Is Washington better than Detroit

[BadMofoPimp]

First and foremost, I am a Detroit fan yet, I expect a lot of bashing here. But, there is a good discussion in whom is the better team. The Wizards or the Pistons this upcomming season. The Wizard has the talent to compete with the best of them but, the past few season it seems they battle with injuries and inconsistency. From what I witness with winning organizations, teams that keep the core usually build a winning formula. The Wizards have not given up on their core players and have added more pieces that makes them an interesting team to watch. On the other hand, the Pistons have just demolished their core in hopes to rebuild for the future. I have not witnessed many winning teams that were built in a year with the exception of Boston. Thus, I propose the discussion in regards to Washington having the better season as compared to Detroit. Personally, I think the Wizards are capable of taking the 4th seed. This will become an interesting season.

Washington has a bunch of talent at every position with the exception being Center. Look at what they got:

Arenas, James (a capable backup for 10-15 mpg even though Detroit homers hate him)
Foye, Stevenson, Miller provides nice depth scoring and defense
Butler is a good all around player with Miller backing him up (Nice)
Jamison with Blatche backing him up, very nice
Weakness is Center with Haywood starting (about even with Kwame), Blatche seeing some time here also.

Pistons have just changed their team and coach. This team is going to go through rough times learning how to work with each other.

Stuckey (a good player to build with, but still has problems with consistency), and Bynum (a very capable backup), I expect to see Gordon here also at times with Rip and Prince being capable ball handlers.
Rip or Gordon, two great scorers that have the advantage against just about any team in the league.
Prince, Pick ur backup. Prince is as good as Butler, but I might pick up Butler if I was a GM for my team.
CV, Maxiel. No way would I pick CV over Jamison at any time. Both are kind of soft, but Jamison has proved to be a decent rebounder and scorer while being a starter. CV has not convinced coaches to be a consistent starter on bad teams already. He is young and still has time to develop, but is not near Jamison's level.
Kwame, Wilcox are about par with Haywood/Blatche. I think the Pistons may have a defensive edge, but offensively they are weaker.

Last note, Flip is a proven winner regardless of what Pistons homers have stated. As long as he was here, we won. Sure, I would have liked a better coach, but with what is out there, I may be one of the few that was sorry he left.

Hence, I feel the Wizards will be the better team this next season. Feel free to discuss or hate.

[Cowology]

I think the Wiz have more talent, but I'm not sure how it'll all fit together. They have a much worse injury history and a shoot 1st, shoot 2nd PG trying to keep a whole lot of scorers happy.

But I also think much more of the Pistons than most of you. Evidently I will playing the role of zeeb this coming season.

[Liqourish]

Last note, Flip is a proven winner regardless of what Pistons homers have stated. As long as he was here, we won. Sure, I would have liked a better coach, but with what is out there, I may be one of the few that was sorry he left.

Hence, I feel the Wizards will be the better team this next season. Feel free to discuss or hate.

So if we agree, then we can discuss, otherwise we are haters and homers? Why ask then?

Flip was here for two years. The first year he admitted that he let the players coach themselves, they won 64 games. He took over the next season and they won 10 less games. And neither time did they reach the finals despite being better teams than the teams who beat them in the conference finals. If that makes Flip a proven winner, then people have very low standards.

[Choob]

^ actually Flip was here 3 years

1st: 64-18 (lost to Miami in ECF)
2nd: 54-28 (lost to Cle in ECF)
3rd: 59-23 (lost to Bos in ECF)

Flip's teams are good in the regular season when you dont have to play someone over and over again in a short stretch. In the playoffs however, the other team has enough time to game plan for him and he has no other alternatives or makes no adjustments. Thats why he has good regular season success and bad playoff results. Another mark against Flip is his inability to use his bench effectively. He'd rather run the starters ragged before putting in the bench and thats a big no-no especially when considering older players like the ones we had

[Liqourish]

I stand corrected, three years of underacheiving. I'll leave it up to someone else to list all Flips faults cause I really don't care at this point. He's gone.

[Cowology]

Choob is pretty much right on - good regular season coach, bad playoff coach. He'd actually come up with some pretty good game plans heading into each series, but he was horrible at making adjustments and over dependent on his starting lineup.

[Wizardspride]

Choob is pretty much right on - good regular season coach, bad playoff coach. He'd actually come up with some pretty good game plans heading into each series, but he was horrible at making adjustments and over dependent on his starting lineup.

Fwiw, Flip seems like he's very open to using his bench in D.C.

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

But we'll see how things unfold.....

[vege]

BadMofoPimp i disagree with EVERYTHING you wrote.

Your players rate is laughable imo. Haywood is a very solid defensive Center and way better than Kwame. DeShawn Stevenson is a terrible player. Butler is a good scorer SF not a great all around SF, that would be Prince. You also ignored McGee as Washington backup Center and he should get more minutes this season. He proved he will be a great defensive Center.

Stuckey don't have ANY problem with consistence, he was a PG is a messed up team with a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) head coach, next season he should be solid. He was very solid when he replaced an injured Billups in an organized team who cared about win.

I would take CV over Jamison any day. Jamison had a good season but with Arenas/Foye/Miller getting playing time this season his touchs should go down, as well as his points. CV put his points/boards playing as a 6th man in a crap team. He should improve his stats while Jamison stats should go down. CV is taller and younger while Jamison should start to decline due to his age. They are both terrible defenders but to be honest i would rather have CV on the defensive end than Jamison.

I don't like Blatche at all but i think he is better than Maxiell. As for your center comparison it's far off. Haywood/MCGEE are way better than Kwame/Wilcox. WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better.

A very important factor is, Wizards will have injuries, they always have, they also should have problems with touchs, Jamison and Butler should suffer with Arena's return and we need to see how Mike Miller will fit.

Washington team is far away from being a crap team, i just don't like them as a team for a number of reasons, injuries, Arenas/Butler/Jamison are a terrible fit together imo, if you think Flip is a proven winner you can make the same case to say Washington are proven losers.

So this is all bull, i don't see Washington being anywhere close to a top 4 team on east. Atlanta is the #4 right now imo, Detroit should be the number 5 and Washinton should fight against crap teams like Miami Chicago Toronto and Philadelphia for the remaining playoff spots.

[HeroicKennedy]

Washington's peak was, what? 45 wins when healthy? Adding Miller/Foye and Flip as the head coach is nice, but you also need to find a way to get all these guys touches. Plus, Jamison is 33 compared to still being in his 29-30. Also, believe it or not, Jamison and Villanueva have very similar numbers per 36. I'd say at this point they're pretty even, with the edge going to Villanueva because he's younger with more upside.

I'd say that we're JUST BARELY better than Washington, mainly because A) I don't buy into them staying healthy for an entire season and B) I think we're going to be better than a lot of people think we are.

[leevii]

Choob is pretty much right on - good regular season coach, bad playoff coach. He'd actually come up with some pretty good game plans heading into each series, but he was horrible at making adjustments and over dependent on his starting lineup.

Fwiw, Flip seems like he's very open to using his bench in D.C.

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

But we'll see how things unfold.....

He is drowning in Wizards koolaid all summer it seems.

[tmorgan]

Fwiw, Flip seems like he's very open to using his bench in D.C.

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

Two things:

1) Flip Saunders always talked a good game and a good gameplan. Wait and see if he rides your starters too hard before assuming he won't. Or heck, maybe Flip didn't, but he was a speaking prodigy in comparison to Michael Curry, so perhaps the grass is just greener in retrospect.

2) Of course he's going to say his current team is the most talented. What did you expect? "I think our team is very talented. Not as talented as my teams the three years with the Pistons, which, ahem, never made it to the Finals, but very talented. Very. Ahem. Why did you hire me again?"

[HeroicKennedy]

Fwiw, Flip seems like he's very open to using his bench in D.C.

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

Two things:

1) Flip Saunders always talked a good game and a good gameplan. Wait and see if he rides your starters too hard before assuming he won't. Or heck, maybe Flip didn't, but he was a speaking prodigy in comparison to Michael Curry, so perhaps the grass is just greener in retrospect.

2) Of course he's going to say his current team is the most talented. What did you expect? "I think our team is very talented. Not as talented as my teams the three years with the Pistons, which, ahem, never made it to the Finals, but very talented. Very. Ahem. Why did you hire me again?"

You forgot the scratching and twitching.

[RTM]

Fwiw, Flip seems like he's very open to using his bench in D.C.

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

Two things:

1) Flip Saunders always talked a good game and a good gameplan. Wait and see if he rides your starters too hard before assuming he won't. Or heck, maybe Flip didn't, but he was a speaking prodigy in comparison to Michael Curry, so perhaps the grass is just greener in retrospect.

2) Of course he's going to say his current team is the most talented. What did you expect? "I think our team is very talented. Not as talented as my teams the three years with the Pistons, which, ahem, never made it to the Finals, but very talented. Very. Ahem. Why did you hire me again?"

You forgot the scratching and twitching.

And the infamous Saunders squat!

[King Bugs]

Nice an OPINIONS thread.

Well, when I look at Washington I see a team with way more talent, a way better coach (even if he blows it in the playoffs constantly), and a way better frontcourt. They have a nice little bench too.

So yeah on paper they look considerably better than us. They may not end up being considerably better because of issues like... 1) Can they stay healthy? 2) Can they bring it together? and also 3) It's the Washington Wizards...

Even after all that I still personally have them ahead of Detroit, I like them a bit this year.

[zeebneeb]

I think the Wiz have more talent, but I'm not sure how it'll all fit together. They have a much worse injury history and a shoot 1st, shoot 2nd PG trying to keep a whole lot of scorers healthy.

But I also think much more of the Pistons than most of you. Evidently I will playing the role of zeeb this coming season.

I'm gonna hold you to that.

In any event, this is an impossible question to answer, even hypotheticaly. We have never seen the team play, and havnt seen some of its players, ever play.

The difference between this team, and last years team is so different, I couldnt even hazzard a guess.

I know one thing FOR CERTAIN;

We are the better team, just becuase we are the Detroit Pistons, a soundly run orginization, with a good GM, that strives to win. The Wizards are a JOKE of a franchise, that actually changed thier name, willingly, to the Wizards.

Pathetic, and I have zero respect for them in any way shape or form.

Coach is an idiot, GM is a fool, and ownership? Yeah. Awesome. Awesome to the max.

**** Wizards.

[somarilnos]

It's important to add that expecting Arenas to be and stay healthy is the rough equivalent of expecting Jason Maxiell to win NBA MVP.

[Cowology]

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

It's just lip service dude, he's blowing hot air. Or do you think he actually believes the Wiz are more talented than the Pistons he took over that was coming off back to back Finals appearances and a championship?? C'mon...

[Wizardspride]

In fact, he's said that top to bottom, this is the most talented and unique team he's ever had.

It's just lip service dude, he's blowing hot air. Or do you think he actually believes the Wiz are more talented than the Pistons he took over that was coming off back to back Finals appearances and a championship?? C'mon...

Hey man, don't get upset.

I never said that Flip was correct.

I'm just repeating what HE said.

Dismiss it if you like.

[HeroicKennedy]

We did dismiss it.

We dismissed the hell out of it.

[Cowology]

Nobody is getting upset. Just telling you it's b.s., that's all.