Impuniti wrote:vvoland wrote:Impuniti wrote:It's insanity. The coach and a group of fans stumbling falling trying to justify Klay whose now a crappy player that starts purely on what he's done years ago.
What's insane is "fans" of this team killing klay for putting up damian lillard shooting splits with better defense. Instead they want a rookie who's too short to play on-ball defense because he tries hard and moves the ball. After a decade plus of being a 20pt scorer, including last season and this month; after leading the league in 3's made on 40%+; 18 months after being a key cog in a championship team, the fan sentiment is "trade him for scraps cuz we have a 6'3 rookie than can pass the ball."
Really grabbing on to dear life with Dame analogy huh?
Klay is shooting 1% above league average TS. HIs offense is atrocious. Klay is a 57% TS and Dame at 60% while averaging a lot more points and can still playmake. Saying that, Dame having his issues is a large reason why people are skeptical that Bucks can with the way he's playing.
You talk about 1 1/2 years ago Klay was one of the key cogs to win a championship. Yes, but in real life players fall off very quickly in their early to mid 30s. This happens all the time, as it's happened to Klay who likely is affected even more due to his injuries. Looney was also as important as Klay in that 22 run, and Looney is awful this season. He wouldn't even make a top 50 center this season with his embarrassing performances. Should we just wait it until Steph's 38, 39 and hope these guys get there?
If Klay gave up a straight line drive to lebron w/ under 5 seconds left OR took an above the break 3 with 20 on the shotclock, less than a minute in the game AND a 2 pt LEAD, Klay would be getting murdered. If he did that in the same game? Some of you might actually assault the man (joke). But since it's everyone's favorite polish sausage, it's not even mentioned. Patrick MFing Beverly absolutely COOOOOOKED podz on multiple occasions last night, no reason to bring it up let's just trash Klay cuz he missed the game and we blew out a very banged up Philly team on the 2nd night of a B2B.
The closing lineup that night was atrocious. Podz also is getting overrated, but I don't want him to be the regular starter for the Warriors. He's just a backup that should play less. In a previous post, I'm certain I said he should be on 10MPG. You keep mentioning Podz getting cooked like Klay hasn't been BBQ all year. He has. He is garbage defender. The amount that he misses on a game to game basis is astounding. All the time. The defense consistently scrambles trying to make up for his space cadet airhead plays or lack thereof. The issue is even worse since Steph has gotten so bad defensively, and an elite team can't cover two guys playing bad defense. Steph isn't getting traded, so option B should.
What would you say if Klay was shooting 60% from the line but kept taking the ball from 90% FT shooters to shoot technicals AND kept missing them. Wouldn't the discourse be around how selfish he is, his big ego, how he only cares about his stats, etc? Where's the hate towards Podz for doing this exact thing (AS A ROOKIE) until Steph/Klay had enough and told him after the last miss, you're not taking these again.
Klay is without question and it's not subjective, one of the most arrogant and entitled players in the league. Both in terms of his personality and on court play. That's not up for debate. Anyone that thinks otherwise is flat out delusional. Podz is likely not getting much hate because nobody seriously expects a little rookie to do much, at this point we're all surprised he's given as much as he has so far.
I actually like Podz. I don't think he's an NBA starting level guard but he may get there one day. I don't think there's any objective basketball fan that thinks Podz is a starting level guard RIGHT NOW. Like any rookie, Podz gets lost in rotations, helps off the wrong shooter and is slow to close out when he realizes his mistakes. Those things should improve with time. The biggest problem I see is he's too slow laterally to guard point guards and way too small to guard anyone else. When he closes out, he's often too short to bother the shot and outside of playing passing lanes (very good) and charges (best in the league?) his defense is porous. I don't see how it dramatically improves given his physical tools. Offensively, he's not a confident shooter, has no pull up, no mid range and is a spot up 3 or drive to the rim type of player. I can't even imagine the conversation if Klay kept trying that running hook on people significantly bigger than him and was shooting as poorly as Podz is. He really shouldn't be playing as much as he is, but nobody can understand what Kerr is doing this season.
P.S. from 10-20 ft Podz is shooting 17%; Klay's at 47%.
I agree with some of the issues you have with Podz as well. He's not a starter level player. Neither is Klay. The problem is that Podz doesn't have the offense revolve around him or his feelings when he plays like mother Steven is doing with his son Klay. You don't have odd situations where the offense is focused on getting him "going" rather than just running plays. I have several issues with Podz and think he's grossly being overplayed.
You're right though, Klay, the 43.2 million a year player would get a bit more hate than a 1st year whose still learning how to play basketball on 3.3 million a year. Is that surprising? Is anyone on this board actually advocating for starting Podz on a regular basis and thinking that the team can compete in that scenario? A single poster? Because I don't know why you're making an argument nobody else is making.
I like this. I may not agree with most of your points but I appreciate you making an point by point rebuttal.
I bring up Lillard because Klay has always been a much better shooter (not scorer or creator) than Lillard but doesn't get the credit for that. As you said, he's currently 1% ABOVE league average TS and that is somehow also "atrocious." I believe the quote earlier was, his offense was "complete garbage." There is some serious cognitive dissonance going on for those sentences to be written. Dame's issues
are the reason the league is skeptical of the bucks but those issues are
defensive; no one has brought up the fact that Lillard is shooting in the low 40s as the reason to doubt the bucks.
Klay was an important player 18months ago on a team that won the champioship. He also carried this team offensively for the last 4 months of last year. he put up 25ppg on shooting splits Lillard can only dream of. Yes he ran out gas in the playoffs but we can roast him for the latter while still recognizing the former.
The closing lineup in the LAL game WAS atrocious - their defensive rating was in the 180s, I believe. But so have a ton of lineups this year, Kerr has not being pushing the right buttons and the play of the wings/looon and Dray's absence hasn't done Klay any favors.
You think Klay is one of the most entitled players in the league? Not Lebron, or JP3 (who literally said his legacy is secure), or Keven Porter Jr. who's out of the league because of his entitlement? Not Ja (who just loves guns too much), or Zion (who can't stop eating), or dozens of other players I won't care to mention? Klay's been a pro his entire career, was one of the best 2 guards of his generation, never demanded a bigger role (wiseman, JK, and that's just on GSW), never wanted his own team (kyrie), never flipped out like Dray, the list goes on and on.
I think you're confusing his shot selection and emotional transparency with ego. Does he still think he's prime Klay? maybe. Does he think he should be option 1a and jack up 20 shots? Definitely not since that players only meeting early last season. He's prideful and, to be honest, I don't blame him. He doesn't become the player he was/is without that pride. I wish wigs had a bit more of that in him and dray a little less. And you artfully dodged my question. If Klay did what Podz did, as a rookie, taking the ball from established FT shooters and missing technicals, in close games, what would be the narrative?
I don't care about their salaries, we paid them what we paid them. The only thing that matters is which of these players can help us win games. The fact that Podz is a rookie and hasn't proven that he can contribute in high leverage situations while Klay has a decade+ and 4 rings
should warrant a longer leash. That said, I think both have a large role to play, Klay as a starter and Podz as a combo guard off the bench (a bit like Poole in our 21-22 season in fewer mins and w/ a different skill set). When moody comes back and IF he is playing better than Klay, I wouldn't mind seeing him start. But that's a huge change for the team and not one that Kerr will, or should, take lightly.
All that said, Podz, for the last few weeks, has been the only alternative to starting Klay. Moody, GP2, and cp3 all hurt so unless people are advocating for starting wigs or jk at the 2 with TJD or Loon at the 5, who are you putting in as the 2 for Klay? It's not like people haven't been clamoring to bench Klay for weeks, if not months. You can't say you want Podz to play 10 MPG while benching Klay and having Joseph and Q as the only other guards on the roster.
