Stuckey and Amir

Champs04bigshot · Post #1 » by **Champs04bigshot** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:29 pm

I know a lot of people here do not like Stuckey and do not believe he is that great of a player, yet some of those same people come on here and praise Amir as if he should be getting pretty significant minutes. I am just wondering because Amir has never shown great in his limited minutes(besides getting dunks that are fast breaks or set up by gaurd penetration) but watching him play in summer league shows he has talent.

In those same summer league and preseason games Stuckey flourished more so than Amir yet he is crusified and Amir has been praised. He has never done anything in a real game and i am all for him getting in the rotation and believe him to be a great talent but in the same situations Stuckey has produced and been far more productive yet he is not liked at all and Amir is loved why is that?

Just trying to get some thoughts because as of right now Stuckey has shown more promise but yet most think Amir should be in the rotation and some believe Stuckey shouldnt get playing time at all?

Post #2 » by **ajaX82** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:36 pm

Everytime Hermann comes in at the 4 instead of Amir, my soul dies a little. Hermann's beautiful -15 at the end of the first half a couple games ago should have gone to Amir, but of course didnt.

Argh

HeroicKennedy · Post #3 » by **HeroicKennedy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:06 am

See, I didn't mind Brezec playing over Amir, because Amir was a 3/4 and Brezec is a true 5. We need a decent center just in case something happens to Rasheed (God forbid).

But no way Hermann should be playing over Amir. They're both 3/4's, but Amir is defintely better than Hermann, and should play over him.

<3AmirJohnson<3 · Post #4 » by **<3AmirJohnson<3** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:16 am

Amir has never shown great

??
If you watch when he gets meaningful minutes he does well. He gets rebounds, and shows a nice touch around the basket. He has vision and plays 5on5 instead of going for his own. His help defense is good, but his man defense is poor - probobly because he has only played against D-Leaugers and highschoolers. He probobly doesn't get to guard Sheed or Max in practice either (because he doesn't play).
It just ends up being a cycle. He doesn't play because he doesn't learn how to play, and the only way to learn how to play is to play.

And I doubt that Stuckey

is not liked at all

I like him. He needs experience. He's not playing at some mediocre college anymore. He just has to start making NBA plays, not College plays. He's got NBA skills for sure.

Big Steak · Post #5 » by **Big Steak** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:13 am

I don't know why Amir isn't getting playing time. Maybe he's not ready or maybe Flip is just trying to keep the man down, who knows. Either way, it doesn't matter much at the moment; Maxiell is doing just fine as the third big man. I am more than little concerned that in the same amount of time, Maxiell has turned into an outright beast while Amir can barely sniff the court. It makes me wonder if Amir is one of those ultra-talented players who just doesn't "get it." I really hope that's not the case.

As far as Stuckey goes, I have really high hopes for his development mainly because he can potentially fill two big needs: A solid backup 1-2 and a player with a slashing-type game. We don't NEED Amir to contribute right away; we really need Stuckey to develop.

Drwho17 · Post #6 » by **Drwho17** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:16 am

Stuckey isn't playing well right now, he hasn't earned his minutes either, and is hurting the team when he's on the floor. I wish the Pistons would apply the a similar policy to Amir Johnson, instead of running every bum they can find out on the floor they can find. No way should Herman or Brezec see the floor, before Johnson does, Flip Saunders may not like him, but he can rebound and block shots, which is more then what Herman/Brezec bring to the table.

Hunter · Post #7 » by **Hunter** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:55 am

My guess: We don't think it's a good idea to have TWO players on the floor who aren't ready. And our priority right now is getting Stuckey ready.

I think if we had a vet backup pg we'd actually be more inclined to let Amir get some minutes because we'd have a more stable bench.

nasty daddy · Post #8 » by **nasty daddy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:13 am

Hunter wrote:My guess: We don't think it's a good idea to have TWO players on the floor who aren't ready. And our priority right now is getting Stuckey ready.

I think if we had a vet backup pg we'd actually be more inclined to let Amir get some minutes because we'd have a more stable bench.

Like Lindsey Hunter. :lol:

Cappadon22 · Post #9 » by **Cappadon22** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:15 am

Rodney is being riddled with insults on account of his coming up short of virtually everyone's expectations so far in his new career.
It then becomes our responsibility as fans to inform him (as well as every other player on this team that we spend our hard-earned money and irreplaceable time supporting) that once he suits up, he's expected to "go to work".
Concerning Amir, we've seen flashes of promise in this one... Truth is; in this sport, few things are more exciting than a young, athletic small/power forward. Only those that pay little to no attention don't understand Amir's plight.

Champs04bigshot · Post #10 » by **Champs04bigshot** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:58 pm

Cappadon22 wrote:Rodney is being riddled with insults on account of his coming up short of virtually everyone's expectations so far in his new career.
It then becomes our responsibility as fans to inform him (as well as every other player on this team that we spend our hard-earned money and irreplaceable time supporting) that once he suits up, he's expected to "go to work".
Concerning Amir, we've seen flashes of promise in this one... Truth is; in this sport, few things are more exciting than a young, athletic small/power forward. Only those that pay little to no attention don't understand Amir's plight.

I understand Amir has shown flashes and i do pay attention and understand him but what im saying is what if Amir starts playing and gives up 6 points to a big and our lead is trimmed will you guys call for his head like you did when Martin did that to Stuckey?

Also Stuckey has shown flashes of great play more than Amir has and Amir has been here for a lot longer.

Everyone who says Stuckey hasnt earned his minutes, are you guys the coaches do you see what goes on before or after the games at practices and shoot around you have no idea who has earned their playing time. Stuckey has obviously shown more as a player than Afflalo who shows nothing when on the court. He doesnt make his presence felt on either side. Yes he doesnt make mistakes but he doesnt contribute either. I just think that you guys are high on the people who dont play and then if they make mistakes you will call for him to be benched hes a rookie point gaurd who last night played with his brace on so his hand must not be feeling any better. Also i bet if any of us had 3 pins in our hand and just got back we would struggle mightly shooting the ball too.

Champs04bigshot · Post #11 » by **Champs04bigshot** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:05 pm

Cappadon22 wrote:Rodney is being riddled with insults on account of his coming up short of virtually everyone's expectations so far in his new career.
It then becomes our responsibility as fans to inform him (as well as every other player on this team that we spend our hard-earned money and irreplaceable time supporting) that once he suits up, he's expected to "go to work".
Concerning Amir, we've seen flashes of promise in this one... Truth is; in this sport, few things are more exciting than a young, athletic small/power forward. Only those that pay little to no attention don't understand Amir's plight.

I understand Amir has shown flashes of promise im watching the same games everyone else is but are you trying to tell me that Stuckey hasnt shown even more flashes then Amir? Stuckey has had some great games. Everyone is so quick to jump over board he once again last night played with a brace on his hand so it must not be feeling that great. I think that if any of us had 3 pins in our hand and a brace on we would have trouble coming back and playing our best dont you think?

After the last couple years everyone has been calling for the development of our bench and now that he is using it we are complaining because we arnt winning and that Hunter should get more playing time. HUNTER PLAYED THE LAST TWO YEARS WE CANT GET IT DONE WITH HIM ANYMORE. If your gonna wine about no bench be quite when he plays the rookie to develop him you cant have it both ways. Stuckey is vital to our success now and in the future so either say you want a bench or be quiet when he plays and doesnt play particularly strong.

Stuckey is our best rookie not Afflalo and you guys dont see what happens at shoot around or practices so you do not know who has "earned minutes" or not. AA comes in a he is a ghost he does nothing. He does not make mistakes but he does not contribute at all besides hustle. Which hustle is ok if your getting steals rebouns or loose balls which AA is not. Stuckey is the futue stop crying when Flip is developing the bench we all called for this so deal with it it will only benefit us in the future.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #12 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:38 am

What happens if Stuckey doesn't develop this season? Come playoff time, should he just sit the pine completely and give all of his minutes to Hunter?

Dirtgrain · Post #13 » by **Dirtgrain** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:40 am

Roscoe Sheed wrote:What happens if Stuckey doesn't develop this season? Come playoff time, should he just sit the pine completely and give all of his minutes to Hunter?

Yep. But I think he is already developed enough to spell Billups in a pinch. I don't know if Hunter is up to playing a lot of minutes in the playoffs. Maybe. I truly love his defense. I would love to have him playing right now, actually, if I he could keep up the pace.

beau · Post #14 » by **beau** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:05 pm

Dirtgrain wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yep. But I think he is already developed enough to spell Billups in a pinch. I don't know if Hunter is up to playing a lot of minutes in the playoffs. Maybe. I truly love his defense. I would love to have him playing right now, actually, if I he could keep up the pace.

I think you are forgetting someone... Flip murray. This guy was never as bad as Stuckey has been this season. If he isnt traded by the deadline, and Stuckey is still sucking, he will be getting some burn. I like Stuckey just as much as the next Piston fan, but he really has to start playing better to earn some minutes. Flip has to take the reigns off him a bit and let him go; his confidence is shaken and it shows.

bstein14 · Post #15 » by **bstein14** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:17 pm

I don't hate stuckey at all. I don't dislike him.

He's not at a point where I've seen him help our team win.

Its that simple.

Afflalo has done good things in games where he's had a positive impact. I love his hustle. It bothers me that Stuckey took away Afflalo's playing time when Afflalo has been the better rookie

It would be different if Afflalo was a 15 year vet, I would want Stuckey to play over him. But Afflalo is a rookie too.

BDM22 · Post #16 » by **BDM22** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:41 pm

bstein14 wrote:I don't hate stuckey at all. I don't dislike him.

He's not at a point where I've seen him help our team win.

Its that simple.

Afflalo has done good things in games where he's had a positive impact. I love his hustle. It bothers me that Stuckey took away Afflalo's playing time when Afflalo has been the better rookie

It would be different if Afflalo was a 15 year vet, I would want Stuckey to play over him. But Afflalo is a rookie too.

Honestly, Stuckey took AA's minutes for about 2-3 games. That was a short lived experiment. He doesn't play much alongside Chauncey anymore. But I can understand why they wanted to attempt that. Afflalo is quite a bit more polished than Stuckey is right now, yes, but IMO, we aren't winning it all with Lindsey/Flip at point. We need Stuckey to make a few strides this year. AA has been good, but he is who he is. His game is defense/hustle, which doesn't need a ton of development.

princeofpalace · Post #17 » by **princeofpalace** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:09 pm

BDM22 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Honestly, Stuckey took AA's minutes for about 2-3 games. That was a short lived experiment. He doesn't play much alongside Chauncey anymore. But I can understand why they wanted to attempt that. Afflalo is quite a bit more polished than Stuckey is right now, yes, but IMO, we aren't winning it all with Lindsey/Flip at point. We need Stuckey to make a few strides this year. AA has been good, but he is who he is. His game is defense/hustle, which doesn't need a ton of development.

I dont think its fair to compartmentalize Afflalo like that. Yeah- he is a good defender and brings always hustles but tahts not all he can do. He is a shooter, if you watched him at UCLA you would know that the kid has a sweet stroke and atleast in college owned at the 3 point line. We havent seen that side of Afflalo yet, and I think thats what needs to be developed.

Stuckey has admitted to being tentative of driving (ofcourse his lack of driving to the hoop was blamed on Saunders coaching abilities). Once he gets that confidence of being more aggressive and driving to the hoop and finishing in addition to being able to shoot the J he is going to be very deadly. But until then- Afflalo is the more polished player and contribues more consistenly when hes in the game.

But people might not have to worry about Afflalos PT because Saunders rolled out with a Billups-Rip-Afflalo lineup last game and he might contine to do that meaning that Hayes and not Afflalos PT will be squeezed unless Hayes miraculously finds his shot again.

Champs04bigshot · Post #18 » by **Champs04bigshot** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:07 pm

[quote="princeofpalace"]-= original quote snipped =-
I dont think its fair to compartmentalize Afflalo like that. Yeah- he is a good defender and brings always hustles but tahts not all he can do. He is a shooter, if you watched him at UCLA you would know that the kid has a sweet stroke and atleast in college owned at the 3 point line. We havent seen that side of Afflalo yet, and I think thats what needs to be developed.

The college line and the nba line are two different shots and many players cant expand that far. Afflalo is 5-29 from the three and im pretty sure he hasnt forced shots with defenders in his face. Shooting 17% from three and getting good looks does not show me he has a "sweet stroke" he shouldnt have a shooting percentage like that if he can shoot the ball because we all know his looks are wide open looks. I believe that Afflalo is what he is there is not much room for imporvement. He plays hard and plays ok defense. He will never be an offensive threat and i believe that Stuckey is much more valuable because Afflalo could never spell Billups minutes and if we use Hunter or Murry we will not win period (thats been proven). Stuckey is struggling right now but once again like we saw when he was healthy in the preseason and summer league Stuckey is a much much better player than Afflalo.

Drwho17 · Post #19 » by **Drwho17** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:07 pm

princeofpalace wrote:But people might not have to worry about Afflalos PT because Saunders rolled out with a Billups-Rip-Afflalo lineup last game and he might contine to do that meaning that Hayes and not Afflalos PT will be squeezed unless Hayes miraculously finds his shot again.

Right, I'm not sure what happened to Saunders last night. Looked like he got out and read some message boards and altered his rotation to match. Amir Johnson got time, Afflalo got time at SG/SF nice, Stuckey didn't play too much, and the Pistons for once got a lift out of their bench.

princeofpalace · Post #20 » by **princeofpalace** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:33 pm

Arron Afflalo is the leading 3pt shooter in UCLA history. Thats range out to 20 feet with a textbook looking shot. So he has not quite there from the 3pt line this season, big deal. That really doesnt say anything about his stroke at all, just the fact that he has not adjusted to shooting it yet. The kid can shoot.

Rip Hamilton couldnt shoot the 3 until three years ago does that mean that before the 04-05 season, Hamilto didnt have a sweet stroke?

In addition, Afflalo plays "ok" defense? Really, just ok? Be for real, Afflalo is already one of the Pistons best defenders and he has the potential to be a lockdown defender. He is not ok, he is very good.

No one is saying that Stuckey doesnt have more upside than Afflalo, what I am saying is that today Arron Afflalo is the better player and there really is not much you can argue with that.