Game 61: Warriors vs Bucks

[Onus]

Sounds like Kerr has settled on TJD surpassing Looney and Saric for the foreseeable future ...

[Crazy-Canuck]

The Warriors win with defense. Playing big is a part of that. Kerr’s running out midgets is severely outdated, because most bigs are fast perimeter defenders. They would get stops and eat BBQ chicken in the paint while TJD wasn’t there. I don’t think the TJD defense will work on all other stars, but it’s effective on Giannis in the way JK gets stuffed in the same way. Probably been awhile since Giannis met an agile big since the league has gone so small.

The key also for this post season will be Dray’s three because he will get opportunities.

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It wasnt so much that smallball was the problem, if was that kerr forgot what made smallball effective.

It used to be dray and steph plus 3 wings who could defend and play within the system. You had klay, kd, iggy, Livingston, etc none were small per se, but not big either because dray was the C.

Recently, kerr to smallball to midget ball where instead of 2 way wings, he's gone to 1 way guards. That's the problem.

We can still play traditional warriors smallball, but it has to be dray, steph, wiggs, and moody + a 5th.

[oaktownwarriors87]

The Warriors win with defense. Playing big is a part of that. Kerr’s running out midgets is severely outdated, because most bigs are fast perimeter defenders. They would get stops and eat BBQ chicken in the paint while TJD wasn’t there. I don’t think the TJD defense will work on all other stars, but it’s effective on Giannis in the way JK gets stuffed in the same way. Probably been awhile since Giannis met an agile big since the league has gone so small.

The key also for this post season will be Dray’s three because he will get opportunities.

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

Kerr has to manage personalities and keep everyone happy/content. If he's going to bench a player like Klay he has to make sure it won't lead to a spiral. I don't think it's a coincidence that Klay was benched just a week after the trade deadline. A week after that Kerr himself signed an extension.

[watch1958]

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

Kerr has to manage personalities and keep everyone happy/content. If he's going to bench a player like Klay he has to make sure it won't lead to a spiral. I don't think it's a coincidence that Klay was benched just a week after the trade deadline. A week after that Kerr himself signed an extension.

My guess is that during negotiations, Kerr said he wanted the core back (he wanted Klay). MDJ couldn’t guarantee a Klay deal “no matter what”, but agreed to leave the prior 2/48 deal on the table. That made Klay okay with the bench (for now).

[SpreeChokeJob]

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It wasnt so much that smallball was the problem, if was that kerr forgot what made smallball effective.

It used to be dray and steph plus 3 wings who could defend and play within the system. You had klay, kd, iggy, Livingston, etc none were small per se, but not big either because dray was the C.

Recently, kerr to smallball to midget ball where instead of 2 way wings, he's gone to 1 way guards. That's the problem.

We can still play traditional warriors smallball, but it has to be dray, steph, wiggs, and moody + a 5th.

Forgot assumes that he knew in the first place. If he knew he wouldn’t have run those lineups. My guess is someone provided him the personnel and took care of the defensive game plan so he never learned in the first place until now.

[azwfan]

Been only mildly paying attention, but caught the highlights last night. Moody and TJD got minutes with everyone healthy! Great to see. Klay and CP3 off the bench. Honestly, didn't think I'd see it (well I really haven't cause I haven't really been watching). Grats to Kerr for reacting to the reality on the court. It took a bit longer than some of us may have hoped, but looks like he made the adjustment.

[HiRez]

I love Kuminga passing up the 3. You have Paul, Klay and TJD. He should only take a 3 if the shot clock is 3 or lower.

Don't know if it was the same play you're talking about, but one time he passed up the 3, started driving and got cut off by Giannis, recognized it was risky to force it, but he was already in a good position to hit a midrange in the paint, and just knocked it down. Because he's getting a reputation for being quick, that gives him a little more spacing and easier uncontested shots. I'd still prefer he drive whenever possible and draw contact, but it seems he is starting to recognize he has options, and does not have to force the first or even second plan, now it's just a matter of being fast processing which ones are best.

His assist rate is also up lately so that's another option he's cashing in on. JK AST% by month:

Oct 4.5%
Nov 9.3%
Dec 9.2%
Jan 11.6%
Feb 16.8%
Mar 14.6%

[HiRez]

Read on Twitter

[Impuniti]

Small ball is not having 4 guards on the court, or 3.

[Impuniti]

The Warriors win with defense. Playing big is a part of that. Kerr’s running out midgets is severely outdated, because most bigs are fast perimeter defenders. They would get stops and eat BBQ chicken in the paint while TJD wasn’t there. I don’t think the TJD defense will work on all other stars, but it’s effective on Giannis in the way JK gets stuffed in the same way. Probably been awhile since Giannis met an agile big since the league has gone so small.

The key also for this post season will be Dray’s three because he will get opportunities.

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It definitely wasn't Kerr. The media, JK calling him out AND Joe Lacob famously went to the presser in one of the many games Kerr acted like ChatGPT when it comes to rotations. Joku was hot that game but got benched in the end of his favorites can play, and he came in the presser to find out why he got benched. After that game, JK had mysteriously guaranteed playing time.

And no so many fans are calling Kerr brilliant for how he handled him.

[killmongrel]

This is something he started out moreso towards the second half of the 21-22 season and just went fully into it last and this season. It's relatively new, stupid, and a massive failure.

Stop overplaying super old past it guys, play people on merit, ban 4G lineups altogether and only allow 3G lineups if GPII is the other guard. Just a few steps to common sense and this team would have been comfortably in the PS.

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It definitely wasn't Kerr. The media, JK calling him out AND Joe Lacob famously went to the presser in one of the many games Kerr acted like ChatGPT when it comes to rotations. Joku was hot that game but got benched in the end of his favorites can play, and he came in the presser to find out why he got benched. After that game, JK had mysteriously guaranteed playing time.

And no so many fans are calling Kerr brilliant for how he handled him.

This. Some Kerr apologists are trying to gaslight the rest of us.

[CDM_Stats]

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It definitely wasn't Kerr. The media, JK calling him out AND Joe Lacob famously went to the presser in one of the many games Kerr acted like ChatGPT when it comes to rotations. Joku was hot that game but got benched in the end of his favorites can play, and he came in the presser to find out why he got benched. After that game, JK had mysteriously guaranteed playing time.

And no so many fans are calling Kerr brilliant for how he handled him.

This. Some Kerr apologists are trying to gaslight the rest of us.

Maybe, maybe not. I have a really hard time believing that he's drooling on himself when making basketball calls.. to me its almost certainly being the good mob wife and acknowledging that Klay was a big part of the titles, had some really rotten luck, and if I'm being honest.. despite his demeanor, seems to be just as emotional/dramatic on anyone on the team

I mean it wasnt like some deep dive was necessary to work out what was needed to be done. If twitter can work it out, then I'd wager a half-functional kindergartner could probably do it too. But the fact that he had his finger on the button for so long without pressing it is definitely concerning. And more concerning in my mind, and not being given anywhere near the ink it deserves, is the Jaylen Brown thing. Take risks sure, but make sure there's a logical premise behind them. Too often, there's no logical basketball premise behind these moves (or lack thereof)

[killmongrel]

It definitely wasn't Kerr. The media, JK calling him out AND Joe Lacob famously went to the presser in one of the many games Kerr acted like ChatGPT when it comes to rotations. Joku was hot that game but got benched in the end of his favorites can play, and he came in the presser to find out why he got benched. After that game, JK had mysteriously guaranteed playing time.

And no so many fans are calling Kerr brilliant for how he handled him.

This. Some Kerr apologists are trying to gaslight the rest of us.

Maybe, maybe not. I have a really hard time believing that he's drooling on himself when making basketball calls.. to me its almost certainly being the good mob wife and acknowledging that Klay was a big part of the titles, had some really rotten luck, and if I'm being honest.. despite his demeanor, seems to be just as emotional/dramatic on anyone on the team

I mean it wasnt like some deep dive was necessary to work out what was needed to be done. If twitter can work it out, then I'd wager a half-functional kindergartner could probably do it too. But the fact that he had his finger on the button for so long without pressing it is definitely concerning. And more concerning in my mind, and not being given anywhere near the ink it deserves, is the Jaylen Brown thing. Take risks sure, but make sure there's a logical premise behind them. Too often, there's no logical basketball premise behind these moves (or lack thereof)

A lot of us definitely figure it's Kerr's feeling and loyalty towards the vets that have inhibited his ability to coach the team properly recently. But what I'm actually referring to is some fans trying to push the narrative that Kerr handled things with Kuminga wisely and waited for the right moment to unleash him. Some fans really want to act like as if something like Draymond's suspension had nothing to do with why Kerr finally had no choice but to give Kuminga more minutes and a longer leash.

I saw some of the same narratives when Moody finally got his minutes as well as if Wiggins taking a hiatus had nothing to do with forcing Kerr's hand to finally give Moody more minutes/a longer leash.

Kerr has been a great coach overall. He's just not infallible like some fans think. Some of the decisions he has made last season and this have definitely been head shaking.

[HiRez]

A lot of us definitely figure it's Kerr's feeling and loyalty towards the vets that have inhibited his ability to coach the team properly recently. But what I'm actually referring to is some fans trying to push the narrative that Kerr handled things with Kuminga wisely and waited for the right moment to unleash him. Some fans really want to act like as if something like Draymond's suspension had nothing to do with why Kerr finally had no choice but to give Kuminga more minutes and a longer leash.

That is really rewriting history. If Kerr had any vision at all (or less loyalty, or both?), Kuminga and Moody could have both been a 1/2 year more advanced than they are right now, which would be incredible. Maybe there's enough time left before the playoffs but it sure would have been nice to have this version of them in November-December (not to mention last year's playoffs) instead of now.

The other related narrative that has to die is that Lamb and Jerome were flat-out better players than Kuminga and Moody last year, and it led to significantly more winning, and that Kuminga and Moody wouldn't ever improve enough to help them last year, and that's why Kerr couldn't play them more. We can now see that theory was very wrong and that's squarely on his head.

One thing I will say slightly in Kerr's defense is I think he was badly burned by the Wiseman experiment, and to some extent Poole. Those guys showed flashes of potential at times but I think the fallout made him extremely gun-shy about playing young guys at all. Still not really an excuse but I think it had a semi-permanent effect on his mindset.

[parsnips33]

Just because guys are breaking out in year 3, doesn't mean they necessarily would have in year 1 or 2 if they had just gotten minutes.

This seems self-evident to the point of being meaningless but that's apparently not the case

[SpreeChokeJob]

I’m not even sure it was Kerr making the decisions. It took the combined effort of the media and Kuminga calling him out which resulted to where the Warriors are now. Otherwise he would have continued plugging square pegs in round holes.

You could tell how clueless he was when looked all miserable at post game loss interviews. He had no clue, kept on trying to make the Curry, Thompson, CP3 lineup work by out scoring the opponent, but they gave up whatever points they made. Meanwhile Kuminga and Moody, third year players were sitting on the bench.

I don’t know what poster said it was an exercise in futility to ask Kerr to play Moody, well the next game he’s starter and been doing above average. It’s no doubt that media and the organization does lurk on these boards and now they are also fishing for ideas for stories or looking at Joe Schmoe for the obvious in tactics. Is Kerr going to thank realgm for securing the bag because he was on the way out otherwise.

It definitely wasn't Kerr. The media, JK calling him out AND Joe Lacob famously went to the presser in one of the many games Kerr acted like ChatGPT when it comes to rotations. Joku was hot that game but got benched in the end of his favorites can play, and he came in the presser to find out why he got benched. After that game, JK had mysteriously guaranteed playing time.

And no so many fans are calling Kerr brilliant for how he handled him.

This. Some Kerr apologists are trying to gaslight the rest of us.

Probably Ridder. PR machine working OT dealing with realgm delinquents. Hardest working man in the biz, send him flowers so we don’t have to the read the reeducation posts.

[HiRez]

Just because guys are breaking out in year 3, doesn't mean they necessarily would have in year 1 or 2 if they had just gotten minutes.

This seems self-evident to the point of being meaningless but that's apparently not the case

Kuminga and Moody began breaking out LAST YEAR though, Kerr just refused to see it. They were far from finished products but the signs were there.

[parsnips33]

Just because guys are breaking out in year 3, doesn't mean they necessarily would have in year 1 or 2 if they had just gotten minutes.

This seems self-evident to the point of being meaningless but that's apparently not the case

Kuminga and Moody began breaking out LAST YEAR though, Kerr just refused to see it. They were far from finished products but the signs were there.

I can kinda buy this with Moody, but Kuminga looks so much better this year than last I just don't see it

Of course we'll never know for sure, I just don't think the connection between playing time and improvement as a player is as direct as some might make it out to be

[michaelm]

Just because guys are breaking out in year 3, doesn't mean they necessarily would have in year 1 or 2 if they had just gotten minutes.

This seems self-evident to the point of being meaningless but that's apparently not the case

Kuminga and Moody began breaking out LAST YEAR though, Kerr just refused to see it. They were far from finished products but the signs were there.

I can kinda buy this with Moody, but Kuminga looks so much better this year than last I just don't see it

Of course we'll never know for sure, I just don't think the connection between playing time and improvement as a player is as direct as some might make it out to be

Kerr was playing guys on two way contracts who are now out of the league ahead of the young talent. When Moody was given some minutes in the play-offs last year his numbers were stellar.

Kerr proved the critics wrong about his regular season rotations (mainly of Curry) when the team went on to win the title in 2022 and I for one would be delighted if he did so again, but as per the other thread I can’t see how patiently waiting until the team is not even on a position to make the play-in to play the young players is a sound strategy in any way, shape or form that I can see. And what was he doing with Klay, ?. Kerr was either hoping playing time would help return him to the form of his glory days, which you have just argued is futile, or playing him as if he was still 2019 Klay, which he isn’t and probably can’t be due to his injuries. I can’t see a third alternative which would make his usage of Klay rational.

[CDM_Stats]

Just because guys are breaking out in year 3, doesn't mean they necessarily would have in year 1 or 2 if they had just gotten minutes.

This seems self-evident to the point of being meaningless but that's apparently not the case

Kuminga and Moody began breaking out LAST YEAR though, Kerr just refused to see it. They were far from finished products but the signs were there.

I can kinda buy this with Moody, but Kuminga looks so much better this year than last I just don't see it

Of course we'll never know for sure, I just don't think the connection between playing time and improvement as a player is as direct as some might make it out to be

Agreed, especially with the last part. The way I see it, PT is a reinforcement. If you get more PT, especially on a winning team, it reinforces what you've been doing in practice and in limited PT. Maybe JK would have been better sooner with PT, or maybe, just as likely, it would have damaged him and he'd still be trying to be a perimeter threat. Its hard to say

But there's also the other side of the coin, which is veteran/limited upside player PT. And I think more than the development angle, THAT is Kerr's issue. He doesnt seem to accept player decline well, nor does he accept limited upside well. Lamb and Jerome were barely NBA caliber players, yet they got a large chunk of minutes. On a playoff team, when they werent even playoff eligible for most of the season. Their respective peaks were breaking even, with anything else being a net negative. Its nearly indefensible how he used them

And then there's Klay this season, even now Klay still gets too long of a rope because he doesnt accept the decline. The flashes of good Klay aren't some hurdle he's clearing, its basically a dead cat bounce on a once great career. He just isnt that guy anymore. And Kerr, because he's been there the majority of Klay's career, has a tough time letting it go - whatever the reason. And its why most of the Kerr critiques are justified IMO