike Hayes) but no one should/will pay him more than a minimum deal.

I understand that point, but he could get a minimum deal from anyone that could offer him more playing time and a spot at a starting C spot, hornets come to mind. I wouldn't give him more than one year unless the second year is a team option. I just don't want him to sign his qualifying offer because of we cant trade him without an extension or he losses his bird rights. Which eliminates trading him to a contender who are over the cap. It's about opportunity cost and asset management at the end of the day.

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[BDM22]

Negotiation rights cannot be traded in the NBA. The trade deadline was the final day of trade eligibility for Wiseman.



How so? Vanderbilt is a power forward who can't shoot. Isaac is a nutcase who can't stay healthy and also still hasn't established any pedigree as a shooter.



Why? He's been a complete disaster on the court in both of his seasons with the Pistons -- unequivocally one of the worst players in the league -- and he's made minimal progress since he arrived in Detroit.

If we keep Wiseman it should be as our 15th man on a minimum salary for a single year. No need to pay him anything more than that. I do think other teams would have interest in him possibly (unlike Hayes) but no one should/will pay him more than a minimum deal.

I understand that point, but he could get a minimum deal from anyone that could offer him more playing time and a spot at a starting C spot, hornets come to mind. I wouldn't give him more than one year unless the second year is a team option. I just don't want him to sign his qualifying offer because of we cant trade him without an extension or he losses his bird rights. Which eliminates trading him to a contender who are over the cap. It's about opportunity cost and asset management at the end of the day.

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James Wiseman has no trade value. If he did, you would have seen him traded at the deadline. If we're lucky, he'll just leave in the offseason and that will be that, but we definitely aren't getting anything for him.

[SuperBad]

I think it would be decent loss of assets by just letting Wiseman go, not him, but Kennard, for Bey, for 2nd rd picks for Wiseman. I think he might be worth 3/15 with a team option in year three. Duran gets hurt a lot so far, we will need a second BIG center, I think unless something good falls right into place, you just bring back wiseman on a 2-3 year deal as cheap as possible. Like Bagley, but as low as he will go.

[mattao313]

I think it would be decent loss of assets by just letting Wiseman go, not him, but Kennard, for Bey, for 2nd rd picks for Wiseman. I think he might be worth 3/15 with a team option in year three. Duran gets hurt a lot so far, we will need a second BIG center, I think unless something good falls right into place, you just bring back wiseman on a 2-3 year deal as cheap as possible. Like Bagley, but as low as he will go.

I disagree we should be using Stewart as the backup C we really need forwards as we have no real starting caliber forwards on the team.

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[theBigLip]

Wiseman really isn’t our issue. If he walks in the offseason, not a big deal. If we extend very cheaply, not a big deal either. I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

What is much more important is what we do with all our cap space. Whereas Wiseman is an end of bench guy, our cap room should provide us a couple of starters. Bridges? Harris? OG? There will be a few more names once we have teams losing in the first round, or not even making it through the play-in.

[Neptune]

Wiseman really isn’t our issue. If he walks in the offseason, not a big deal. If we extend very cheaply, not a big deal either. I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

What is much more important is what we do with all our cap space. Whereas Wiseman is an end of bench guy, our cap room should provide us a couple of starters. Bridges? Harris? OG? There will be a few more names once we have teams losing in the first round, or not even making it through the play-in.

Simple, trade our 2024 pick for Brandon Ingram, use the rest to sign Bridges and some decent role players.

Cade/Sasser
Ivey/Role Player
Ingram/Ausar
Bridges/Role Player
Duran/Stewart

[Canadafan]

Wiseman really isn’t our issue. If he walks in the offseason, not a big deal. If we extend very cheaply, not a big deal either. I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

What is much more important is what we do with all our cap space. Whereas Wiseman is an end of bench guy, our cap room should provide us a couple of starters. Bridges? Harris? OG? There will be a few more names once we have teams losing in the first round, or not even making it through the play-in.

Simple, trade our 2024 pick for Brandon Ingram, use the rest to sign Bridges and some decent role players.

Cade/Sasser
Ivey/Role Player
Ingram/Ausar
Bridges/Role Player
Duran/Stewart

If Pelicans would do that, yes please.
Seems like Bridges will stay with Charlotte, which im fine with.
I'd prefer to take on another forward thru trade into our cap space. Like Grant or Collins.
Still like the thought of saving Portlands cap sheet by taking on Brogdan and Grant. 2 vets that could really help us.

[vege]

I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

Yes it actually is a huge deal. We are losing games because of Wiseman. He is a huge net negative. The difference between an end of bench NBA player and Wiseman is insane. Muscala on/off and Wiseman on/off is like 15 points.

[Mr Peanut]

I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

Yes it actually is a huge deal. We are losing games because of Wiseman. He is a huge net negative. The difference between an end of bench NBA player and Wiseman is insane. Muscala on/off and Wiseman on/off is like 15 points.

I looked this up and the results are pretty insane (granted, only a small sample size for Muscala in his time here).

Muscala - on court +12.0, on/off +22.0
Wiseman - on court -14.6, on/off -7.4

This fits with the eye test where our bench unit looked so much better with Muscala in the middle over Wiseman. And JEIII reports Muscala was happy to stay but our FO/Monty told him we were going to play Wiseman instead, so if he wanted he could be released to go play elsewhere.

Apart from wanting to develop Wiseman (when it's pretty clear he is a bust and will likely never be a solid rotational player), I just can't fathom why we stopped playing Muscala and then let him go when he was so much better for our team.

[bstein14]

Marvin Bagley and the Wizards have lost 15 in a row. 5 more losses and Bagley will be part of two of the top 10 longest losing streaks of all-time. Right now the longest losing streak in their franchise history is 16 games so if they lose their next game they tie that record.

[buzzkilloton]

I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

Yes it actually is a huge deal. We are losing games because of Wiseman. He is a huge net negative. The difference between an end of bench NBA player and Wiseman is insane. Muscala on/off and Wiseman on/off is like 15 points.

This fits with the eye test where our bench unit looked so much better with Muscala in the middle over Wiseman. And JEIII reports Muscala was happy to stay but our FO/Monty told him we were going to play Wiseman instead, so if he wanted he could be released to go play elsewhere.

Apart from wanting to develop Wiseman (when it's pretty clear he is a bust and will likely never be a solid rotational player), I just can't fathom why we stopped playing Muscala and then let him go when he was so much better for our team.

Yeah Edwards mentioned this on his latest podcast. I assume Troy told Monty that Wiseman needs the minutes due to his obsession with the guy. Its gross how Troy puts no value on vets that play winning ball that help the young guys play better.

I remember when this happened some fans were painting it as Troy was doing Mus a solid to keep good relations. Not as much on here but other pistons talk boards. No it was simply Muscala would take Wisemans minutes he actually wanted to be here.

[Mr Peanut]

Marvin Bagley and the Wizards have lost 15 in a row. 5 more losses and Bagley will be part of two of the top 10 longest losing streaks of all-time. Right now the longest losing streak in their franchise history is 16 games so if they lose their next game they tie that record.

Yeah, there's a few people around who look at Bagley's raw stats and feel like we made a mistake trading him away, but the reality is he just doesn't really contribute to winning (when he's actually healthy for a consistent stretch which is rare).

[bstein14]

Marvin Bagley and the Wizards have lost 15 in a row. 5 more losses and Bagley will be part of two of the top 10 longest losing streaks of all-time. Right now the longest losing streak in their franchise history is 16 games so if they lose their next game they tie that record.

Yeah, there's a few people around who look at Bagley's raw stats and feel like we made a mistake trading him away, but the reality is he just doesn't really contribute to winning (when he's actually healthy for a consistent stretch which is rare).

He has a nice offensive skillset around the basket and when he's motivated he can be a decent rebounder but he 100% was a big part of the reason we've struggled on defense and he simply doesn't play winning basketball at this point.

[Snakebites]

Still glad Bagley’s gone.

Don’t be a sucker for empty stats.

[vege]

I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

Yes it actually is a huge deal. We are losing games because of Wiseman. He is a huge net negative. The difference between an end of bench NBA player and Wiseman is insane. Muscala on/off and Wiseman on/off is like 15 points.

I looked this up and the results are pretty insane (granted, only a small sample size for Muscala in his time here).

Muscala - on court +12.0, on/off +22.0
Wiseman - on court -14.6, on/off -7.4

This fits with the eye test where our bench unit looked so much better with Muscala in the middle over Wiseman. And JEIII reports Muscala was happy to stay but our FO/Monty told him we were going to play Wiseman instead, so if he wanted he could be released to go play elsewhere.

Apart from wanting to develop Wiseman (when it's pretty clear he is a bust and will likely never be a solid rotational player), I just can't fathom why we stopped playing Muscala and then let him go when he was so much better for our team.

This franchise is an absolute joke.

[buzzkilloton]

Still glad Bagley’s gone.

Don’t be a sucker for empty stats.

You would think after Andre Drummond people would get this.

[theBigLip]

I think the latter will actually happen, and maybe he grows into a rotational big. But again, it’s not that big of a deal.

Yes it actually is a huge deal. We are losing games because of Wiseman. He is a huge net negative. The difference between an end of bench NBA player and Wiseman is insane. Muscala on/off and Wiseman on/off is like 15 points.

https://craftednba.com/player-stats

If you look at BPM (box score plus minus), of course Wiseman is negative, as are half the players in the NBA. And of course Detroit players as a whole will be more negative than others since we’ve scored fewer points than our opponents.

That all being said, Wiseman is at -3.4 and Muscala is at -4.9. So I’m not sure what stats you’re looking at, but the ones I’m looking at say your last statement is wrong.

Stats help but are not the end all of player evaluation. The same player could have significantly different +/- depending on who he plays with (starters vs bench, etc).

And going back to my original point, Wiseman is still not that big of a deal. If you’re getting 10 mpg, how much does that really impact the final outcome? Not that much.

[ComboGuardCity]

Scenario: Pelicans get swept in the playoffs and Herb Jones continues
To get better

Trade:
1. Our 2024 pick + Stewart + filler + another first for Brandon Ingram

Cade
Ivey
Ingram
Ausar
Duren