Pistons rebuild farther away than what people think?

[Snakebites]

There’s no need to extend Cade - wait a year and keep flexibility.

Just like there was no need to extend Stewart last year….

True in theory but probably not in reality.

[theBigLip]

Count me in the crazy crowd

I like BStein's post on this. There are many steps to become an elite playoff team. We're still taking baby steps. What does a restart on the rebuild even look like?

Easy.

It starts by hiring a head of basketball operations that then lets go of the current management chain and hires their own. i.e. everyone under Gores / him is gone. Donezo. One that takes an actual objective view of what we have and makes hard cuts where they are needed.

A lot of the problems we've faced up to this point have been a reluctance to move on from failed experiments and/or realistically acknowledge deficiencies of players that we have. I mean looking back now it's absolutely laughable how the current GM and coach thought that our roster heading into the season had any real shot of competing given how badly it was constructed.

Even before that the flat out refusal to dump some of our players that actually had value even when they really didn't serve much of a purpose to us (e.g. Bojan last year) is super damaging given what we could have gotten back vs. what we did.

So yeah. In the crazy crowd you are.

So I posted earlier in this thread - yes, fire everyone, but what does the new regime do? That’s really what I was asking. Do you just trade away the roster for 2nd round picks? Do you keep anyone? What does the rebuild really look like?

[JNewton]

The real question for me is how long before we're good enough to win a playoff game.

I still think that zero of these players will be on the team when Pistons win a series

I’m not convinced any of the players currently on the roster will still be active players in the league on any team. The Pistons are that far away from meaningful contention.

[theBigLip]

The real question for me is how long before we're good enough to win a playoff game.

I still think that zero of these players will be on the team when Pistons win a series

I’m not convinced any of the players currently on the roster will still be active players in the league on any team. The Pistons are that far away from meaningful contention.

That’s an opinion. Here’s mine:
Cade All Star
Fontecchio Starter
Thompson Starter
Duren Starter
Stewart Rotation player
Ivey Rotation player

We differ quite a bit

[Snakebites]

Seriously, anyone who thinks this team is close to anything meaningful needs to tune into some playoff games.

Even the play-in games between the 9/10 teams were so much more impressive than us.

Be open to moving everyone and everything.

[thesack12]

Seriously, anyone who thinks this team is close to anything meaningful needs to tune into some playoff games.

Even the play-in games between the 9/10 teams were so much more impressive than us.

Be open to moving everyone and everything.

So much this.

Anybody that thinks otherwise are either naive, in denial, or wearing the most extreme pair of rose colored glasses in existence.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

There’s no need to extend Cade - wait a year and keep flexibility.

Just like there was no need to extend Stewart last year….

True in theory but probably not in reality.

See Maxey, Tyrese

[Snakebites]

There’s no need to extend Cade - wait a year and keep flexibility.

Just like there was no need to extend Stewart last year….

True in theory but probably not in reality.

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

True in theory but probably not in reality.

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

And if he is, all flexibility is out the door. This 14 win team is built for battle.

[Snakebites]

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

And if he is, all flexibility is out the door. This 14 win team is built for battle.

The flexibility to do what? Let him walk? We won’t have major cap space next year regardless unless we do what we did this past offseason again.

[vege]

We could be a play in team next season, if we were open to trade everyone and everything and commit to build around Cade.

Asking price for Murray was Ivey and Ausar. Get it done. He's probably not available anymore tho.
Duren for Trey Murphy has been discussed by other teams fans.

You traded all your young guys, but now you have guys that make sense around Cade.

Move Stewart to backup C. Grimes is your backup 2.

You have your first round pick and 60+ mil in cap space to get a starting 4 and 5 + you have cap flexibility to eat long term deal if the player fit your needs and can play (No Joe Harris/Zach LaVine/THJr).

You need defense and shooting. Goga Bitadze was excellent when Orlando needed to start him. He is a top tier defender, an a top tier rim protector/shot blocker and he is a decent passer and an okish offensive player. He is not a sexy name but he would get the job done.

Worst case scenario start Fontecchio at the 4 and get a couple of backup forwards. Obi Toppin, Naji Marshall, Derrick Jones Jr are guys what should be available for a little more than the MLE (yes it's an overpay but it is what it is)

Or you can go the trade rout. Brooklyn might want out of Cam Johnson's contract. Offer them a bunch of 2nds and raw cap space.

Sign a veteran defensive guard (Delon Wright is my favorite, he can defend at a high level and hit open 3's) and a veteran Forward that can defend and hit 3's. Depending on his health Covington would be perfect but that's not important, even Kevin Knox would be decent enough to be the 4th Forward and Stewart can play there if needed.

Goga Bitadze/ Isaiah Stewart / James Wiseman (for the minimum)
Cameron Johnson / Simone Fontecchio / Kevin Knox
Trey Murphy / Robert Covington / 1st round pick
Cade Cunningham / Quentin Grimes / Stanley Umude
Dejounte Murray / Delon Wright / Marcus Sasser

+ our top 5 pick. We could package the rookie with a player to get an upgrade at the deadline, or we could just develop the rookie. or trade the pick for future picks.

That's a play in team, and they're young. All 4 starters are well above average defenders with Bitadze being elite and Murray being elite in the past, when he was not playing with Trae. Murphy and Johnson are excellent defenders as well.

Only Bitadze is a non shooter Murphy and Cam are 39%+ career 3 pointers and Dejounte shot 36%+ on 7+ attempts last season, which is respectable. Cade would thrive in that lineup.

But if we continue to be attached to our young guys, who are not that good, we're not going anywhere.

We're likely going to sign Tobias Harris, and a bunch of meh guys and be a 20 win team next season tho.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

True in theory but probably not in reality.

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

Come on, you’re better than that. If the Pistons are smart, they could have lots of space for another year - no need to break the bank this year.

[bstein14]

I think Cade has been put in a pretty miserable situation, and extending him for the max this summer likely alleviates some of the pain of what he's gone thru here. I think making him wait it out is likely not in our best interest. Of course it sucks to max him if he gets injured and misses 60 games next season, but on the flip side the longer you prolong it the more likely he is to feel like this perhaps isn't the best situation for him moving forward.

[Snakebites]

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

Come on, you’re better than that. If the Pistons are smart, they could have lots of space for another year - no need to break the bank this year.

Yes they could. If they don’t make any commitments this year. As we’ve done. If we make any substantial commitments this offseason we’d need to move other pieces and probably let Cade walk to have cap space.

And if we DON’T make any improvements this offseason I’m sure that’ll really make Cade want to stay.

We don’t have attractive options.

[Kalamazoo317]

I think our best hope is building up around Cade and being willing to move anyone for better talents or fits in the right deals to build up the roster around him

[A_dub06]

I think we are further away than what a lot people on this board think we are. I’m not going to pretend like I know how exactly to fix this mess but:

1) due to poor asset management we simply don’t have the players or picks required to make multiple trades to reformat the roster with good players.

2) even if else make a trade or two and get slightly better this year, there is clear way to improve other than internal development for reasons made in the previous point.

3) Cade is a good player and he’s going to improve, but pretending like he’s this beast that going to be top 10 in the league is not realistic. If our best player is not one of the best in the league how far are we really going?

The more I think about it I really think blowing up completely reading Cade so we don’t have this timer to get better before he asks for a trade. Weaver has gotten us into this mess and personally I don’t think it’s salvageable at all. We could make moves and not improve enough and then he asks for a trade. Why go all through that when the road to getting in multiple good players on reasonable contracts is highly unlikely. It’s just pushing s*** up hill at this point. Would prefer to gut our entire management and roster and build from scratch.

[Mr Peanut]

Rent our cap space for minor assets? No. That's not a reasonable plan at this point. The team needs to start adding some guys who can actually play basketball.

We've got all the cap space in the world, recent lottery picks on the roster as trade assets, and a top5 draft pick coming, so it's not like we won't have a path towards making a big leap. I just don't trust current management to make good enough decision to get there.

Also, the direction duren takes is going to really define this rebuild. We need whoever got in Wiseman's ear last summer and got him to buy into a laser focus on defense and protecting the paint to be doing the same thing with Duren. The first 3 games of the season, he was out blocking shots, rebounding and generally looking like a beast. That was the best the team looked all season by a longshot. The rest of the year he was just flat out bad defensively.

"I think I got to a point — I don't want to blame it on injuries — but I just wasn't defending the way that I know I could." (Source: Detroit News, circa 2 months ago)

This quote from Duren gives me hope that if he gets healthy then he can consistently defend the way he did for the first few games of the season, and if that's his baseline then it significantly increases his potential for us. On the other hand if he has ongoing ankle injury problems then the opposite will ring true.

[BDM22]

See Maxey, Tyrese

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

Come on, you’re better than that. If the Pistons are smart, they could have lots of space for another year - no need to break the bank this year.

Cade's cap hold is $35M next year even if we hold out on him, which is just a hair under what he'll make on a max extension anyways. That's part of being the #1 pick. Cap is gone regardless.

Waiting on Maxey's deal helps Philly because his cap hold is only $13M because of how late he was drafted. Totally different situation. No benefit in waiting unless you want the option to let Cade walk for nothing.

[Canadafan]

Maxey was a third option on an already capped out team that was better than any team that was likely to have cap space in that offseason at the time when that extension needed to be decided on. The Sixers are also a team with options that we frankly don't have.

So it's really not a comparison. The better comparison to our situation is Lamelo Ball. Harder to ask him to go out and be the man after not committing to him.

I feel like we can have discussions about this but it doesn't matter. Cade will be extended. I'd be stunned if he wasn't.

Come on, you’re better than that. If the Pistons are smart, they could have lots of space for another year - no need to break the bank this year.

Cade's cap hold is $35M next year even if we hold out on him, which is just a hair under what he'll make on a max extension anyways. That's part of being the #1 pick. Cap is gone regardless.

Waiting on Maxey's deal helps Philly because his cap hold is only $13M because of how late he was drafted. Totally different situation. No benefit in waiting unless you want the option to let Cade walk for nothing.

Alrighty,so it's set. We can't kick the space down the road. This is the summer to spend....we build around Cade by adding players to our young core with our cap space. Including adding another young player by draft. Or we trade the young guys with our pick to add an impact player thats hopefully as good or better as Cade and then build it out with remaining space....or.... we trade Cade. Tank for Cooper

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Come on, you’re better than that. If the Pistons are smart, they could have lots of space for another year - no need to break the bank this year.

Cade's cap hold is $35M next year even if we hold out on him, which is just a hair under what he'll make on a max extension anyways. That's part of being the #1 pick. Cap is gone regardless.

Waiting on Maxey's deal helps Philly because his cap hold is only $13M because of how late he was drafted. Totally different situation. No benefit in waiting unless you want the option to let Cade walk for nothing.

Alrighty,so it's set. We can't kick the space down the road. This is the summer to spend....we build around Cade by adding players to our young core with our cap space. Including adding another young player by draft. Or we trade the young guys with our pick to add an impact player thats hopefully as good or better as Cade and then build it out with remaining space....or.... we trade Cade. Tank for Cooper

I like Cade - not as much as Vecenie, but I like him. With that said, if I’m choosing between (1) spending all the money to vault us to 30 wins, or (2) hitting the reset button with a new HOBO and a star-studded draft next year, I’ll go with option 2.