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2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes

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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#461 » by zeebneeb » Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:37 am

bstein14 wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
I see. Thanks :)
Lots of decisions to make. Let everyone expire this summer and attempt to sign someone or use it in trades.
Trade some of them this deadline to take on long term deal.
What to do what to do
Pistons have the assets to get back the first from NY, AND to land a player like Markkanen, without giving up Cade/Duren/Ausar/Ivey. If Weaver wants, he can make it happen, but he's gonna be giving away an unprotected pick.

I'm at the point, seeing as how the team is in unprecedented territory, that bold moves absolutely have to be made.


A young all-star locked into a bargain deal for this year and next. I feel like he's the type of player that brings back 3 unprotected firsts and two pick swaps in a trade.
Sounds great, get it done. What else is Weaver gonna do with the picks? Suck forever? Eventually they have to become assets to improve, not to use year, after year, after year.

The team would flourish having a player like Markkanen at the 4. Go get it done.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#462 » by GreekAlex » Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:50 am

zeebneeb wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:Pistons have the assets to get back the first from NY, AND to land a player like Markkanen, without giving up Cade/Duren/Ausar/Ivey. If Weaver wants, he can make it happen, but he's gonna be giving away an unprotected pick.

I'm at the point, seeing as how the team is in unprecedented territory, that bold moves absolutely have to be made.


A young all-star locked into a bargain deal for this year and next. I feel like he's the type of player that brings back 3 unprotected firsts and two pick swaps in a trade.
Sounds great, get it done. What else is Weaver gonna do with the picks? Suck forever? Eventually they have to become assets to improve, not to use year, after year, after year.

The team would flourish having a player like Markkanen at the 4. Go get it done.


Not you, but many of the posters on here seem to believe they’re way better at talent evaluation than any NBA exec.

Any thoughts on a good buy-low candidate that’s more the value of Lauri when he was on the Bulls or Cavs?

This question is for everyone. Especially the know it alls :lol:
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#463 » by zeebneeb » Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:58 am

GreekAlex wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
A young all-star locked into a bargain deal for this year and next. I feel like he's the type of player that brings back 3 unprotected firsts and two pick swaps in a trade.
Sounds great, get it done. What else is Weaver gonna do with the picks? Suck forever? Eventually they have to become assets to improve, not to use year, after year, after year.

The team would flourish having a player like Markkanen at the 4. Go get it done.


Not you, but many of the posters on here seem to believe they’re way better at talent evaluation than any NBA exec.

Any thoughts on a good buy-low candidate that’s more the value of Lauri when he was on the Bulls or Cavs?

This question is for everyone. Especially the know it alls :lol:
Thats a great question. If anyone's got any thoughts. I would like to hear them as well.

The team needs a true threat from three, at the 4.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#464 » by bstein14 » Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:15 am

Pacers Jalen Smith is still just 23 and scoring an insanely efficient 10.1 PPG and 5.5 RPG in just 16.7 MPG. He's a player many people wanted us to sign instead of Bagley and he's been killing it for the Pacers at the bargain price of just $5 million per year. He has a player option he'll almost certainly opt out of this summer and his offensive skillset and great three point shooting makes him a potential breakout candidate IMO... especially if we could get him lots of open 3 point looks. He's currently 15th in the entire league in PER.

Boston's Kristas Porzingas was IMO a solid buy low target this past offseason (Boston didn't give up much to get him IMO) with Washington entering rebuild mode and his skillset would have been perfect between Ausar and Duren in that starting lineup.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#465 » by GreekAlex » Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:43 am

bstein14 wrote:Pacers Jalen Smith is still just 23 and scoring an insanely efficient 10.1 PPG and 5.5 RPG in just 16.7 MPG. He's a player many people wanted us to sign instead of Bagley and he's been killing it for the Pacers at the bargain price of just $5 million per year. He has a player option he'll almost certainly opt out of this summer and his offensive skillset and great three point shooting makes him a potential breakout candidate IMO... especially if we could get him lots of open 3 point looks. He's currently 15th in the entire league in PER.

Boston's Kristas Porzingas was IMO a solid buy low target this past offseason (Boston didn't give up much to get him IMO) with Washington entering rebuild mode and his skillset would have been perfect between Ausar and Duren in that starting lineup.


Is there any conflict with Monty being the coach that didn’t really play Jalen Smith in Phx?

I liked him too but he seems inconsistent when given more minutes.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#466 » by vege » Sun Nov 26, 2023 5:05 am

Stewart is flawed but he is a better player than Smith imo, Smith is better on offense, Stewart is better on defense.

https://craftednba.com/players/comparison?player1=jalen-smith&player2=isaiah-stewart
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#467 » by Crymson » Sun Nov 26, 2023 5:54 am

GreekAlex wrote:A big part of the roster construction is based on nothing being permanent yet. This is only Ivey and Duren's second season and for all intents and purposes Cade's second season too. The Joe Harris & Monte Morris trades were a miscalculation based on the desire to remain flexible but I'd take that over unmovable 3 or 4-year contracts.


Yes, it's still early in their careers. At the same time... it's the fourth season and everything is a mess. That's not normal, and it's because the management of the rebuild has not been particularly adroit (to say the least). It hasn't been incompetent, mind you, but it hasn't had the necessary successes either.

There's a lot of complaining about the reclamation projects but that's what you do when you're tanking. It's a good time to swing for the fences at a low cost since you're in development mode and not concerned with winning.


The issue isn't the reclamation projects, though the Wiseman trade was an extremely baffling move by any definition. Reclamation projects are well and good, and hopefully you get some successes, though Troy has now swung seven times and missed on every one of those (including the aforementioned trade of a rotational shooter for a sub-rotational fourth center).

The issue is that aside from Grant/Duren, Weaver has thus far had ZERO notable successes in acquiring meaningful long-term impact talent through any means outside of the high picks the lottery has delivered him, be that reclamation projects or otherwise.

16 games is very small in the grand scheme of things and Ivey has started the last 3 games so it only took 13 games to make that change. If that 13-game stretch helps Jaden become more efficient and mindful on defense, it was well worth the investment.


Ivey was sick for half of that time. Anyway, I'm not referring to Ivey. I'm referring to the insane starting lineup that deliberately fielded two non-shooters on the perimeter (three overall) and nowhere near enough shooting or spacing. It was guaranteed to fail, and fail it did, and make Cade's life far more difficult in the meantime for no reason that anyone has been able to ascertain (Monty certainly isn't talking).

The changes will come in the form of determining what to do with all of the expiring veterans at the trade deadline or in the off-season as well as hopefully moving on from Hayes. They have $63M in expirings not including Bojan's semi-guaranteed $20M.


Expiring deals don't inherently have value. They're useful only as trade fodder (the Pistons don't really have big assets they'd realistically be willing to send out at this point, not least because they can't trade a non-draft-night first-round pick until 2029) or as a means by which to take on bad contracts in exchange for assets (sound familiar?), and the latter very rarely brings in much.

Expiring deals can't be traded in the offseason.

No one wanted to win the past few seasons and everyone was on board the tank express. This is the first season they've made an attempt to be competitive. You can't just flip a switch. You can't cry about this being the 4th losing season under Weaver when everyone wanted to lose​ the first 3 seasons for higher draft picks.


There is no question of flipping a switch. The issue is that this team is not in any sort of fit state after four offseasons and three full seasons, which is itself because outside of Grant/Duren and some short-term veterans, Weaver has done very little of note outside of drafting in the top five three years in a row.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#468 » by MortSahlfan » Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:49 pm

Assuming we'll all be one healthy team one day.... If I could choose, this is how I'd distribute the minutes, since there's all sorts of line-ups, going small, etc.. Monty has been playing 9-10 guys, and with everyone back, I'll just pick 10 guys.

Cade-32
Duren-28
Stew-28
Ausar-26
Bojan-25
Ivey-24
Livers-24
Sasser-21
Bagley-16
Burks-16

If there's foul trouble, Killian, Umude (who I would play over Harris), and Wiseman.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#469 » by Kalamazoo317 » Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:27 pm

How many minutes have we been playing Cade so far? Cuz it’s clearly a few too many based on how he’s closing games.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#470 » by Canadafan » Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:35 pm

MortSahlfan wrote:Assuming we'll all be one healthy team one day.... If I could choose, this is how I'd distribute the minutes, since there's all sorts of line-ups, going small, etc.. Monty has been playing 9-10 guys, and with everyone back, I'll just pick 10 guys.

Cade-32
Duren-28
Stew-28
Ausar-26
Bojan-25
Ivey-24
Livers-24
Sasser-21
Bagley-16
Burks-16

If there's foul trouble, Killian, Umude (who I would play over Harris), and Wiseman.


If we're all healthy I'd have Morris backing up Cade. Sasser backing up Ivey. Stew backing up Duren. Burks backing up Ausur. Livers backing up Bojan. 30 minutes starters18 minutes backups. Bagley can wave a towel.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#471 » by Kalamazoo317 » Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:42 pm

Nearly 36 mins a game for Cade right now (answering my own question). We definitely need to get that down to 30-32
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#472 » by MortSahlfan » Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:20 pm

Canadafan wrote: Bagley can wave a towel.


And be recognized as a Top 5 towel waiver of all-time? Along with the 2nd most popular 'Marvin' in Detroit after Gaye.

My starting line-up would be to pair Cade with Monte for a few reasons. He's a vet. Best AST/TO ratio in 45 years. He has never averaged under 38% from 3, and is a good defender. People talk about vets for off-the-court, but it's the only way they'll learn on the court, with smart players who know what to do.. Bojan is a very smart player, too, and scored 22 and shot great without needing the ball, or even dribbling. One side step dribble was the most. And Monty said he's great on defense. I'll take him at his word since it's what he preaches.

Also, Ivey can be more of a focal point, handle more, and not have to worry about being a great floor spacer, which he isn't. Shooting isn't his thing, yet, but it isn't Ausar's, but he plays defense and rebounds well, so I'd have Ausar rounding the perimeter players with Cade and Monte, who also can guard the guards, while Cade guards the 2's his height.

Stew to me seems like an energy guy. This is another reason to pair him with Ivey - he's not looking for too many touches, and scores from left-overs, offensive rebounds, broken plays, cutting to the hoop. Duren is obviously starting, and I'd put in Bojan to start, unless Livers has a break-out season. I don't think this is his year yet, but he's a 2-way player, young, good guy, and hope he remains healthy.

I just wonder if Troy makes a trade... 13 losses in a row is too much, even with guys out.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#473 » by whitehops » Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:35 pm

i'm fine with cade getting as many minutes as he's getting because there's one thing that's almost never talked about in a player's development and that's conditioning. it's almost impossible to simulate in-game conditioning so the only way to improve it is to play the minutes.

another part is learning when/how to conserve your energy and still be impactful so you can be on the floor longer. lebron is the poster child for this.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#474 » by joedumars1 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:34 am

Only hope I have starters. I did expect another top 5 pick, but was hoping for competent ball

Cade
Ivey
Bojan
Ausar
Duren
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#475 » by Moses ShamMoses » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:48 pm

joedumars1 wrote:Only hope I have starters. I did expect another top 5 pick, but was hoping for competent ball

Cade
Ivey
Bojan
Ausar
Duren


Totally. I like that starting lineup. Beef Stew needs to be a bench player. I never was fooled by him being more than an energy bench big. Now Weaver has like 40M tied up in bench-level bigs lol what a dolt
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#476 » by Neptune » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:05 pm

Think it might be a good idea to actually run a smaller rotation. Maybe with only 8 or 9 players. When it come to the guards, at the moment, we should only run a 3-guard rotation of Cade/Ivey/Sasser
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#477 » by TPA » Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:38 pm

I'm looking at NBA.com stats/lineups/advanced stats. It shows that the Pistons have played a 4-man lineup including Cunningham/Ivey/Duren/Thompson for a total of 2 games and 35 minutes all season. Can this be true?!?! In limited minutes, that combination shows a +16.7 NetRating.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?DateFrom=11%2F01%2F2023&DateTo=11%2F28%2F2023&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612765&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#478 » by MortSahlfan » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:02 pm

Stew at 15m/yr isn't that much. Some guys get that and contribute nothing. Some guys get paid more and do less (Joe Harris).

So which free agent will we go after this off-season? As long as he's a 2-way player, SIGN HIM. We'll trade the other guys for whatever. Let's just hope Weaver doesn't go after another big man without giving one up.
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#479 » by Canadafan » Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:11 pm

TPA wrote:I'm looking at NBA.com stats/lineups/advanced stats. It shows that the Pistons have played a 4-man lineup including Cunningham/Ivey/Duren/Thompson for a total of 2 games and 35 minutes all season. Can this be true?!?! In limited minutes, that combination shows a +16.7 NetRating.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?DateFrom=11%2F01%2F2023&DateTo=11%2F28%2F2023&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612765&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN


Sounds about right
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Re: 2023-2024 Rotation/Minutes 

Post#480 » by joedumars1 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:44 pm

Canadafan wrote:
TPA wrote:I'm looking at NBA.com stats/lineups/advanced stats. It shows that the Pistons have played a 4-man lineup including Cunningham/Ivey/Duren/Thompson for a total of 2 games and 35 minutes all season. Can this be true?!?! In limited minutes, that combination shows a +16.7 NetRating.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?DateFrom=11%2F01%2F2023&DateTo=11%2F28%2F2023&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612765&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=MIN


Sounds about right

That’s what sucks so much. Seems Monty could be losing the team or close( or just fans overreacting making us/me feel it’s close). Really sucks, I’m hoping and waiting for the

Cade
Ivey
Bojan/ausar
Ausar/bojan
Duren

Lineup, that should be the ticket to developing or guys and moving in the right direction. Duren unfortunately seems to have injury bug tho. Also not sure where the players heads will be the time this lineup happens

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