Can Ausar and Duren play together in today’s NBA?

[zeebneeb]

The issue with Ansur is that he isn’t a fit with a lineup of weak shooters. We have a non shooting big in Duren and a guy who isn’t considered a three point shooter in Cade. Ansur would look better as a wing player with a team like Denver who has a big who doesn’t need to stay in the lane and can shot on the arch. The Ansur pick was a bad fit. We all knew when drafting that he wasn’t a three point threat and lacked shooting range/ability. The results are exactly what I expected. I don’t think that Mont is Coach Q level like everyone is making him out to be. The roster is bad with pieces that don’t fit. If we are saying Cade/Duren are the franchise building pieces, Ansur (and maybe Ivey too) need to be moved for pieces that fit. Simple as that.

I wouldn't be so quick to throw Cade and Ivey under the bus for shooting just yet. Both are starting to round into form when it comes to that part of their game;

Cade season- .340%
Ivey season- .340%

Cade last 9 games-.409%
Ivey last 9 games-.444%

I think both are going to be fine in the long run.

My comment was more about the fit of Ansur. I don’t see the fit with Duren. I’m looking for areas and who we can trade to improve the roster. I just don’t see the long term fit with Ansur and want to move him before value goes down.

Ausar needs to be part of an offense, that doesn't have him standing in a corner, but attacking the rim on cuts, and dribble penetration.

With that said, of he could hit just 32% of his three-point shots, it would open up everything for him, and more importantly his team.

He also needs to drastically improve his handle as well, so he's a threat on the close-out. Stewart may well be .398% shooter from deep, but players can close out hard, because he has no handle, and is no threat to drive, which effectively renders him useless.

Lots of people love to say "He has to shoot better." Which is fine, but if thats the only threat because they can't dribble or penetrate on even a basic level, it doesn't matter.

Love Ausar as a defender, and scrappy-do, but he's gotta improve his shooting/dribbling.

[DetroitDon15]

I wouldn't be so quick to throw Cade and Ivey under the bus for shooting just yet. Both are starting to round into form when it comes to that part of their game;

Cade season- .340%
Ivey season- .340%

Cade last 9 games-.409%
Ivey last 9 games-.444%

I think both are going to be fine in the long run.

My comment was more about the fit of Ansur. I don’t see the fit with Duren. I’m looking for areas and who we can trade to improve the roster. I just don’t see the long term fit with Ansur and want to move him before value goes down.

Ausar needs to be part of an offense, that doesn't have him standing in a corner, but attacking the rim on cuts, and dribble penetration.

With that said, of he could hit just 32% of his three-point shots, it would open up everything for him, and more importantly his team.

He also needs to drastically improve his handle as well, so he's a threat on the close-out. Stewart may well be .398% shooter from deep, but players can close out hard, because he has no handle, and is no threat to drive, which effectively renders him useless.

Lots of people love to say "He has to shoot better." Which is fine, but if thats the only threat because they can't dribble or penetrate on even a basic level, it doesn't matter.

Love Ausar as a defender, and scrappy-do, but he's gotta improve his shooting/dribbling.

I ageee that I like his D. The problem is with the lineup Detroit has that the 3 needs to be able to shoot threes.

[Kalamazoo317]

I ageee that I like his D. The problem is with the lineup Detroit has that the 3 needs to be able to shoot threes.

To be fair, that's true for 99% of forwards on 99% of teams. Only wings who are truly special elsewhere can survive without a credible outside shot these days. It's one reason I've been pushing "3 and D" mentality when looking at draft prospects. If you can't space, I'm not sure you can stay on the court.

[breezypeezy]

So Killian and Slow Stew can fail for multiple years, get bend over backward excuses for patience, and Auser is supposed to be deemed incapable, non-fitting piece after 30 games?

You've got a pretty selective memory of Killian's time here. And stew was our center, so it didn't matter as much if he couldn't shoot.

I dont think its selective memory to remember both of them as CORE to recent YEARS of lottery level team achievement. Nothing selective about that, they are both dumpster fires for multiple seasons now, its not debateable.

Auser on the other hand, could actually yet develop into something helpful , in a hypothetical, I wouldnt take Killian or slow Stew for Auser in trade.

All is said and done ship all 3 out for all I care, 3 win team, hopefully the franchise can sweep out as much garbage as possible.
But that garbage sweep should start with the guys that have been terrible for multiple seasons before we give up on the guy thats played 30 games.

[Vampirate]

I honestly don't think Ausar is going to shoot 15% from 3 for the rest of his career, so from an outside pov I voted yes.

[FloridaMan78]

To be clear, I don’t want to give up on Ausar. His potential is super high. I just don’t think you can have a functioning NBA team with two non shooters out there for extended periods of time together. So until Ausar is some sort of threat the coach needs to consciously consider that when it comes to playing time. You can still play Duren 30 mins and Ausar 25 mins. You just have to plan for it.

[Kalamazoo317]

I honestly don't think Ausar is going to shoot 15% from 3 for the rest of his career, so from an outside pov I voted yes.

I mean, sure, if his game changes, the answer changes. I was answering based on right now, though, not after 2-3 years of development.

[Vampirate]

I honestly don't think Ausar is going to shoot 15% from 3 for the rest of his career, so from an outside pov I voted yes.

I mean, sure, if his game changes, the answer changes. I was answering based on right now, though, not after 2-3 years of development.

My answer to that is who cares, get your top 5 pick, don't bring back Heyes and move on and figure it out from there.

Ausar
Cade
Duren
Ivey
Bojan

Should be your starting lineup regardless of results.

[BDM22]

I honestly don't think Ausar is going to shoot 15% from 3 for the rest of his career, so from an outside pov I voted yes.

I mean, sure, if his game changes, the answer changes. I was answering based on right now, though, not after 2-3 years of development.

My answer to that is who cares, get your top 5 pick, don't bring back Heyes and move on and figure it out from there.

Ausar
Cade
Duren
Ivey
Bojan

Should be your starting lineup regardless of results.

Yep. We're 3-32, why does it matter if it "works" today?! Nothing about this team works today!! No lineup "works". You put your core young players on the floor and allow them to develop since you're already going to lose 90% of the games you play by default.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the lineup you listed has played 4 TOTAL minutes together the entire season, so I'd like to at least see some proof that it's worse than what we currently are doing before just letting Ausar rot on the bench to feed minutes to Livers and Kevin Knox.

[FloridaMan78]

IMO big mins with Duren and Ausar on floor means Cade and Ivey will face a clogged paint and multiple double teams. I guess you could say that’ll make them better, but really it just doesn’t give us a good look at what it could become.

But again Ausar should never get under 20-25 mins every game. Not 8-11, WTH. Ivey should get 30 mins every night. We need to see what these guys can do.

[Mr Peanut]

Somewhat unrelated to the thread premise, but Duren has been a beast since coming back from injury.

14.5 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 2.3 apg on 71.4% FG and shooting 89.5% from the FT line.

His defense clearly needs work but he is improving overall.

[Piston Pete]

Ausar doesn’t fit for multiple reasons.

1) Duren - having two non-shooters (Ausar and Duren) on the floor at the same time is a fail for a league where shooting and spacing the floor are premiums.

2) Ivey and Cade - if guys can lag off Ausar and help fill the paint/inside, it helps limit the ability of Ivey or Cade to drive the lane. It clogs everything up.

[BDM22]

IMO big mins with Duren and Ausar on floor means Cade and Ivey will face a clogged paint and multiple double teams. I guess you could say that’ll make them better, but really it just doesn’t give us a good look at what it could become.

But again Ausar should never get under 20-25 mins every game. Not 8-11, WTH. Ivey should get 30 mins every night. We need to see what these guys can do.

They're playing with Duren and Livers now, so not really much of a change... Cade, Ivey, Bojan, Ausar, Duren is a lot different than Cade, Killian, Ausar, Stew, Duren.

BTW, Donovan Mitchell had the best and most efficient year of his career last year with 2 bigs that cannot shoot.

And the benefit Ausar and Duren have is that they're both so dangerous on the offensive glass (2 of the best at their positons) and on cuts that teams will still need to keep track of these guys. It's not like Killian who is such a non-threat in all aspects of offense that you can basically forget he's on the floor.

And yeah, the current alternative is the least efficient scorer in the entire league in Livers, so clearly Monty isn't going for guys that can hit shots lol

[Kalamazoo317]

I honestly don't think Ausar is going to shoot 15% from 3 for the rest of his career, so from an outside pov I voted yes.

I mean, sure, if his game changes, the answer changes. I was answering based on right now, though, not after 2-3 years of development.

My answer to that is who cares, get your top 5 pick, don't bring back Heyes and move on and figure it out from there.

Ausar
Cade
Duren
Ivey
Bojan

Should be your starting lineup regardless of results.

Sure, lets devote the season to development and then not use functional lineups. I'm not sure why people think that putting players in losing situations in losing environments is going to magically "develop" them into anything but losers.

When you're developing players, you absolutely should *not* be doing things regardless of results, IMO, or you're not developing anything worthwhile.

[Kalamazoo317]

IMO big mins with Duren and Ausar on floor means Cade and Ivey will face a clogged paint and multiple double teams. I guess you could say that’ll make them better, but really it just doesn’t give us a good look at what it could become.

But again Ausar should never get under 20-25 mins every game. Not 8-11, WTH. Ivey should get 30 mins every night. We need to see what these guys can do.

They're playing with Duren and Livers now, so not really much of a change... Cade, Ivey, Bojan, Ausar, Duren is a lot different than Cade, Killian, Ausar, Stew, Duren.

BTW, Donovan Mitchell had the best and most efficient year of his career last year with 2 bigs that cannot shoot.

And the benefit Ausar and Duren have is that they're both so dangerous on the offensive glass (2 of the best at their positons) and on cuts that teams will still need to keep track of these guys. It's not like Killian who is such a non-threat in all aspects of offense that you can basically forget he's on the floor.

And yeah, the current alternative is the least efficient scorer in the entire league in Livers, so clearly Monty isn't going for guys that can hit shots lol

Livers has sucked this season and I'm 100% ready to move on from him, but he's a lot more credible as a floor stretcher than Ausar right now. I would start Knox over either of them in that lineup, though.

[joedumars1]

I mean, sure, if his game changes, the answer changes. I was answering based on right now, though, not after 2-3 years of development.

My answer to that is who cares, get your top 5 pick, don't bring back Heyes and move on and figure it out from there.

Ausar
Cade
Duren
Ivey
Bojan

Should be your starting lineup regardless of results.

Sure, lets devote the season to development and then not use functional lineups. I'm not sure why people think that putting players in losing situations in losing environments is going to magically "develop" them into anything but losers.

When you're developing players, you absolutely should *not* be doing things regardless of results, IMO, or you're not developing anything worthwhile.

They’ve only played 4 mins all season together someone said. So I mean we don’t know if it’ll work or not. We did play killian/cade/ausar/stew/duren players would just leave Stewart wide open. So ausar can be that guy and the other 3 can actually create and shoot. Killian can’t do any of that. It’s worth a look imo. 3 wins.

[BDM22]

IMO big mins with Duren and Ausar on floor means Cade and Ivey will face a clogged paint and multiple double teams. I guess you could say that’ll make them better, but really it just doesn’t give us a good look at what it could become.

But again Ausar should never get under 20-25 mins every game. Not 8-11, WTH. Ivey should get 30 mins every night. We need to see what these guys can do.

They're playing with Duren and Livers now, so not really much of a change... Cade, Ivey, Bojan, Ausar, Duren is a lot different than Cade, Killian, Ausar, Stew, Duren.

BTW, Donovan Mitchell had the best and most efficient year of his career last year with 2 bigs that cannot shoot.

And the benefit Ausar and Duren have is that they're both so dangerous on the offensive glass (2 of the best at their positons) and on cuts that teams will still need to keep track of these guys. It's not like Killian who is such a non-threat in all aspects of offense that you can basically forget he's on the floor.

And yeah, the current alternative is the least efficient scorer in the entire league in Livers, so clearly Monty isn't going for guys that can hit shots lol

Livers has sucked this season and I'm 100% ready to move on from him, but he's a lot more credible as a floor stretcher than Ausar right now. I would start Knox over either of them in that lineup, though.

The chances that Knox is here when this team is good are very low. I'd play Ausar simply based on that. We need him to develop for this team to become anything, and that happens by playing. Not sure how many times I can emphasize that this team is 3-32.

Additionally, if you start Knox, you end up bringing Killian, Ausar, and Wiseman off the bench and that's a far worse disaster than having Ausar and Duren with legit scoring threats in Cade/Bojan/Ivey starting. Much better balance and no one can argue against the fact that Ausar was much more effective playing off of the starters. It's better to give Killian a couple of OK shooters (if Monty must play him) in Burks and Knox because he really only can drive and kick.

[MrBigShot]

If he can't hit a 3, no. Having one guy who can't hit a three is fine, but any more than that and it makes life much more difficult for Cade.

[BDM22]

If he can't hit a 3, no. Having one guy who can't hit a three is fine, but any more than that and it makes life much more difficult for Cade.

The season isn't about boosting Cade's stats and going 6-76 in the process, it's about developing the core players. If Cade is the franchise player we want him to be, he will make it work with 2 good rim-runners along with Ivey and Bojan next to him as Ausar develops his shot. There's a HUGE difference between that horrible lineup Monty started the season with that had Killian, Ausar, Stew, and Duren and a lineup with Ivey, Bojan, Ausar, and Duren which has seen the floor for a total of 4 minutes this season.

People seem to associate playing Ausar at all with those death lineups that lacked our #2 and 3 best scorers and also featured Killian Hayes. We've not actually seen the core guys play with Bojan because Monty is trash.

[MrBigShot]

If he can't hit a 3, no. Having one guy who can't hit a three is fine, but any more than that and it makes life much more difficult for Cade.

The season isn't about boosting Cade's stats and going 6-76 in the process, it's about developing the core players. If Cade is the franchise player we want him to be, he will make it work with 2 good rim-runners along with Ivey and Bojan next to him as Ausar develops his shot. There's a HUGE difference between that horrible lineup Monty started the season with that had Killian, Ausar, Stew, and Duren and a lineup with Ivey, Bojan, Ausar, and Duren which has seen the floor for a total of 4 minutes this season.

People seem to associate playing Ausar at all with those death lineups that lacked our #2 and 3 best scorers and also featured Killian Hayes. We've not actually seen the core guys play with Bojan because Monty is trash.

Oh don't get me wrong, if I was our head coach tomorrow Ausar would be getting ~28 mins a game minimum every night. He can work on his shot/mechanics in the off season. I'm speaking about in the future... at some point in the future Ausar gonna need to be at least capable of knocking down a three to keep the defense honest, otherwise it will limit him too much offensively.