We need Kuminga and Moody to be the ___ and ___ best players on this team

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I want Kuminga to be the 2nd best defender on the team, good enough to slot him into closing lineups to lock down oppositions best players.

I want Moody to be a 40%+ 3-point shooter and always have a positive +/- on court.

Kuminga does not have the defensive instincts to make the right decisions on team defense yet.
That might be fixed 2 years from now.

Kuminga’s on ball man defense is good but that is not something you would f!uck up by overthinking.

This year’s Kuminga is making quicker smoother decisions on whether to shoot or drive.

I have been watching an NBA home team regularly since 1979 and I can not remember any home team where 2 guys who should be very good rebounders like Kuminga and Wiseman rebounded poorly because they give the opposing team a head start towards the rebound.

I think Kuminga and Wiseman were stopping to think about whether to go for the rebound or guard somebody or guard a space.

Kuminga only looks a bit better on rebounds this year than last year. Kuminga still hesitates and gives the other team a head start towards rebounds. When you are as fast and strong as Kuminga is on drives for dunks you should be a dominant rebounder.

TJD looks instinctive and like a fast decision maker on defense. If TJD turns into a hesitant slow reactor then I will blame the coaching staff for making Kuminga and Wiseman into bad rebounders by causing them to think too much.

I noticed that Kuminga had a fast drive when he was a rookie but I just got arround to looking at how Kumingais fast. I saw a Kuminga drive and something looked a bit different than normal. Kuminga was blowing past his defender but it was not with long perfect race horse strides like Kobe and LeBron. Kuminga has some moves but they are not great moves at shaking and baking a defender like Curry. What I noticed and will be watching to see if I am correct is that Kuminga was completing more steps than his defender in a given time. Iverson had shake and bake but like what I think I saw on Kuminga was that Iverson was able to take more steps in a given time. If you can complete 2 steps for every 1 step the defender can ccmplete you will be fast even if your steps are not long steps.

[CDM_Stats]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

[DonaldSanders]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

Moody is definitely a step ahead of JK. Moody just fits in, where Kuminga often doesn't know what to do, and by the time he has decided it's too late and he ends up forcing it. However I don't think 10-15mpg of Kuminga makes sense -- it's year 3 and we really need to give him a shot to grow to see if he is a Warriors guy.

There are then 3 outcomes --
1) he is a Warriors guy (great!), this means we can play him in the playoffs
2) he is not a Warriors guy or needs more time, and he doesn't play that much in the playoffs
3) he is not a Warriors guy, and we make a trade

I think only playing him 10-15mpg leads us to #2 which is the worst outcome. We either need to know he's our guy and he's got playoff rotation minutes, or we've featured him enough such that we can find a trade involving him. Possible #2/#3 overlap a bit and he gets moved the next year, but either way I think we really have to give him a shot this year.

Moody though... wow, I think he's a starting quality player for us. I'm really impressed, and I hope Steve gives him 25-30mpg every night.

[CDM_Stats]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

Moody is definitely a step ahead of JK. Moody just fits in, where Kuminga often doesn't know what to do, and by the time he has decided it's too late and he ends up forcing it. However I don't think 10-15mpg of Kuminga makes sense -- it's year 3 and we really need to give him a shot to grow to see if he is a Warriors guy.

There are then 3 outcomes --
1) he is a Warriors guy (great!), this means we can play him in the playoffs
2) he is not a Warriors guy or needs more time, and he doesn't play that much in the playoffs
3) he is not a Warriors guy, and we make a trade

I think only playing him 10-15mpg leads us to #2 which is the worst outcome. We either need to know he's our guy and he's got playoff rotation minutes, or we've featured him enough such that we can find a trade involving him. Possible #2/#3 overlap a bit and he gets moved the next year, but either way I think we really have to give him a shot this year.

Moody though... wow, I think he's a starting quality player for us. I'm really impressed, and I hope Steve gives him 25-30mpg every night.

The 10-15 mpg IS his shot to grow... we can't earmark in the 20-25 range when he's consistently been a net negative. At some point he has to authentically earn the minutes, and he hasn't yet. We can all see what the upside *could* be, and he's at least gotten the message with regards to rebounding (sometimes - 1st and 2nd half were very different vs SAC in that sense).. but we're at the point where the margin of error is extremely slim for this team to contend, and Kuminga has to start getting to net neutral or at least trending that direction. Last season he was a consistent net negative, fell out of the rotation, and is still trending downwards in terms of impact when he has a bigger role

Simply put, he just needs to start being good or at least trending in that direction to justify the minutes share he's getting. I wouldnt be surprised if he's only getting 10-15 when Draymond is fully back.. I dont think Dray goes for his usual 30-34 on Sunday so I could see both in the 20-25 range tomorrow night. But if Kuminga struggles again.. I dont see a better candidate to cede Dray minutes

[Crazy-Canuck]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

And where do moodys minutes come from?

Klay is penciled in for 35.
Wiggs at 30.
Steph 35
Cp3 30

I think that's the minute crunch. I'm not sure kerr is going to do what's necessary to get moody minutes when everyone is healthy.

[CDM_Stats]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

And where do moodys minutes come from?

Klay is penciled in for 35.
Wiggs at 30.
Steph 35
Cp3 30

I think that's the minute crunch. I'm not sure kerr is going to do what's necessary to get moody minutes when everyone is healthy.

Moody's getting 20 right now.. and I dont think CP3 gets 30 nor Klay gets 35 as the year goes on, the situation has dictated that in 2 games (struggling for offense, no Draymond as 2nd handler).. Whole point of having depth is to conserve players' energy, defeats the purpose to have a 38 year old getting 30 mpg and having a guy with 2 major leg injuries leading the team in minutes. More importantly the guys that Moody is covering for (Klay/Wiggins) are more likely to be replaced than Dray or Steph, which means if one falters, Moody is likely the primary beneficiary.. GP2 is the other one who covers those 2, but the offensive dropoff would be extremely steep

Think ultimately it should go something like

Curry (24) / CP3 (24)
Klay (26) / GP2 (14) / Curry (8)
Wiggins (24) / Moody (20) / Klay (4)
Dray (26) / Kuminga (16) / Wiggins (6)
Looney (24) / Saric (18) / Dray (6)

10 man rotation with no one above 32 minutes with the flexibility to add/subtract minutes as needed, especially to close the game. Honestly I'd try and cap both Wiggins and Klay at 30.. Klay, to preserve his legs and preserve fan sanity. Wiggins, to give Moody more opportunity so he could be ready to take on a bigger role in the POs if needed

[Jester_]

On re-watch, I continue to be insulted that Moody and Kuminga are evaluated together.. Kuminga has been a wrecking ball to the team so far, even more so than the past. Data skews heavy after just 2 games but since the games started counting, it has not gone well. When Dray returns, I expect exactly what I said initially - Moody hovers in the 20-25mpg range, and Kuminga in the 10-15mpg range. Until the floor game improves and Kuminga can stay under control, he needs to have a quick hook

GP2 should probably fall into the 10-15mpg range too if he's not playing a lot with Curry. He's never exactly been an offense-based guy but if he's going to be a total 0 on offense, then he's a specialty player just like Kuminga

Saric I'll wait on, because I'd like to see how he plays alongside Draymond. As it stands now, he's a much better fit with CP3 than Steph which should cap his upside. But if he can play well with Draymond and Steph, that could open up a ton of avenues

And where do moodys minutes come from?

Klay is penciled in for 35.
Wiggs at 30.
Steph 35
Cp3 30

I think that's the minute crunch. I'm not sure kerr is going to do what's necessary to get moody minutes when everyone is healthy.

Kerr should be in a mental institution if Klay sniffs anything close to 35

[a8bil]

Kerr should be looking at 30 max for Klay, Steph, CP3 and Dray. 120 minutes left for Looney, Wiggins, Saric, JK, Moody, GPII. I'm thinking Wiggins and Looney are min 25 minutes, Saric, JK and Moody are 18 minutes and GPII 12. And, the. answer to OP is 8 and 9. They need solid contributions from Saric at 7.

[DonaldSanders]

The 10-15 mpg IS his shot to grow... we can't earmark in the 20-25 range when he's consistently been a net negative. At some point he has to authentically earn the minutes, and he hasn't yet. We can all see what the upside *could* be, and he's at least gotten the message with regards to rebounding (sometimes - 1st and 2nd half were very different vs SAC in that sense).. but we're at the point where the margin of error is extremely slim for this team to contend, and Kuminga has to start getting to net neutral or at least trending that direction. Last season he was a consistent net negative, fell out of the rotation, and is still trending downwards in terms of impact when he has a bigger role

Simply put, he just needs to start being good or at least trending in that direction to justify the minutes share he's getting. I wouldnt be surprised if he's only getting 10-15 when Draymond is fully back.. I dont think Dray goes for his usual 30-34 on Sunday so I could see both in the 20-25 range tomorrow night. But if Kuminga struggles again.. I dont see a better candidate to cede Dray minutes

I get where you are coming from, I just feel like we need a more definitive answer on him and there's no need to over extend Draymond. I think Dray will miss some games that JK can play, keep Dray around 28-30 mins and let JK clean up, playing with CP3 seems to be a safe bet for Kuminga so far despite all his mistakes.

I'm concerned he just won't process the game fast enough, many times he gets the ball in a position that if he made a decisive, quick decision to cut in and go for the cup it would work... but instead he posts up and then makes a slow, much less optimal play. His passing looks improved, so there are some positive signs. I'm just getting worried about his general BBIQ, part of why I want to give him more time to really get a verdict/give him a chance.

[CDM_Stats]

The 10-15 mpg IS his shot to grow... we can't earmark in the 20-25 range when he's consistently been a net negative. At some point he has to authentically earn the minutes, and he hasn't yet. We can all see what the upside *could* be, and he's at least gotten the message with regards to rebounding (sometimes - 1st and 2nd half were very different vs SAC in that sense).. but we're at the point where the margin of error is extremely slim for this team to contend, and Kuminga has to start getting to net neutral or at least trending that direction. Last season he was a consistent net negative, fell out of the rotation, and is still trending downwards in terms of impact when he has a bigger role

Simply put, he just needs to start being good or at least trending in that direction to justify the minutes share he's getting. I wouldnt be surprised if he's only getting 10-15 when Draymond is fully back.. I dont think Dray goes for his usual 30-34 on Sunday so I could see both in the 20-25 range tomorrow night. But if Kuminga struggles again.. I dont see a better candidate to cede Dray minutes

I get where you are coming from, I just feel like we need a more definitive answer on him and there's no need to over extend Draymond. I think Dray will miss some games that JK can play, keep Dray around 28-30 mins and let JK clean up, playing with CP3 seems to be a safe bet for Kuminga so far despite all his mistakes.

I'm concerned he just won't process the game fast enough, many times he gets the ball in a position that if he made a decisive, quick decision to cut in and go for the cup it would work... but instead he posts up and then makes a slow, much less optimal play. His passing looks improved, so there are some positive signs. I'm just getting worried about his general BBIQ, part of why I want to give him more time to really get a verdict/give him a chance.

His BBIQ is 100% based on whether or not he's central to the play, and only on offense. He's a stone's throw from Oubre-level awareness for the rest of his floor game, and I'm not exaggerating. Best comp now looks like Anthony Randolph

I'd love for him to be a lotto ticket and just payoff randomly but if there was an optimistic slant to latch onto, I'd be trying it at this point. Its just not looking good, and I wouldn't want to risk what we saw tonight based on the uber-slim chance that Kuminga starts understanding the 5 on 5 game

Deploy him as we should have deployed Poole - bench microwave, Corey Maggette style. If the shots arent falling or if he's out of control, shrug, we tried, and back to the bench with him. Let him try and prove his growth in injury/load mgmt games.. but the 20 mpg rotation role? He needs to earn that. Looney had to earn his role, Moody is earning his, TJD and Podz are even earning the some chances, or at least are inching closer to a potential role.. Kuminga can't get a handout when the rest of the youngins are integrating

And I might be going too far on this, but the 1st 4 games, especially tonight, are any indication.. we might need to start thinking about how we keep CP3 on the team. And if that's the case, there's really not that much point holding Kuminga into the offseason if he can be turned into a win-now asset.. that might be tough considering salary restrictions, but I would have said the same about Wiseman last year

[DonaldSanders]

His BBIQ is 100% based on whether or not he's central to the play, and only on offense. He's a stone's throw from Oubre-level awareness for the rest of his floor game, and I'm not exaggerating. Best comp now looks like Anthony Randolph

I'd love for him to be a lotto ticket and just payoff randomly but if there was an optimistic slant to latch onto, I'd be trying it at this point. Its just not looking good, and I wouldn't want to risk what we saw tonight based on the uber-slim chance that Kuminga starts understanding the 5 on 5 game

Deploy him as we should have deployed Poole - bench microwave, Corey Maggette style. If the shots arent falling or if he's out of control, shrug, we tried, and back to the bench with him. Let him try and prove his growth in injury/load mgmt games.. but the 20 mpg rotation role? He needs to earn that. Looney had to earn his role, Moody is earning his, TJD and Podz are even earning the some chances, or at least are inching closer to a potential role.. Kuminga can't get a handout when the rest of the youngins are integrating

It's frustrating with JK, he has the tools but not the IQ. You watch Podz and TJD get their first minutes and they make some mistakes but they just 'get it' already. I hold out some hope lately because his passing has shown some IQ, but when he makes silly costly mistakes it is rough. I still think in certain matchups his athleticism could be really useful. Hopefully just getting consistent minutes and no DNP's this year will keep him happy even if he only gets say the 15 minutes he might deserve. Moody should be 20+ though, he has to be.

And I might be going too far on this, but the 1st 4 games, especially tonight, are any indication.. we might need to start thinking about how we keep CP3 on the team. And if that's the case, there's really not that much point holding Kuminga into the offseason if he can be turned into a win-now asset.. that might be tough considering salary restrictions, but I would have said the same about Wiseman last year

Nah you really aren't. Even if he can't orchestrate at this level the whole season or next year, 75% of what we're getting now is still life for this team. So far this season CP3 has been our 2nd most valuable player (something I don't expect to hold but just based on the start of the season). When Steph steps off the court now I expect to gain points, it's nuts. And you know CP3 has a chip about all this, he wants to show how impactful he is. For a guy that can't hit the broadside of a barn so far this season with his shot, he has been amazing. Everyone is more involved instead of watching one guy dance around and take some crap shot.

I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year CP3 is our 3rd most important player behind Draymond. 4th most at worst at this trend, which is a huge boon for us. I was expecting to get more of a 5th type importance, but he clearly still has juice left in him. Steve has played this perfectly (and Dray's injury had a silver lining), he gave him time with the starters helping Chris realize where his best role is for the team. Keep CP3's minutes mid 20s and we have the formula that was hoped for pre-season. I just feared Steve would go bananas playing him, but he has managed to find that balance already. I guess some of that is just the team is deeper, so it's easier to play good players fewer minutes.

[GunnerWRX]

Hornets not picking up Bouknight‘s 4th year. Remember this guy?

[CDM_Stats]

Hornets not picking up Bouknight‘s 4th year.

lol one of the funnier parts of that draft.. people started convincing themselves to like that scrub because the Warriors were smokescreening on him, hard. His style is exactly the same as Monta and Poole, with much less talent

Even funnier: there have been 3 definite busts (4 if you count Garuba) in that 1st round and the Hornets drafted 2 of them

[Onus]

Hornets not picking up Bouknight‘s 4th year.

lol one of the funnier parts of that draft.. people started convincing themselves to like that scrub because the Warriors were smokescreening on him, hard. His style is exactly the same as Monta and Poole, with much less talent

Even funnier: there have been 3 definite busts (4 if you count Garuba) in that 1st round and the Hornets drafted 2 of them

Ngl I was scared they were going to select bouknight. We definitely have a leak in the front office and who we like is usually out in the ether.

[EvanZ]

We probably have Poole to thank for avoiding JB ironically.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[GunnerWRX]

https://theathletic.com/2720517/2021/07/26/who-should-warriors-draft-at-seven-james-bouknight-moses-moody-or-jonathan-kuminga/?amp=1

[CDM_Stats]

Hornets not picking up Bouknight‘s 4th year.

lol one of the funnier parts of that draft.. people started convincing themselves to like that scrub because the Warriors were smokescreening on him, hard. His style is exactly the same as Monta and Poole, with much less talent

Even funnier: there have been 3 definite busts (4 if you count Garuba) in that 1st round and the Hornets drafted 2 of them

Ngl I was scared they were going to select bouknight. We definitely have a leak in the front office and who we like is usually out in the ether.

Who the team likes is usually sandwiched between other strategically leaked players though.. frankly I had heard that they were ready to pick Moody at 7, and I was stunned when it was Kuminga. Luckily Moody dropped to 14, but we came dangerously close to Kuminga/Duarte

[CDM_Stats]

https://theathletic.com/2720517/2021/07/26/who-should-warriors-draft-at-seven-james-bouknight-moses-moody-or-jonathan-kuminga/?amp=1

I remember this article, I was so pumped that Coach Spins was being referenced like this... and now I'm depressed that no more of these videos will come out. They were so good

[EvanZ]

I kind of feel like we need our starting 5 + CP3 to still be our top 6. If any of those guys fall off significantly it's bad news (Klay or CP3 being the most likely) from an overall talent perspective.

But my sincere hope is that Kuminga and Moody *both* slot in above GPII and Saric (and obviously Cujo) in terms of the rotaiton before the ASG. If this happens, it means they have both taken a significant leap.

Short of that, I think we need at least one of them to fulfill this leap this season to remain competitive or have any chance of contending.

If neither of them can surpass GPII *and* Saric (meaning they become the 7th man on the depth chart), I think it spells trouble. If I had to pick one of them to do it from a standpoint of being more important, it's probably Kuminga simply because of his size and it would probably mean he's really shooting or doing something else at an elite level. But if Moody can reach the Brandon Rush tier that projected before he was drafted, that might be enough too.

Welp, I think JK and Moody have done their jobs, and in the case of JK he's far surpassed role player status. Didn't anticipate Podz contributing as much as he has, and also didn't think Looney would be the guy falling out of the top 6.

[KevinMcreynolds]

JK desperately needs a mid-range pullup for playing against good defenses like Boston.