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Onus wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

Onus wrote:How do you track agility?

These guys are obviously elite athletes, but they aren't getting by people with handles per say. They're getting downhill, lowering a shoulder and bumping people off. I mean they can do a cross over, and Giannis has a nasty euro step, but for the most part they attack bodies.

Its tracked the same way any movement is, distance and time, after the event (the change of direction), relative to their top speed, and then regularized against the average for their position

And for PFs, they get by people with their handles more than most at their position. Now I do not know how they do handles metrics, but both LeBron and Giannis are top 4 at PF. I dont trust those kind of metrics as much though because thats awful subjective and they typically use things like unforced TOs, dribbles, contested dribbles, and things like that which leave a lot of margin for error

I mean I agree they handle the ball more than other pfs and don't really lose the ball comparatively to pfs. Also will amend that Zion does use a lot of fakes and hesitations to attack. I mean obviously these guys are able to attack off the dribble better than just about any other player let alone pfs, which makes them who they are. I'm just not sure they have to use wiggle or as much creativity to get their shots off because of their immense size differences.

JK has improved on being able to get downhill this year though.

CDM_Stats wrote:

Onus wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:
Its tracked the same way any movement is, distance and time, after the event (the change of direction), relative to their top speed, and then regularized against the average for their position

And for PFs, they get by people with their handles more than most at their position. Now I do not know how they do handles metrics, but both LeBron and Giannis are top 4 at PF. I dont trust those kind of metrics as much though because thats awful subjective and they typically use things like unforced TOs, dribbles, contested dribbles, and things like that which leave a lot of margin for error

I mean I agree they handle the ball more than other pfs and don't really lose the ball comparatively to pfs. Also will amend that Zion does use a lot of fakes and hesitations to attack. I mean obviously these guys are able to attack off the dribble better than just about any other player let alone pfs, which makes them who they are. I'm just not sure they have to use wiggle or as much creativity to get their shots off because of their immense size differences.

JK has improved on being able to get downhill this year though.

Its all relative.. when people thing agility, they'll think of the elite people (specifically, Kyrie) and comp to that. But think about all the starting PFs in the league.. how many have really solid handles and can change direction quickly?

Circling back to Kuminga, I think he's proven at this stage that he's a SF that can play some PF for stints, like Dray can play C. But you dont want him to live there, at least until the help defense and rebounding start happening, if they do. So its actually more important that he gets better on COD, especially defensively. Footwork is a huge part of it, but not the entirety

CDM_Stats wrote:

Onus wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:
Its tracked the same way any movement is, distance and time, after the event (the change of direction), relative to their top speed, and then regularized against the average for their position

And for PFs, they get by people with their handles more than most at their position. Now I do not know how they do handles metrics, but both LeBron and Giannis are top 4 at PF. I dont trust those kind of metrics as much though because thats awful subjective and they typically use things like unforced TOs, dribbles, contested dribbles, and things like that which leave a lot of margin for error

I mean I agree they handle the ball more than other pfs and don't really lose the ball comparatively to pfs. Also will amend that Zion does use a lot of fakes and hesitations to attack. I mean obviously these guys are able to attack off the dribble better than just about any other player let alone pfs, which makes them who they are. I'm just not sure they have to use wiggle or as much creativity to get their shots off because of their immense size differences.

JK has improved on being able to get downhill this year though.

Its all relative.. when people thing agility, they'll think of the elite people (specifically, Kyrie) and comp to that. But think about all the starting PFs in the league.. how many have really solid handles and can change direction quickly?

Circling back to Kuminga, I think he's proven at this stage that he's a SF that can play some PF for stints, like Dray can play C. But you dont want him to live there, at least until the help defense and rebounding start happening, if they do. So its actually more important that he gets better on COD, especially defensively. Footwork is a huge part of it, but not the entirety

Crazy-Canuck wrote:How many star small forwards are out there that can't dribble nor shoot?

How many power forwards that can't really rebound nor provide backline help?

HiRez wrote:

Crazy-Canuck wrote:How many star small forwards are out there that can't dribble nor shoot?

How many power forwards that can't really rebound nor provide backline help?

JK shooting % by distance:

0-3 75.0%
3-10 51.7%
10-16 39.8%
16-3P 35.5%
3P 31.6%

Not great, but not really horrendous either. And he only takes about 15% of his shots from 10 feet out to the 3P line (wisely avoiding lower percentage shots).

In terms of rebounding, among Warriors rotation players reb/36, he's behind only Loon, TJD, Draymond, Saric, and Podz (all taller than him except for Podz who has freakish rebounding instincts). Ahead of Moody, GP2, and Wiggs. Again, not spectacular but not really that bad either.

And he started the year horrendously, so both his shooting and rebounding certainly improved over the season.

RUN-TJM wrote:Thank god he is back. Changes our “sameness” offensively.

Now we need a healthy Wiggs and we could roll any team not called Denver or OKC out west.

vvoland wrote:

RUN-TJM wrote:Thank god he is back. Changes our “sameness” offensively.

Now we need a healthy Wiggs and we could roll any team not called Denver or OKC out west.

I actually like our chances vs OKC more than the Minnesota Naz Reids

michaelm wrote:

vvoland wrote:

RUN-TJM wrote:Thank god he is back. Changes our “sameness” offensively.

Now we need a healthy Wiggs and we could roll any team not called Denver or OKC out west.

I actually like our chances vs OKC more than the Minnesota Naz Reids

I agree.

RUN-TJM wrote:

michaelm wrote:

vvoland wrote:
I actually like our chances vs OKC more than the Minnesota Naz Reids

I agree.

SGA will slaughter us in a 7 game series. Chet and Williams up front is a bad match up for us. Defensively they have Wiggins Dort and Wallace to harass Steph. Heck even Giddey is playing his best ball.

For the T-Wolves, Edward’s is a little less imposing than SGA but we’ve shown we can shut down Gobert. KAT is soft and with potentially 7 games, we should be able to tell our team that Naz can shoot and requires close attention.

Although I admit, that last point is a bit weak as Naz has destroyed us many times now.

wco81 wrote:It will be interesting to see how Franz does in his first playoffs, the first for the Magic in years.

They are a very good defensive team but have limitations on offense.

One problem is that Franz has been 19% from beyond the arc since the all-star break.

Can he still have impact even if he can't make shots? He's good at getting to the hole, using his length.

He doesn't have the athleticism of Kuminga. Speaking of which, Zion showed a possible path for Kuminga, which was to attack AD, jumping into him and finishing repeatedly in their play-in games.

Obviously Zion is much more dynamic, with his mass and explosiveness. Kuminga doesn't have the mass to go downhill with that kind of force. Zion also can use some finesse, not always go into or through the defender because he can finish with either hand, both sides of the basket.

But in the Lakers game, he was going directly at AD and at the top of his jump, instead of trying to dunk he'd flip the ball in, using his body to shield the ball from the rim protector.

Kuminga obviously studies the moves of other players, like when he would do a low dribble crossover across the defender to get a good shot or draw the foul.

Even the best rim protectors can't be as effective if an athletic wing has a head start going downhill. The only thing they do is to try to get the ball as the driver is on a downward motion to dunk the ball and the shot-blocker and try to get the ball with before the offensive player stuffs it through the rim.

In that case, Zion didn't give AD a chance to get to the ball on a dunk attempt, instead just flipped it in so that AD couldn't block it, just goal tend because the ball would be coming down.

Onus wrote:

wco81 wrote:It will be interesting to see how Franz does in his first playoffs, the first for the Magic in years.

They are a very good defensive team but have limitations on offense.

One problem is that Franz has been 19% from beyond the arc since the all-star break.

Can he still have impact even if he can't make shots? He's good at getting to the hole, using his length.

He doesn't have the athleticism of Kuminga. Speaking of which, Zion showed a possible path for Kuminga, which was to attack AD, jumping into him and finishing repeatedly in their play-in games.

Obviously Zion is much more dynamic, with his mass and explosiveness. Kuminga doesn't have the mass to go downhill with that kind of force. Zion also can use some finesse, not always go into or through the defender because he can finish with either hand, both sides of the basket.

But in the Lakers game, he was going directly at AD and at the top of his jump, instead of trying to dunk he'd flip the ball in, using his body to shield the ball from the rim protector.

Kuminga obviously studies the moves of other players, like when he would do a low dribble crossover across the defender to get a good shot or draw the foul.

Even the best rim protectors can't be as effective if an athletic wing has a head start going downhill. The only thing they do is to try to get the ball as the driver is on a downward motion to dunk the ball and the shot-blocker and try to get the ball with before the offensive player stuffs it through the rim.

In that case, Zion didn't give AD a chance to get to the ball on a dunk attempt, instead just flipped it in so that AD couldn't block it, just goal tend because the ball would be coming down.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OrlandoMagic/s/K2gpbr9k3O

B-King wrote:JK has an explosiveness that no other Warrior has. Unless it is for star player that us makes the Dubs really relevant, I don't see how you can move him this off season. He is the foundation piece for a post Curry Warrior team. TJD and Podz have had a nice rookie campaign, but they are complimentary players for now.