Will Gores really hire a new Head of Basketball Operations? (final say on all moves)

[MotownMadness]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Dumars is still mad lol

[BDM22]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Yeah, I feel like JJ's trajectory as a podcast/TV analyst makes it such that he'd probably only take a front office gig or coaching job if he was REALLY passionate about wanting to go down that route and show he could do that. It kinda seems like it would be a bad decision to me. He's cut out a nice niche for himself in the media world. Throwing that out to try to join this garbage fire seems unwise lol

[Snakebites]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Yeah, I feel like JJ's trajectory as a podcast/TV analyst makes it such that he'd probably only take a front office gig or coaching job if he was REALLY passionate about wanting to go down that route and show he could do that. It kinda seems like it would be a bad decision to me. He's cut out a nice niche for himself in the media world. Throwing that out to try to join this garbage fire seems unwise lol

Yeah, I'm surprised he has any interest either.

He's definitely on record saying he wants to coach though.

Not sure he'd want a FO job though.

[BDM22]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Yeah, I feel like JJ's trajectory as a podcast/TV analyst makes it such that he'd probably only take a front office gig or coaching job if he was REALLY passionate about wanting to go down that route and show he could do that. It kinda seems like it would be a bad decision to me. He's cut out a nice niche for himself in the media world. Throwing that out to try to join this garbage fire seems unwise lol

Yeah, I'm surprised he has any interest either.

He's definitely on record saying he wants to coach though.

Not sure he'd want a FO job though.

Probably having his name thrown into these discussions and him being open to it makes his $$$ negotiations with ESPN better and keeps his name out there in the FO/coaching discussion if the right gig were to come along.

[joedumars1]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Dumars is still mad lol

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

[Snakebites]

In theory JJ could soon be making more from his podcast with LeBron than what we'd offer him to be the GM of the franchise. I doubt he has interest in coming to run Detroit.

Jalen Rose is an interesting name who loves Detroit but its almost like hiring a former player if things go south you end up ruining that relationship like we saw with Dumars.

Dumars is still mad lol

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

[JNewton]

Dumars is still mad lol

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, if anything Dumars got an exceedingly long rope. He was arguably the worst GM in the league from 2009 to the end of his tenure in 2014. There was some extenuating circumstances like the payroll freeze when Karen Davidson was trying to sell and then Gores' onboarding, but 5 years is still a long time. I've always been a little surprised by Joe's seeming lack of self-awareness in that regard - he seems like a pretty cerebral guy, surely he was aware his job performance in that time frame warranted his removal.

[Snakebites]

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, if anything Dumars got an exceedingly long rope. He was arguably the worst GM in the league from 2009 to the end of his tenure in 2014. There was some extenuating circumstances like the payroll freeze when Karen Davidson was trying to sell and then Gores' onboarding, but 5 years is still a long time. I've always been a little surprised by Joe's seeming lack of self-awareness in that regard - he seems like a pretty cerebral guy, surely he was aware his job performance in that time frame warranted his removal.

Plenty of examples of smart people not recognizing their own shortcomings. Nobody is immune from ego.

[BDM22]

Dumars is still mad lol

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, I tend to think a lot of the good parts of the 'Going to Work' era were put together with John Hammond having a huge influence.

Pretty sure it was the same year that Hammond left for Milwaukee (where he drafted Giannis and robbed Dumars of Middleton) that Joe D decided to trade Chauncey for AI and subsequently use the cap space the way he did. Now Hammond is in Orlando and they've turned it around as well.

What we've done since firing Joe doesn't mean that firing Joe was a bad idea. He totally earned that lol

[oldncreaky]

Dumars is still mad lol

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

IIRC John Hammond was Joe D's assistant GM, and left the organisation for the Milwaukee GM job before Chauncey was traded.

The last half of Joe Dumars time was a disaster that made SVG look solid. After Hammond left, we had the "all shooting guards" team of Iverson-Hamilton-Stuckey-Gordon-Afflalo, the Charlie V and Josh Smith signings, building around the Drummond-Jackson core, the revolving door on the head coach, no draft successes to note other than Middleton who was traded for a bag of chips . . .

We're closing in on 2 decades of ineptitude

At least it could have been worse: we could have hires Zeke!

[Snakebites]

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, I tend to think a lot of the good parts of the 'Going to Work' era were put together with John Hammond having a huge influence.

Pretty sure it was the same year that Hammond left for Milwaukee (where he drafted Giannis and robbed Dumars of Middleton) that Joe D decided to trade Chauncey for AI and subsequently use the cap space the way he did. Now Hammond is in Orlando and they've turned it around as well.

What we've done since firing Joe doesn't mean that firing Joe was a bad idea. He totally earned that lol

There’s a little bit of revisionist history with the Middleton thing.

The Bucks had no idea what they were getting. They originally wanted Kyle Singler but we said no.

That doesn’t excuse Dumars but it does give less credit to Hammond on that one.

Dumars should get credit for building the championship team. But it can be argued he didn’t make a single good move post 2005.

[JNewton]

Yeah, I tend to think a lot of the good parts of the 'Going to Work' era were put together with John Hammond having a huge influence.

Pretty sure it was the same year that Hammond left for Milwaukee (where he drafted Giannis and robbed Dumars of Middleton) that Joe D decided to trade Chauncey for AI and subsequently use the cap space the way he did. Now Hammond is in Orlando and they've turned it around as well.

What we've done since firing Joe doesn't mean that firing Joe was a bad idea. He totally earned that lol

The timing of Hammond leaving to Milwaukee and Joe's performance decline was always something that struck me. It's a big reason why I'd be bullish on Hammond as a POBO candidate, although it doesn't strike me as particularly likely between his age and why would be want to leave Orlando for Detroit (between the weather and dumpster fire of a situation he'd be inheriting.) But if Gores backs up a Monty-style Brinks truck payday, who knows?

[oldncreaky]

Looked it up. John Hammond became the Milwaukee GM on April 11, 2008.

I'm hard pressed to find a move Joe made after that date that I like, and quite a few that were flat out atrocious.

[Snakebites]

Looked it up. John Hammond became the Milwaukee GM on April 11, 2008.

I'm hard pressed to find a move Joe made after that date that I like, and quite a few that were flat out atrocious.

I’m not sure there’s a move I like beyond signing Dice to the MLE in 2004.

We were good from 2005-2008 largely because that core we assembled between 2000 and 2004 was good, young, and most importantly healthy. I never thought we did a very good job getting depth behind that core after we won a ring, outside of Dice.

[BDM22]

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, I tend to think a lot of the good parts of the 'Going to Work' era were put together with John Hammond having a huge influence.

Pretty sure it was the same year that Hammond left for Milwaukee (where he drafted Giannis and robbed Dumars of Middleton) that Joe D decided to trade Chauncey for AI and subsequently use the cap space the way he did. Now Hammond is in Orlando and they've turned it around as well.

What we've done since firing Joe doesn't mean that firing Joe was a bad idea. He totally earned that lol

There’s a little bit of revisionist history with the Middleton thing.

The Bucks had no idea what they were getting. They originally wanted Kyle Singler but we said no.

That doesn’t excuse Dumars but it does give less credit to Hammond on that one.

Dumars should get credit for building the championship team. But it can be argued he didn’t make a single good move post 2005.

That's fair. I didn't know about the Singler stuff. Even if Hammond is just lucky in asking for Middleton from Joe, it appears he took his luck with him to Milwaukee and Orlando and we were left with nothing for the next 2 decades

[Snakebites]

Yeah, I tend to think a lot of the good parts of the 'Going to Work' era were put together with John Hammond having a huge influence.

Pretty sure it was the same year that Hammond left for Milwaukee (where he drafted Giannis and robbed Dumars of Middleton) that Joe D decided to trade Chauncey for AI and subsequently use the cap space the way he did. Now Hammond is in Orlando and they've turned it around as well.

What we've done since firing Joe doesn't mean that firing Joe was a bad idea. He totally earned that lol

There’s a little bit of revisionist history with the Middleton thing.

The Bucks had no idea what they were getting. They originally wanted Kyle Singler but we said no.

That doesn’t excuse Dumars but it does give less credit to Hammond on that one.

Dumars should get credit for building the championship team. But it can be argued he didn’t make a single good move post 2005.

That's fair. I didn't know about the Singler stuff. Even if Hammond is just lucky in asking for Middleton from Joe, it appears he took his luck with him to Milwaukee and Orlando and we were left with nothing for the next 2 decades

Hammond is an excellent executive. One of the best in the business for years and years.

But fortune always plays a part.

[oldncreaky]

Looked it up. John Hammond became the Milwaukee GM on April 11, 2008.

I'm hard pressed to find a move Joe made after that date that I like, and quite a few that were flat out atrocious.

I’m not sure there’s a move I like beyond signing Dice to the MLE in 2004.

We were good from 2005-2008 largely because that core we assembled between 2000 and 2004 was good, young, and most importantly healthy. I never thought we did a very good job getting depth behind that core after we won a ring, outside of Dice.

Looked through Joe Dumras' transaction history

The drafting was defensible, maybe average. Drummond was solid at 9, but the NBA game changed around him. KCP was good. Some decent hits in the second round who mostly worked out for other teams.

But yeah, the FA signings after McDyess were either confusing, questionable, bad, or flat out atrocious. And the coaches . . .

[Snakebites]

Looked it up. John Hammond became the Milwaukee GM on April 11, 2008.

I'm hard pressed to find a move Joe made after that date that I like, and quite a few that were flat out atrocious.

I’m not sure there’s a move I like beyond signing Dice to the MLE in 2004.

We were good from 2005-2008 largely because that core we assembled between 2000 and 2004 was good, young, and most importantly healthy. I never thought we did a very good job getting depth behind that core after we won a ring, outside of Dice.

Looked through Joe Dumras' transaction history

The drafting was defensible, maybe average. Drummond was solid at 9, but the NBA game changed around him. KCP was good. Some decent hits in the second round who mostly worked out for other teams.

But yeah, the FA signings after McDyess were either confusing, questionable, bad, or flat out atrocious. And the coaches . . .

To me you can’t look at drafting by viewing individual picks. Even bad picks are defensible at an individual level.

Gotta look at the aggregate. He didn’t bring us a single star. None of his draft picks hit with us.

[Sheeeeed]

Sadly he might have a point. What’s our record since his firing? Lol

I keep having to address this.

Dumars wasn’t just our last good GM. He was also the first in a long chain of bad ones. This decline was initially brought on by his poor decisions.

We didn’t do a good job replacing him but moving on from Joe D was 100 percent necessary.

Yeah, if anything Dumars got an exceedingly long rope. He was arguably the worst GM in the league from 2009 to the end of his tenure in 2014. There was some extenuating circumstances like the payroll freeze when Karen Davidson was trying to sell and then Gores' onboarding, but 5 years is still a long time. I've always been a little surprised by Joe's seeming lack of self-awareness in that regard - he seems like a pretty cerebral guy, surely he was aware his job performance in that time frame warranted his removal.

The payroll freeze is no good excuse though. He still put the team in a position where his mistakes needed to be corrected during the freeze. Those 5 years were self inflicted and deserved to go, and Karen Davidson gets unnecessarily vilified over it.

[MortSahlfan]

If you go look back at all the NBA lottery picks, most seem to be busts (which is why I prefer trading them for a proven player)