RealGM

the fish stinks from the head.
ownership is to blame. light years ahead my ass, they deliberately and inesorably weaken this franchise over the last 10 years, the makers of this dynastic version of the dubs are no longer here and the results are here to be seen.
the rest is just a consequence of this, from the coaching staff to the dray lack of accountability and the klay situation and the cherry on top of kerr's extension.
lacob gives and takes away.

superunknown wrote:the fish stinks from the head.
ownership is to blame. light years ahead my ass, they deliberately and inesorably weaken this franchise over the last 10 years, the makers of this dynastic version of the dubs are no longer here and the results are here to be seen.
the rest is just a consequence of this, from the coaching staff to the dray lack of accountability and the klay situation and the cherry on top of kerr's extension.
lacob gives and takes away.

They deliberately weakened the team during 4 title seasons?

Your meds, take them.

Age deserves the blame. And the after effects of Klay’s injuries.

And the bad 2 timelines idea. If you correctly asses that Wiseman had a 50% probability and even if he met his potential he would not really be on Curry’s timeline then you do something more conservative to try to get Curry over the top.

Kerr is OK. Playing Moody does not fix anything so what dud Kerr do wrong? Moody was just a pipe dream. Moody is just an average NBA 15 minute per game 8th man. Kerr played Podz and Trayce which kills the Kerr won’t play rookies theory.

Not saying that Kerr is a top 10 coach but I do not think Kerr is a bottom 10 coach.

whatisacenter wrote:It seems like most of you think this was a good roster with a poor coach.

Kerr wasn't great but this roster was going anywhere from the jump.

I don't think most of us think the roster was great. But, the way you move on from old players is by giving the young guys a shot, especially when they are doing well. Steve consistently over played Klay (and at times CP3) and vets like that rapist guy 2 years ago. Maybe we'd be talking about Klay wanting a trade if he had gotten benched and played his appropriate minutes awhile ago. Maybe Moody/Kuminga look better with more playing time, and it's easier to move on from some old guys.

I think there was maybe 1 guy who thought we'd win a chip last season in the poll. Almost everyone has felt the roster needed to be improved, and we need less old guy minutes. I'm not saying Steve is #1 to blame, but I also hate trying to pick one person to assign the most blame. It's a bunch of factors intermingled -- FO decisions, the coach, players attached to each other.

Mark Jackson could have coached this team to 38 wins. SVG, 42.

There's a lot of blame to go around, but how anyone can pick anyone but Kerr when you can only choose one is beyond me. He's been a disaster in SO many ways. I respect the guy as a decent person and I respect his career but he's been so lost the last couple of years, I don't know how you recover from that without starting over from scratch. Like 90% of the choices he made were the wrong call and that's not even counting the many things he never saw, or saw too late. His blind loyalty to the vets, while perhaps endearing, is the final nail in the coffin.

LOL at Lacob & Sons getting any blame from 3 people. He's paying millions of dollars in luxury tax for a non playoff team.

cdubbz wrote:LOL at Lacob & Sons getting any blame from 3 people. He's paying millions of dollars in luxury tax for a non playoff team.

Agree. Blaming an owner when it's 2nd highest payroll in the league lol.

BTW....as far as I'm concerned the "head" is Draymond. He has his fingers in everything on this team....a dominant personality. He literally KNOCKED out a promising young player who wouldn't take his chit....then strangled a dude and got tossed for 20 games....

Draymond is a dark cloud on this team and Dunleavy needs to dump his ass and turn the corner. To hope Draymond will be a better dude and a better player....is just stupid at this point in his career.

billinder33 wrote:

superunknown wrote:the fish stinks from the head.
ownership is to blame. light years ahead my ass, they deliberately and inesorably weaken this franchise over the last 10 years, the makers of this dynastic version of the dubs are no longer here and the results are here to be seen.
the rest is just a consequence of this, from the coaching staff to the dray lack of accountability and the klay situation and the cherry on top of kerr's extension.
lacob gives and takes away.

They deliberately weakened the team during 4 title seasons?

Your meds, take them.

yes. slowly and inesorably since 2014.
the foundations (and the core) of the team that won 4 titles in the last decade were built by people that are not longer part of this organization. lacob&Co. just rode that as long as they could, adding KD in the summer of 2016 was something anyone could've done given his contract status and the team cap situation that summer.
the only moves they really nailed in the last decade was drafting poole in late round (it took time to pan out but eventually was key in winning the chip in 2022) and OPJ and bjelica min deals signing in 2021.
now maybe dunleavy jr. (new GM in more than 10 years) nailed 2 moves with podz and TJD. that's pretty much it.

the ones should take some meds are the people actually in charge of the basketball operations and the fans like you.

ILOVEIT wrote:

cdubbz wrote:LOL at Lacob & Sons getting any blame from 3 people. He's paying millions of dollars in luxury tax for a non playoff team.

Agree. Blaming an owner when it's 2nd highest payroll in the league lol.

BTW....as far as I'm concerned the "head" is Draymond. He has his fingers in everything on this team....a dominant personality. He literally KNOCKED out a promising young player who wouldn't take his chit....then strangled a dude and got tossed for 20 games....

Draymond is a dark cloud on this team and Dunleavy needs to dump his ass and turn the corner. To hope Draymond will be a better dude and a better player....is just stupid at this point in his career.

The owner is at fault when he gets involved in aspects that he shouldn't or is passive when he needs to be decisive.

Wild card answer is Bob Myers. The guy took no risks. During his time, Lacob referenced Bill Walsh trading your stars one year early rather than 1 year too late. I suspect Myers didn’t have it in him and was feeling pressured so he quit instead.

Good on him to at least stick around and train up Mike D. So far he’s been more aggressive imo.

I really think the issues from this season are a result of poor management the year before. The time to swing for the fences was after the last championship.

Now we’re here. Not much we can do imo. I wanted to move off Dray and Klay last year. Hoping for drastic changes this off-season with very low expectations for improvements next year. Unfortunately, I see this team being a low end play in team to a lotto team for the rest of Curry’s career.

If Kerr cannot coach the sort of talent required to win in this league then he deserves most of the blame. All he seems to know how to coach are undersized IQ guards/forwards. Cannot seems to find a fit for bigger sized and better athletes on the team if they cannot do what he wants. Doesn't matter if Steph and co gets abused on defense and offense or no one on the team can drive or dunk the ball

The rest of the blame goes to the FO for building the flawed roster and not attempting to trade for better players thinking Saric/Cp will actually provide the impact needed to go over the top and third to the ownership for meddling too much but they get a bit less because they are the ones that paid luxury tax for this non playoff team

BayAreaDub wrote:Wild card answer is Bob Myers. The guy took no risks. During his time, Lacob referenced Bill Walsh trading your stars one year early rather than 1 year too late. I suspect Myers didn’t have it in him and was feeling pressured so he quit instead.

Good on him to at least stick around and train up Mike D. So far he’s been more aggressive imo.

I really think the issues from this season are a result of poor management the year before. The time to swing for the fences was after the last championship.

Now we’re here. Not much we can do imo. I wanted to move off Dray and Klay last year. Hoping for drastic changes this off-season with very low expectations for improvements next year. Unfortunately, I see this team being a low end play in team to a lotto team for the rest of Curry’s career.

You and I picked the same person to 'blame', but I disagree that Meyers wasn't a risk taker. Shaun Livingston, Wiseman, Kuminga, Wiggins, CP3... I think Bob tended to embrace risk more than we all here give credit. People see his failing the past two years in his loyalty to guys that brought him 4 titles. But when someone builds a wildly successful personal brand around cultivating long-term relationships, it's hard just to stop on a dime and become a total 'it's just business' cutthroat.

I also don't like the Bill Walsh comparisons at all, and basketball leans more toward relationship leaders than cutthoat leadership for a variety of reasons. Basketball players have way more power in the employer-employee relationship, more career longevity, their decline tends to be a lot more gradual than NFL players, and (quarterback aside) good basketball players are much harder to replace than good NFL players. Aside from the rare franchise QB, individual basketball players have a more direct impact on ticket sales than individual football players. The NFL also has a much more rigid cap structure. IMO all these factors make decisions to let go of great basketball players much more difficult than it is in the NFL. In the NFL, a lot of times the hard salary cap effectively makes the decision for you.

It could have been argued (and was here on occasion) that the time to get rid of Klay and Dray was before the 2022 title. Or that the time to get rid of Steph is now because his contract is becoming more misaligned his level of play. Or that the time for the Lakers to get rid of Labron was 3 years ago after their 'bubble' title. The Patriots thought that getting rid of Brady in 2020 was smart. There was talk of Duncan and Manu being way too old before their 2014 title. And last offseason, despite the general consensus that his contract demands were ludicrous, most people here weren't clamoring to dump Klay . It was Dray that most people wanted to be rid of. In hindsight, dumping Dray and keeping Klay would have likely put us at the bottom of the West. All this say, decisions on most great but aging players just aren't clear until hindsight. GMs can and do get burned both ways.

The reason I picked Meyers had less to do with his decision to stay with 'The Core'(TM). It had more to do with the lack of a better surrounding cast. The 2022 title should have been a springboard to bringing in better supporting players. And while a lot of that probably had to do with Poole's near murder caught on camera, ultimately it was Meyers' job to stock the shelves.

billinder33 wrote:

BayAreaDub wrote:Wild card answer is Bob Myers. The guy took no risks. During his time, Lacob referenced Bill Walsh trading your stars one year early rather than 1 year too late. I suspect Myers didn’t have it in him and was feeling pressured so he quit instead.

Good on him to at least stick around and train up Mike D. So far he’s been more aggressive imo.

I really think the issues from this season are a result of poor management the year before. The time to swing for the fences was after the last championship.

Now we’re here. Not much we can do imo. I wanted to move off Dray and Klay last year. Hoping for drastic changes this off-season with very low expectations for improvements next year. Unfortunately, I see this team being a low end play in team to a lotto team for the rest of Curry’s career.

You and I picked the same person to 'blame', but I disagree that Meyers wasn't a risk taker. Shaun Livingston, Wiseman, Kuminga, Wiggins, CP3... I think Bob tended to embrace risk more than we all here give credit. People see his failing the past two years in his loyalty to guys that brought him 4 titles. But when someone builds a wildly successful personal brand around cultivating long-term relationships, it's hard just to stop on a dime and become a total 'it's just business' cutthroat.

I also don't like the Bill Walsh comparisons. Basketball players have a lot more longevity, their decline tends to be a lot more gradual than NFL players, and (quarterback aside) good basketball players are much harder to replace than good NFL players. The NFL also has a much more rigid cap structure. IMO all these factors make decisions to let go of great basketball players much more difficult than it is in the NFL. In the NFL, a lot of times the hard salary cap effectively makes the decision for you.

It could have been argued (and was here on occasion) that the time to get rid of Klay and Dray was before the 2022 title. Or that the time to get rid of Steph is now because his contract is becoming more misaligned his level of play. Or that the time for the Lakers to get rid of Labron was 3 years ago after their 'bubble' title. The Patriots thought that getting rid of Brady in 2020 was smart. There was talk of Duncan and Manu being way too old before their 2014 title. And last offseason, despite the general consensus that his contract demands were ludicrous, most people here weren't clamoring to dump Klay . It was Dray that most people wanted to be rid of. In hindsight, dumping Dray and keeping Klay would have likely put us at the bottom of the West.

Decisions on most great but aging players just aren't clear until hindsight. GMs can and do get burned both ways. The reason I picked Meyers had less to do with his decision to stay with 'The Core'(TM). It had more to do with the lack of a better surrounding cast. The 2022 title should have been a springboard to bringing in better supporting players. And while a lot of that probably had to do with Poole's near murder caught on camera, ultimately it was Meyers' job to stock the shelves.

The blame on Myers is more so to do with his inability to draft than getting rid of the core too late. We know Myers wasn't going to be able to get rid of the core which is why he left. At least he had the self awareness to know he couldn't do that part of the job and stepped down. I don't blame him about the core. I do blame him for 2021 draft. The Pelicans with 2 worse picks got 2 better players.

billinder33 wrote:Shaun Livingston, Wiseman, Kuminga, Wiggins, CP3

? None of these were risks

How was Shaun Livingston a risk? He had rehabbed and was balling out in Brooklyn before we signed him on a good deal

Drafting Wiseman wasn't a risk - Lamelo would have been the riskier, ballsier play. He was literally drafted for fit, they thought Lamelo was the higher potential, higher talent player

Kuminga wasn't a risk, what was a safer choice at that pick?

We got a pick AND Wiggins to get rid of DLo, that wasn't a risk. It turned out to be an incredible move, but even if Wiggins continued how he was it was a good move

And again, how is Poole for CP3 a risk?

The entire Myers era can be summed up by the first move he made as a GM, drafting the safer Harrison Barnes over Andre Drummond.

He was a neutered puppy dog. He made a few good moves and several bad ones, and much like Kerr, the important work happened before he got there.

Age is to blame.

Coxy wrote:Age is to blame.

I’m picking the Bronze Age.

HiRez wrote:There's a lot of blame to go around, but how anyone can pick anyone but Kerr when you can only choose one is beyond me. He's been a disaster in SO many ways. I respect the guy as a decent person and I respect his career but he's been so lost the last couple of years, I don't know how you recover from that without starting over from scratch. Like 90% of the choices he made were the wrong call and that's not even counting the many things he never saw, or saw too late. His blind loyalty to the vets, while perhaps endearing, is the final nail in the coffin.

Replace Kerr with any coach in history and what is our win total? Maybe +4-5 wins best case scenario.

The talent stinks and the roster construction is bad.

ShayDee wrote:If Kerr cannot coach the sort of talent required to win in this league then he deserves most of the blame. All he seems to know how to coach are undersized IQ guards/forwards. Cannot seems to find a fit for bigger sized and better athletes on the team if they cannot do what he wants. Doesn't matter if Steph and co gets abused on defense and offense or no one on the team can drive or dunk the ball

The rest of the blame goes to the FO for building the flawed roster and not attempting to trade for better players thinking Saric/Cp will actually provide the impact needed to go over the top and third to the ownership for meddling too much but they get a bit less because they are the ones that paid luxury tax for this non playoff team

I think mdj was right to say at the end of year that they don’t want to just add someone because they are tall. Just any journeyman tall guy isn’t helping this team, we need a gobert type and they sadly are in limited supply.

Let’s see what they can do in the off season

Coxy wrote:Age is to blame.

He's definitely a bit senile, but I don't think he's THAT old.