ImageImageImageImageImage

Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams

Moderators: Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair, floppymoose

User avatar
EvanZ
RealGM
Posts: 12,803
And1: 3,239
Joined: Apr 06, 2011

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#21 » by EvanZ » Fri Mar 8, 2024 11:51 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Start CP3 instead of Podz. But also start Moody

CP3/Moody/Wiggs/JK/Dray

This is the way


Not a fan of pairing CP and Dray....both are best with the ball in their hands and CP needs a roll man at the 5.


Literally we have Kuminga who could be the best roller on the team fi Kerr wanted him to be.
I was right about 3 point shooting. I expect to be right about Tacko Fall. Some coach will figure out how to use Tacko Fall. This movement towards undersized centers will sweep ng back. Back to the basket scorers will return to the NBA.
SinceGatlingWasARookie
RealGM
Posts: 11,357
And1: 2,695
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Location: Northern California

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#22 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Sat Mar 9, 2024 2:03 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
killmongrel wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Best case scenario!

Now start Podz, Moody, Wiggins, JK and Dray while he is out!


Makes too much sense. Kerr won't do it.


I say bench Draymond and build the starting lineup around CP3.

Nothing against Draymond, those two just don't work well together and the Warriors don't have a major scoring threat.


2 units. Don’t care which one starts.
Looney, Kuminga, Moody, GP2, CP3.

Next unit.
Trayce, Draymond, Wiggins, Klay, Podz.
Problem with 2nd unit is they are slow at guard.

I thought CP3 with Dray would mean wasting Dray’s passing skill because I thought CP3 would dominate the ball and that it might be correct for CP3 to dominate the ball. My observations and clues from stats did not have Draymond’s assists going down as much as I expected when Dray and CP3 play together.
SinceGatlingWasARookie
RealGM
Posts: 11,357
And1: 2,695
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Location: Northern California

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#23 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Sat Mar 9, 2024 2:12 am

Next 2 games are against the Spurs who are 3 and 7 in their last 10 games.
Wemby will be out with injury for the 1st game but is expected back for the 2nd game.
Crazy-Canuck
RealGM
Posts: 26,583
And1: 6,402
Joined: Nov 24, 2003

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#24 » by Crazy-Canuck » Sat Mar 9, 2024 3:17 am

Read on Twitter


Steph likely would have been given a rest on one of these b2bs anyways.
donkeylips
Veteran
Posts: 2,933
And1: 1,305
Joined: Apr 22, 2010

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#25 » by donkeylips » Sat Mar 9, 2024 4:24 am

im hoping hes back Wednesday march 13 @ dal or saturday march 16 @lakers. both vital games.
I can hawk a loogie eight feet in the air and catch it with my tongue.
WarriorGM
General Manager
Posts: 7,791
And1: 3,703
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#26 » by WarriorGM » Sat Mar 9, 2024 4:25 am

If it is a disaster averted then I think as fans I think we should all let out a collective sigh of relief and then try to make the best of the situation which if you think about it offers rich possibilities of interest. For example now will probably a ripe time to see what may have been in the past Chris Paul's dream/nightmare scenario of playing with Klay and Draymond! Can Chris Paul do with Klay and Draymond what Steph has? We may soon find out!
User avatar
whocurrz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,223
And1: 1,461
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
   

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#27 » by whocurrz » Sat Mar 9, 2024 4:34 am

Absolutely start CP3. Without Steph a PG who can control the game and get guys shots in their best spots is exactly what we need. Play Moody alongside him (with Podz as backup PG) but treat CP3 who’s been shooting better like Steph. Surround him both defense and hope to get easy offense from the defense. Draymond/ Podz cannot be the primary playmakers in an offense where the other shooters are Wiggins, Kuminga and Moody.

Kerr’s offense is completely dependent on Steph’s motion and the space it creates. Let CP3 run the show because him running the show (no matter the coach) has been some of the most effective offense in The NBA for years. He’s so much more equipped to plug in and weather this storm than any other option.

This is exactly the situation you use a refreshed CP3 (who’s shooting better) for and hope he weathers the storm and gets a good rhythm for the team because that’s our best hope of creating any sort of contending team.
Jarret Jack: “I brought one of my best suits. But looking down at this jersey, it’s just a sense of pride I don’t think I’ve ever felt as a professional. … Nothing in my closet is better than what I have on now."
Old_Blue
Veteran
Posts: 2,513
And1: 793
Joined: Jul 02, 2019
       

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#28 » by Old_Blue » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:08 am

Shams really should not have phrased his post as he did, suggesting that Curry could miss as little as one game. Sadly, the guy talks out of his bung hole quite frequently. In contrast, Monte Poole is saying Curry will realistically be out 7-10 days (3 or 4 games) but that the team will have a better read on the situation on Saturday.

Read on Twitter
GSWFan1994 wrote:I saw signs of David Robinson, Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh & Kevin Garnett while watching Wiseman.
Crazy-Canuck
RealGM
Posts: 26,583
And1: 6,402
Joined: Nov 24, 2003

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#29 » by Crazy-Canuck » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:26 am

Old_Blue wrote:Shams really should not have phrased his post as he did, suggesting that Curry could miss as little as one game. Sadly, the guy talks out of his bung hole quite frequently. In contrast, Monte Poole is saying Curry will realistically be out 7-10 days (3 or 4 games) but that the team will have a better read on the situation on Saturday.

Read on Twitter


Shams seems to miss on alot of warriors related things.

Just this week, he tweeted wiggins would show up the next day. Yet, at the same time he was already getting a sweat in the practice facility.
SinceGatlingWasARookie
RealGM
Posts: 11,357
And1: 2,695
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Location: Northern California

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#30 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:00 am

whocurrz wrote: (with Podz as backup PG) ……Draymond/ Podz cannot be the primary playmakers


I don’t think Podz can defend a classical PG that breaks ankles with dancing and ball fakes and has a quick burst of speed when he gets the defender leaning the wrong way. Podz flies around the court because of his high motor and basketball IQ so in some ways Podz is effectively fast but I don’t think Podz is actually fast. My solution to the Podz defending point guards problem is to play Podz with Payton and have Payton defend the point gurds while Podz is the point guard on offense.

I see Draymond as being a passer and decision maker at the level of the the very good point guards. What Draymond can’t do is the dancing and ball faking and the explosive acceleration that true point guards do. Curry is also missing true point guard acceleration but Curry has the best handles handles I have ever seen.

Most teams don’t have better offensive point guard play than what Draymond, Podz and Payton can give you combined. Payton’s offensive point guard skills are weak but Payton could Push the ball up the open court in a fast break situation faster than Draymond or Podz could. Passing the ball up the court is usually better than dribbling the ball up the court but if the ball must be dribbled up the court even against pressure I trust Payton to do that job.

The problem with Draymond, Payton and Podz combo is they are not scorers. So I need to play Kuminga and Klay with them. Klay seems to have good chemistry with Trayce and the CP3 unit also needs a scorer so maybe I can give Kuminga to the CP3 unit and play Trayce Draymond Klay Podz Payton if Klay is hitting his shots that night. If Klay is not hitting his shots and I am giving Kuminga to CP3 the I may have to play Draymond Klay Podz Quinones Payton and let Draymond figure who to pass to for the score.
killmongrel
Veteran
Posts: 2,983
And1: 1,291
Joined: Sep 18, 2018
 

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#31 » by killmongrel » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:08 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
killmongrel wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Best case scenario!

Now start Podz, Moody, Wiggins, JK and Dray while he is out!


Makes too much sense. Kerr won't do it.


I say bench Draymond and build the starting lineup around CP3.

Nothing against Draymond, those two just don't work well together and the Warriors don't have a major scoring threat.


That just complicates things unnecessarily. Start Podz, Wiggins, Moody, Kuminga, and Draymond. Replace Podz with Steph when he is healthy. Keep CP3 coming off the bench like he will going forward. Keep CP3 and Draymond apart. Keep Klay coming off the bench like he should. And so on.

Steph/Wiggins/Moody/Kuminga/Draymond is the lineup with the highest potential for this team to compete this season. Aside from that, I'm just interested in seeing all the young players get their minutes and progressing. And then we'll see what happens this summer.
User avatar
whocurrz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,223
And1: 1,461
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
   

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#32 » by whocurrz » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:35 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:
whocurrz wrote: (with Podz as backup PG) ……Draymond/ Podz cannot be the primary playmakers


I don’t think Podz can defend a classical PG that breaks ankles with dancing and ball fakes and has a quick burst of speed when he gets the defender leaning the wrong way. Podz flies around the court because of his high motor and basketball IQ so in some ways Podz is effectively fast but I don’t think Podz is actually fast. My solution to the Podz defending point guards problem is to play Podz with Payton and have Payton defend the point gurds while Podz is the point guard on offense.

I see Draymond as being a passer and decision maker at the level of the the very good point guards. What Draymond can’t do is the dancing and ball faking and the explosive acceleration that true point guards do. Curry is also missing true point guard acceleration but Curry has the best handles handles I have ever seen.

Most teams don’t have better offensive point guard play than what Draymond, Podz and Payton can give you combined. Payton’s offensive point guard skills are weak but Payton could Push the ball up the open court in a fast break situation faster than Draymond or Podz could. Passing the ball up the court is usually better than dribbling the ball up the court but if the ball must be dribbled up the court even against pressure I trust Payton to do that job.

The problem with Draymond, Payton and Podz combo is they are not scorers. So I need to play Kuminga and Klay with them. Klay seems to have good chemistry with Trayce and the CP3 unit also needs a scorer so maybe I can give Kuminga to the CP3 unit and play Trayce Draymond Klay Podz Payton if Klay is hitting his shots that night. If Klay is not hitting his shots and I am giving Kuminga to CP3 the I may have to play Draymond Klay Podz Quinones Payton and let Draymond figure who to pass to for the score.


Podz and Draymond are both high IQ guys who are capable playmakers in our system. But our system is predicated on the space Curry creates from his range and constant movement. Dray can make the right play from a 4-3 in his sleep and Podz can attack a scramble and kick but neither should be the primary initiator of most offenses. Their current playmaking strengths are predicated on the presence of Curry. Otherwise they rely on the spacing created by transition and scramble situations. CP3 is a self-contained steady offense (especially if he can hit shots which he’s finally started doing). We got him for this break glass in case of emergency type of situation and honestly if he can thrive in it and hit good form our ceiling gets so much higher.

Unless CP3 is completely cooked (which his play lately is evidence of the contrary), I trust him to run the show. I’d keep his minutes around the same and Hope Draymond and Podz fill his playmaking role on the second unit. But the ONLY player we have capable of fulfilling Steph’s impact/rolw on offense is CP3.
Jarret Jack: “I brought one of my best suits. But looking down at this jersey, it’s just a sense of pride I don’t think I’ve ever felt as a professional. … Nothing in my closet is better than what I have on now."
CDM_Stats
Head Coach
Posts: 6,516
And1: 2,118
Joined: Oct 03, 2022
 

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#33 » by CDM_Stats » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:25 am

Trying to replace Curry is not a good plan

The team is extremely different without him and replacing him with a slow, mediocre scoring near-retiree will get the results that most expect. Because data exists showing that CP3 has only really been effective with fellow slow, half court types. And playing him with Dray helps neither of them
tarantism
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,709
And1: 2,146
Joined: Nov 24, 2014
       

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#34 » by tarantism » Sat Mar 9, 2024 8:41 am

If you're starting CP3 then the idea can't be to replicate the Curry offense. We'd probably have to run the CP3 pick roll attack and rely on out executing teams. I'd consider keeping one of Dray or CP3 on the court at all times and run more of our motion/split stuff with Dray/Podz/Klay while CP3 sits.

Agree that Kuminga could be the primary 2nd man in the 2-man game with CP3. Hopefully Dray's career year from 3 holds up.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
Crazy-Canuck
RealGM
Posts: 26,583
And1: 6,402
Joined: Nov 24, 2003

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#35 » by Crazy-Canuck » Sat Mar 9, 2024 8:55 am

It would not surprise me to see kerr start cp3 and klay.
User avatar
whocurrz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,223
And1: 1,461
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
   

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#36 » by whocurrz » Sat Mar 9, 2024 10:16 am

CDM_Stats wrote:Trying to replace Curry is not a good plan

The team is extremely different without him and replacing him with a slow, mediocre scoring near-retiree will get the results that most expect. Because data exists showing that CP3 has only really been effective with fellow slow, half court types. And playing him with Dray helps neither of them


I know you do your research and I respect your
analysis of players beyond raw stats (like Wiggins who many people love to crucify because of stats). So I’m curious about the data and any realConclusions we can draw an about The effectiveness of lineups with CP3 and large wings. I’m sure a CP3/ Moody/ Wiggins/
JK/ Draymond lineup doesn’t have significant minutes. And although aging isn’t a linear progression CP3 has a decorated career of generating successful offenses with lineups of all types (regardless of who he’s played with here).

And honestly I think that’s an experiment worth running. Mostly because I think a CP3 shooting well can help maintain a solid balanced offense more than any other Curry replacement. Truthfully he has been trying to fit in here too much and hasn’t maximized himself yet. CP3’s been playing nicely and effectively for us but he can still be that assassin we’ve hated for years. And I think he has an extra gear to reach, which if he does actually makes us a contender. I love Podz but unless he is hitting a crazy percentage he just doesn’t raise Our ceiling to the level an actualized CP3 does.
Jarret Jack: “I brought one of my best suits. But looking down at this jersey, it’s just a sense of pride I don’t think I’ve ever felt as a professional. … Nothing in my closet is better than what I have on now."
jozef
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,653
And1: 124
Joined: Oct 29, 2001
Location: Slovakia

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#37 » by jozef » Sat Mar 9, 2024 10:52 am

PG Podziemski 28, Paul 20
SG Thompson 28, Moody 20
SF Wiggins 28, Payton 20
PF Green 16, Kuminga 32
C Jackson-Davis 32, Green 16
Old_Blue
Veteran
Posts: 2,513
And1: 793
Joined: Jul 02, 2019
       

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#38 » by Old_Blue » Sat Mar 9, 2024 11:48 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:I saw signs of David Robinson, Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh & Kevin Garnett while watching Wiseman.
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,698
And1: 2,321
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#39 » by Sleepy51 » Sat Mar 9, 2024 11:55 pm

I’m not nearly as disturbed by CP3 with Dario out of the lineup. CP3 had beer goggles for him and he was pretty much the only guy CP3 would pass to other than Curry for a couple of months.

Kind of like needing to separate Kerr and Klay. There are all sorts of skills with value but they are old headed and ossified in how they view each other.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
Onus
RealGM
Posts: 19,131
And1: 5,397
Joined: May 12, 2008
Location: NOA

Re: Steph out a game or maybe a few according to Shams 

Post#40 » by Onus » Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:34 am


Out only 2 games could be back for the mavs game ….
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)

Return to Golden State Warriors