TJD Not Playing Is Costing Warriors Games

[Impuniti]

Basketball is a billion dollar business which relies more on analytics and proven models. RealGmers are fans and more subjective.

Merit is subjective depending on your criteria.

In the first two months, Klay and Wiggins were some of the worst players in the league and played with impunity. Looney this season wuldn't even get game time as the center backup in nearly every other team. That's not subjective, it's how they've played.

Not everything can be hidden under the guise of subjectivity. Pop is one of the 3 best coaches of all time and made one of the dumbest substitutions in NBA history in 2012. Coaches like everyone else make mistakes. Kerr has been making a ton of them.

Once again a difference between a realgm fan who habe more recency bias and a professional coach. Wiggins and Klay main drop off is in the area of shooting the 3. There is great history and likelyhood they would return closer to the norm. Kerr is statistically one of the greatest 3pt shooters ,#1 in pct, and understands this more than most anyone.

No the main drop off was on every single aspect early on, especially for Wiggins. He was diabolically poor defensively. This isn't a recency bias, it's based on what is happening. If Klay all of the sudden finishes the season as a 43% 3P shooter by the end of the season, it doesn't change all the issues that come with him logging heavy minutes.

What you're describing is far and away one of the most obnoxious points anybody ever mentions on realgm. Don't question a coach, GM, CEO because they've been doing it while everyone here hasn't. It's stuck on the point that they can't be wrong and some random person (or thousands) can't see it. Everyone makes mistakes, and some are awful. Which is why CEOs step down, GMs/coaches get fired, and players get traded.

Kerr's 3 and 4 guard lineup as an example is a failure, and him being a crazy successful coach doesn't mean that it's not a failure.It doesn't mean it's not a failure because I or any other schmuk on here that can see it. It's an objectively idiotic tactical move that he keeps repeating ad nauseam.

[CDM_Stats]

Coaches have more tape analytics and knowledge of what the proper rotations. Plus more incentive to win since its their livelyhood why would they play the lesser player more.

Once upon a time Kerr wouldn't play Looney over James Wiseman. Kerr didn't give Kuminga real run until he complained. Kerr had Corey Joseph closing out a game against LeBron. Even Mark Jackson playing Jermaine O'Neal over Draymond cost us the series vs the Clippers.

Thinking that they always make the best decisions or that the decisions are always based on merit is just not true. They have their own biases and rotations are very political. Winning isn't the only way a coach keeps their job

Basketball is a billion dollar business which relies more on analytics and proven models. RealGmers are fans and more subjective.

Merit is subjective depending on your criteria.

heh

[Onus]

Once upon a time Kerr wouldn't play Looney over James Wiseman. Kerr didn't give Kuminga real run until he complained. Kerr had Corey Joseph closing out a game against LeBron. Even Mark Jackson playing Jermaine O'Neal over Draymond cost us the series vs the Clippers.

Thinking that they always make the best decisions or that the decisions are always based on merit is just not true. They have their own biases and rotations are very political. Winning isn't the only way a coach keeps their job

Basketball is a billion dollar business which relies more on analytics and proven models. RealGmers are fans and more subjective.

Merit is subjective depending on your criteria.

heh

Based on the past 2 seasons it really makes you question if we even have an analytics department. And since we do, what’s the point of them if Kerr or someone else is overriding them because of contracts.

[watch1958]

Basketball is a billion dollar business which relies more on analytics and proven models. RealGmers are fans and more subjective.

Merit is subjective depending on your criteria.

heh

Based on the past 2 seasons it really makes you question if we even have an analytics department. And since we do, what’s the point of them if Kerr or someone else is overriding them because of contracts.

I’d guess the analytics is fine, and that Kerr isn’t so much overriding it.

Instead, he’s only hearing a simple version and then picking what he wants.

For example, how many times did he talk about the starting 5 last year having the best net rating?

Never any deeper dive into what that one metric means.

[michaelm]

In the first two months, Klay and Wiggins were some of the worst players in the league and played with impunity. Looney this season wuldn't even get game time as the center backup in nearly every other team. That's not subjective, it's how they've played.

Not everything can be hidden under the guise of subjectivity. Pop is one of the 3 best coaches of all time and made one of the dumbest substitutions in NBA history in 2012. Coaches like everyone else make mistakes. Kerr has been making a ton of them.

Once again a difference between a realgm fan who habe more recency bias and a professional coach. Wiggins and Klay main drop off is in the area of shooting the 3. There is great history and likelyhood they would return closer to the norm. Kerr is statistically one of the greatest 3pt shooters ,#1 in pct, and understands this more than most anyone.

No the main drop off was on every single aspect early on, especially for Wiggins. He was diabolically poor defensively. This isn't a recency bias, it's based on what is happening. If Klay all of the sudden finishes the season as a 43% 3P shooter by the end of the season, it doesn't change all the issues that come with him logging heavy minutes.

What you're describing is far and away one of the most obnoxious points anybody ever mentions on realgm. Don't question a coach, GM, CEO because they've been doing it while everyone here hasn't. It's stuck on the point that they can't be wrong and some random person (or thousands) can't see it. Everyone makes mistakes, and some are awful. Which is why CEOs step down, GMs/coaches get fired, and players get traded.

Kerr's 3 and 4 guard lineup as an example is a failure, and him being a crazy successful coach doesn't mean that it's not a failure.It doesn't mean it's not a failure because I or any other schmuk on here that can see it. It's an objectively idiotic tactical move that he keeps repeating ad nauseam.

It is said there are only 2 types of coaches, those who have been fired and those who will be fired.

Sure the sacking of coaches can be capricious and involve politics, but sometimes is because an organisation is looking for someone who can do a better job, and I don’t see how anyone can argue an NBA coach is infallible right up until the moment he is fired for reasons similar to those for which he has been criticised, which is essentially what is being said. Was everything Mark Jackson did as coach of GSW completely correct for his whole tenure ?.

Sure organisations should operate professionally and
not on the basis of fan opinion cf the Monta trade, and players shouldn’t operate on the basis of fan opinion either, cf KD leaving GSW imo. Fans are allowed to speculate however, this forum is not called RealGM for no reason, and it is not impossible for them to be correct, or for even a great coach to get stale and set in his ways.

What did annoy me was negativity on here in the halcyon days of GSW, but the record of the team this season including the closing line-up losing despite previous big leads hardly backs up any claim that Kerr et al are operating so subtly that what they are doing is not obvious to the common herd. If he does have a whole season plan that comes to fruition all power to him as in 2022. I personally can’t see a plan which puts major reliance on Klay returning to playing the all round game he played 5 years ago prior to his injuries for heavy minutes succeeding however.

[Sandy333]

GSW needs a Draymond replacement/backup and TJD is not. Manytimes now Draymond had to subbed back early for TJD. Steve and TJD needs to develop further so can he can play as TJD instead of trying to fill Draymonds role which is very difficult.

[CDM_Stats]

Basketball is a billion dollar business which relies more on analytics and proven models. RealGmers are fans and more subjective.

Merit is subjective depending on your criteria.

heh

Based on the past 2 seasons it really makes you question if we even have an analytics department. And since we do, what’s the point of them if Kerr or someone else is overriding them because of contracts.

My experience is obviously very limited, but I have talked with ACs, people peripherally involved in analytics and BBOps, and from what I heard, the discourse isnt much different than twitter or RGM. Old heads vs analytics, doubling down on bad ideas, stubbornness, etc etc

Its glamourized because of their pay but its not much different. Same w medical facilities.. I've worked in dingy ones and loaded ones. Same disagreements about treatment, rehab, all of it

[CDM_Stats]

heh

Based on the past 2 seasons it really makes you question if we even have an analytics department. And since we do, what’s the point of them if Kerr or someone else is overriding them because of contracts.

I’d guess the analytics is fine, and that Kerr isn’t so much overriding it.

Instead, he’s only hearing a simple version and then picking what he wants.

For example, how many times did he talk about the starting 5 last year having the best net rating?

Never any deeper dive into what that one metric means.

Honestly up until this year, I believed the Warriors were in the forefront of applicable analytics. I'm not as sure of that anymore. No idea who to point a finger at, but just know that I was wildly disappointed in how this year unfolded and there's a lot of data that says we should be better

[Onus]

heh

Based on the past 2 seasons it really makes you question if we even have an analytics department. And since we do, what’s the point of them if Kerr or someone else is overriding them because of contracts.

My experience is obviously very limited, but I have talked with ACs, people peripherally involved in analytics and BBOps, and from what I heard, the discourse isnt much different than twitter or RGM. Old heads vs analytics, doubling down on bad ideas, stubbornness, etc etc

Its glamourized because of their pay but its not much different. Same w medical facilities.. I've worked in dingy ones and loaded ones. Same disagreements about treatment, rehab, all of it

I kind of get it. It’s hard to bench a franchise legend one on a 40 m contract and looking for another big contract. Kerr really did give Klay as long of a leash as possible to hope he can find something. I mean they knew Klay was declining and tried to hide him which cratered the defense. We just have to hope Kerr is over it and is trying to win games from here on out. But I’m not sure, I kind of hate our bench unit at times.

[superunknown]

he needs to play. tonight was great. again. like in the (first) utah game. he gives the team something other big men in the roster cannot.

[CDM_Stats]

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[Impuniti]

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Can we get Dray to do lineups from now, he can't be doing worse.

[oaktownwarriors87]

All-Time WS/48 leaders for rookies. Minimum 69 games played.

Wilt Chamberlain .245
David Robinson .241
Arvydas Sabonis .233
Walt Bellamy .233
Clifford Ray .222
Michael Jordan .213
Oscar Robinson .210
Trayce Jackson-Davis .200 *needs to play every remaining game to get 69


Nice.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Read on Twitter

How about they just play Draymond and TJD together?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Klay is not a good passer except for when Klay is passing to Trayce.

I is a strange idea. Nobody was backing me up on this strange idea that Klay and Trayce have something together. Then I listened to a Draymond interview where Draymond backs up my strange idea that Klay and Trayce have something together.

https://youtu.be/Xw8R0zIeNF0
Dray talking about Trayce at 5:06

[CDM_Stats]

Read on Twitter

How about they just play Draymond and TJD together?

Its worked in the past. Its a niche lineup for sure, but Kerr avoids certain niche lineups (ones with young players) and leans into them heavily with vets. Typically smaller vets, which means you're trying to get quicker. However when 2 of those smaller players are a nearly 40 CP3 and a wing with 2 massive injuries to his legs, not sure we're even breaking even on that

When Kerr gets hit in the mouth, he goes with offense, not defense. And that needs to change, at least sometimes

[Mac1958]

GSW needs a Draymond replacement/backup and TJD is not. Manytimes now Draymond had to subbed back early for TJD. Steve and TJD needs to develop further so can he can play as TJD instead of trying to fill Draymonds role which is very difficult.

I think it would be a big mistake to expect TJD, or anyone else, to fill Draymond's role. Green is a unicorn, a unique player who won't be replicated going forward by anyone.

It would be totally unfair if TJD is penalized for not being Draymond Green. The (very) good news is that there are some important similarities, and TJD should be coached up and allowed to maximize his obvious assets.

The team dynamic will have to change post-Green. BBIQ will hopefully remain a very high priority. I think TJD was a freakin' steal, and I'm very hopeful he's can be our 4/5 going forward. Personally, I'd like to see him at the 4, paired with a full-sized, shot-blocking center with range (Myles Turner would be the prototype) so that TJD can do his thing inside on offense.

[Sandy333]

I agree, but he is being expected to be play like draymond due to our roster/ coaching deficiencies.

[sonnyhill]

I'd like to understand Kerr's reasoning not to play Trayce today against Zubac. Seemed like a good time for him to come in and be big.

Dray at center with Kuminga Wiggins and Curry was beating the other teams until the Clipper game where Draymond waa minus 12 the worst, kuminga and Wiggins minus 9 and Curry minus 6 because Curry was playing with those guys.

Our guys were awake and sharp recently until the Clippers game. Draymond beat Nurkic but Draymond did not beat Zubac.

We don’t get slow with Trayce. I would have played Trayce. Zubac was 2nd best plus minus for the Clippers. Zubac might not be a good match up for Draymond.

Trayce Dray Kuminga Wiggins Curry means one of Wiggins or Kuminga is defending guards but I think both Wiggins and Kuminga can defend guards.

Also, with your proposed lineup, Wiggins can offensively exploit smaller and less athletic guards, especially on the block as well as on the glass.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

GSW needs a Draymond replacement/backup and TJD is not. Manytimes now Draymond had to subbed back early for TJD. Steve and TJD needs to develop further so can he can play as TJD instead of trying to fill Draymonds role which is very difficult.

I think it would be a big mistake to expect TJD, or anyone else, to fill Draymond's role. Green is a unicorn, a unique player who won't be replicated going forward by anyone.

It would be totally unfair if TJD is penalized for not being Draymond Green. The (very) good news is that there are some important similarities, and TJD should be coached up and allowed to maximize his obvious assets.

The team dynamic will have to change post-Green. BBIQ will hopefully remain a very high priority. I think TJD was a freakin' steal, and I'm very hopeful he's can be our 4/5 going forward. Personally, I'd like to see him at the 4, paired with a full-sized, shot-blocking center with range (Myles Turner would be the prototype) so that TJD can do his thing inside on offense.

I see TDJ as our speed center or our big powerforward.

Kuminga won’t be as smart as Draymond on defense and Kuminga does not rebound as well as Draymond even though Kuminga should be able to rebound but Kuminga can score better than Draymond. Kuminga can not pass like Draymond but Podz can be the passer when Draymond sits. I am fine with Kuminga being the power forward when Draymond is not available even though Kuminga is very different than Draymond.

You can not replace Draymond. When Draymond is gone things will have to change. Who in NBA history was a point power forward and also such a smart defender? There never was anybody like Draymond.