How much weaver offer Tobias Harris?

[theBigLip]

No one in that starting lineup play any kind of defense.

I don't think this group can be fixed. I think we should burn the house down and start again. This was a failure of a rebuild.

Just fire everyone and start from the scratch before Weaver do something stupid like giving Tobias a long term deal and trading for Zach LaVine. Those moves would be crippling.

This was not a failure rebuild. We have 5 young players on rookie contracts and another on a reasonable extension. We have 2 more players that we just traded for that are legit rotation players. That leaves us 7 open roster spots, over $60M+ in cap space and a top 5 pick this summer. You may not like how we got here but are in a good spot. Hardly a failure.

You are also just piling on as if Weaver has already made a mistake by overspending on Tobias or LaVine. One of the reasons the rebuild hasn’t been a failure is because Weaver has NOT made moves like that. That is just a made up scenario by you.

One could argue he’s maneuvered us into a position where we more or less have no choice but to overpay.

Our BEST case scenario is what the Rockets did this year.

Detroit always has to overpay. Nothing new about that.

[Snakebites]

This was not a failure rebuild. We have 5 young players on rookie contracts and another on a reasonable extension. We have 2 more players that we just traded for that are legit rotation players. That leaves us 7 open roster spots, over $60M+ in cap space and a top 5 pick this summer. You may not like how we got here but are in a good spot. Hardly a failure.

You are also just piling on as if Weaver has already made a mistake by overspending on Tobias or LaVine. One of the reasons the rebuild hasn’t been a failure is because Weaver has NOT made moves like that. That is just a made up scenario by you.

One could argue he’s maneuvered us into a position where we more or less have no choice but to overpay.

Our BEST case scenario is what the Rockets did this year.

Detroit always has to overpay. Nothing new about that.

Yes. Which (along with the weak FA class and the decline of the FA in general) are EXACTLY why we shouldn’t have pushed all of our chips in on free agency this offseason.

[theBigLip]

One could argue he’s maneuvered us into a position where we more or less have no choice but to overpay.

Our BEST case scenario is what the Rockets did this year.

Detroit always has to overpay. Nothing new about that.

Yes. Which (along with the weak FA class and the decline of the FA in general) are EXACTLY why we shouldn’t have pushed all of our chips in on free agency this offseason.

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

[Snakebites]

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

True in theory but we just haven’t seen it in practice.

[oldncreaky]

Detroit always has to overpay. Nothing new about that.

Yes. Which (along with the weak FA class and the decline of the FA in general) are EXACTLY why we shouldn’t have pushed all of our chips in on free agency this offseason.

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

[vege]

Yes. Which (along with the weak FA class and the decline of the FA in general) are EXACTLY why we shouldn’t have pushed all of our chips in on free agency this offseason.

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

Weaver didn't chose to use cap space next offseason. He wasn't competent enough to do anything with our cap space untill now, and now he will probably destroy our future because he have to do something.

Weaver have been using our cap space in trades. The guys he decided to acquire and reportedly tried for a few years are Joe Harris, Nerlens Noel (and Alec Burks) and Evan Fournier. He is inept.

17 win season followed by a 8 win season and people still refuse to see it.

[theBigLip]

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

Weaver didn't chose to use cap space next offseason. He wasn't competent enough to do anything with our cap space untill now, and now he will probably destroy our future because he have to do something.

Weaver have been using our cap space in trades. The guys he decided to acquire and reportedly tried for a few years are Joe Harris, Nerlens Noel (and Alec Burks) and Evan Fournier. He is inept.

17 win season followed by a 8 win season and people still refuse to see it.

Weaver DID chose to use our cap space this year. That’s why he only used it for 1 year deals last off season.

We also have a lot of games left so it isn’t accurate calling us an 8 win team. Do you refer to Boston as a 43 win team? Probably not.

[Canadafan]

Yes. Which (along with the weak FA class and the decline of the FA in general) are EXACTLY why we shouldn’t have pushed all of our chips in on free agency this offseason.

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

What do we think the chances are we could poach OG? Not likely correct?

[Canadafan]

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

Weaver didn't chose to use cap space next offseason. He wasn't competent enough to do anything with our cap space untill now, and now he will probably destroy our future because he have to do something.

Weaver have been using our cap space in trades. The guys he decided to acquire and reportedly tried for a few years are Joe Harris, Nerlens Noel (and Alec Burks) and Evan Fournier. He is inept.

17 win season followed by a 8 win season and people still refuse to see it.

Weaver DID chose to use our cap space this year. That’s why he only used it for 1 year deals last off season.

We also have a lot of games left so it isn’t accurate calling us an 8 win team. Do you refer to Boston as a 43 win team? Probably not.

So much negativity eh BigLip? Lol
I'm with you, I think we're in good shape going into this summer.
I like Duren Stew Ausur Cade Ivey Sasser Grimes Fontecchio.
We add our top5 pick.
We add 2 players with our cap space.
That's 10 rotation players as well as our draft pick to try to hit on for our future.
Things have been horrible this year(as well as the past decade basically ) but I believe we're in a good spot now going forward.
Even without the cap space we could just add our lottery pick and run it back with my aforementioned 8guys and I'd still be hopeful for next year and going forward.
My main concern has been our coach so hopefully he figures it out soon

[bstein14]

We should have went out and gotten Brunson when we had the chance. He's a clear max guy now making less than max money. He was reportedly a target for us but we helped the Knicks clear cap space to sign him instead of trying to sign him ourselves.

[oldncreaky]

That’s certainly one way to look at it. I think we can all agree that free agency has permanently changed. We’re not shopping for AllStars anymore - they get maxed out by their existing teams. So free agents will be more middle/lower tier players going forward.

Cap space is still valuable.
1. Trades - there are always deals for teams trying to get their cap numbers down and have to shed salary. There are always opportunities if you have cap space.
2. Getting medium level players at discount prices - a team needs to be patient, but there are only so many teams w cap space, so paying over the MLE to players who didn’t get signed by the capped teams is a good opportunity.
3. There are still RFAs like OG that we can tender offers to. It’s win-win. We either get a young star or we force their teams to max them out. Need cap space to do that.

So this offseason Weaver obviously has to be on the phone working possible trades, and look for those deals in FA.

I agree with snakebites that this looks like a weak FA class and therefore it is a bit strange that Weaver chose to lean into cap space this year.

It will make a little more sense if Weaver uses it for trades. The new CBA makes things much more difficult for teams above the second apron, and I can see the possibility of a hard-capped team bouncing out of the playoffs and looking to get out of some contracts -- and the other team's problem is Detroit's opportunity.

But yeah, other than throwing the bag at UFA Anunoby, I don't really see a FA I want to sign for more than $20M aav

What do we think the chances are we could poach OG? Not likely correct?

Pretty small

But unless there is a great trade to use the cap space on, the downside to making a big offer to OG is small, and it will force NYK's hand a bit too

[Cowology]

We should have went out and gotten Brunson when we had the chance. He's a clear max guy now making less than max money. He was reportedly a target for us but we helped the Knicks clear cap space to sign him instead of trying to sign him ourselves.

The board was split on Brunson that whole year. I was one of the guys who liked him, but didn't wanna overpay. But then he showed out in the playoffs that year and at that point it was pretty clear the dude was worth the money.

[theBigLip]

We should have went out and gotten Brunson when we had the chance. He's a clear max guy now making less than max money. He was reportedly a target for us but we helped the Knicks clear cap space to sign him instead of trying to sign him ourselves.

The board was split on Brunson that whole year. I was one of the guys who liked him, but didn't wanna overpay. But then he showed out in the playoffs that year and at that point it was pretty clear the dude was worth the money.

Brunson would have been great, but I think he was going to the Knicks no matter what. Knicks are doing a great rebuild as well, which is why we need to force them to max OG.

[theBigLip]

Weaver didn't chose to use cap space next offseason. He wasn't competent enough to do anything with our cap space untill now, and now he will probably destroy our future because he have to do something.

Weaver have been using our cap space in trades. The guys he decided to acquire and reportedly tried for a few years are Joe Harris, Nerlens Noel (and Alec Burks) and Evan Fournier. He is inept.

17 win season followed by a 8 win season and people still refuse to see it.

Weaver DID chose to use our cap space this year. That’s why he only used it for 1 year deals last off season.

We also have a lot of games left so it isn’t accurate calling us an 8 win team. Do you refer to Boston as a 43 win team? Probably not.

So much negativity eh BigLip? Lol
I'm with you, I think we're in good shape going into this summer.
I like Duren Stew Ausur Cade Ivey Sasser Grimes Fontecchio.
We add our top5 pick.
We add 2 players with our cap space.
That's 10 rotation players as well as our draft pick to try to hit on for our future.
Things have been horrible this year(as well as the past decade basically ) but I believe we're in a good spot now going forward.
Even without the cap space we could just add our lottery pick and run it back with my aforementioned 8guys and I'd still be hopeful for next year and going forward.
My main concern has been our coach so hopefully he figures it out soon

Yes, the negativity goes over the top a bit. Why spend all day talking about Hayes when you could talk about Duren? Why talk about Harris when you could talk about 2024 opportunities with $60M+? Certainly others have a different perspective

[Kalamazoo317]

We should have went out and gotten Brunson when we had the chance. He's a clear max guy now making less than max money. He was reportedly a target for us but we helped the Knicks clear cap space to sign him instead of trying to sign him ourselves.

The board was split on Brunson that whole year. I was one of the guys who liked him, but didn't wanna overpay. But then he showed out in the playoffs that year and at that point it was pretty clear the dude was worth the money.

Brunson would have been great, but I think he was going to the Knicks no matter what. Knicks are doing a great rebuild as well, which is why we need to force them to max OG.

Yeah, I don't agree with the premise that we ever had a chance to get Brunson. Knicks had him locked up before he became a free agent. Only other team that had a real shot at him was Dallas, if they'd extended him before his breakout.

[Cowology]

The board was split on Brunson that whole year. I was one of the guys who liked him, but didn't wanna overpay. But then he showed out in the playoffs that year and at that point it was pretty clear the dude was worth the money.

Brunson would have been great, but I think he was going to the Knicks no matter what. Knicks are doing a great rebuild as well, which is why we need to force them to max OG.

Yeah, I don't agree with the premise that we ever had a chance to get Brunson. Knicks had him locked up before he became a free agent. Only other team that had a real shot at him was Dallas, if they'd extended him before his breakout.

Yeah, we never had a shot. But Dallas certainly did and I'm guessing they are regretting that decision. Brunson over Kyrie all day, every day.

[Kalamazoo317]

I dunno. We never get this version of Brunson playing alongside Luka is the thing.

Which, of course, begs the question of whether Cade/Ivey are the same as so many other pairings (Luka/Brunson, Fox/Haliburton, Sexton/Garland, Mitchell/Garland) where they're just better if they're split up? If so, I'd rather go the Haliburton route than the Brunson one and get something in a trade for one of them before they just leave.

[Canadafan]

We should have went out and gotten Brunson when we had the chance. He's a clear max guy now making less than max money. He was reportedly a target for us but we helped the Knicks clear cap space to sign him instead of trying to sign him ourselves.

Pretty sure we tried to sign him and he wanted Knicks.
We made out alright in that deal anyways

On a fun side note, looks like we're keeping Fournier https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-intel-a-near-trade-deadline-deal-and-buyout-market-updates/

[Crymson]

I like Duren Stew Ausur Cade Ivey Sasser Grimes Fontecchio.

Sorry to correct you on this, but it's Ausar rather than Ausur.

We add our top5 pick.

Weak draft.

We add 2 players with our cap space.

Extremely weak free agent class.

That's 10 rotation players as well as our draft pick to try to hit on for our future.

Basically everything is riding on development.

Things have been horrible this year(as well as the past decade basically ) but I believe we're in a good spot now going forward. Even without the cap space we could just add our lottery pick and run it back with my aforementioned 8guys and I'd still be hopeful for next year and going forward. My main concern has been our coach so hopefully he figures it out soon

We have Monty Williams. He's enough on his own, in his current state -- namely a complete and utter, unmitigated nightmare of a coach -- to ensure that things are unlikely to go well at all.

I don't think figuring it out is an operative concept here. The Pistons could replace him with a hire right off the street and that person would be unlikely to make even half the mistakes Monty does. He's been beyond simply awful. Coaching this bad is only rarely seen in professional sports. It's almost comical.

[buzzkilloton]

The board was split on Brunson that whole year. I was one of the guys who liked him, but didn't wanna overpay. But then he showed out in the playoffs that year and at that point it was pretty clear the dude was worth the money.

Brunson would have been great, but I think he was going to the Knicks no matter what. Knicks are doing a great rebuild as well, which is why we need to force them to max OG.

Yeah, I don't agree with the premise that we ever had a chance to get Brunson. Knicks had him locked up before he became a free agent. Only other team that had a real shot at him was Dallas, if they'd extended him before his breakout.

Yeah their are still some guys who want to play in the NY big market esp compared to playing in Detroit.

Its the same with OG by the way. I see Biglip mentioning him above and have seen some other fans mention him here as a target. Its not happening. NY went after him already knowing hes going to resign there hes not coming to Detroit. Even if NY will only offer him the 40mill per and we go to the max 45mill per the extra value of being in the NY market where he wants to be at on a rising winning team is worth quite alot.

"What’s next for New York? The Knicks didn’t land Anunoby without an understanding of his own financial considerations. Anunoby held meetings with several agencies this past offseason when he decided to leave Klutch Sports, telling potential representation he was interested in a larger offensive role that would be commensurate with a salary figure in the ballpark of $40 million in average annual value, league sources told Yahoo Sports. However, Anunoby did leave those potential agents with the impression he would be willing to accept a smaller figure if he were to have landed in New York, sources said. And it’s relevant to note the Indiana product did ultimately sign with CAA, which has deep connections to New York leadership."

https://sports.yahoo.com/what-the-og-anunoby-trade-means-for-the-knicks-and-raptors-190440377.html