Suns are done. Time to bring back KD?

[DAWill1128]

Just spit balling but I like how KD changes the dynamics of different lineups.

While the Suns failed and some of it is depth it’s also just a redundancy of talents and a lack of floor balance. Having three guys on the court together who all prefer to go iso from the wing who aren’t naturally pass first is a bit redundant. The bigger issue being a perimeter defensive unit of Beal, Booker, Allen which is small with nobody being a plus defender. We had CP3, Curry, Klay play together and it’s tough if none of your guys 1-3 are good at defense, even with the individual offensive talent. When you are hemorrhaging points teams usually turn around and force it on offense to keep pace and that throws off playing with a controlled pace, that’s how you get a lot of blowouts.

I am comfortable trading Kuminga because I am not sure how you balance the floor with him, Dray, and Wiggins. If you play Dray, Kuminga, and Wiggins together in the frontcourt it’s fine on offense but it doesn’t have the size to compete with some of these teams out West. If you slide TJD/Looney into a lineup with Dray, Kuminga, Wiggins it doesn’t have the floor spacing to compete at the top. You would need a big like Lauri or Towns just to get floor balance with those three, at minimum a guy like Turner or Lopez who can hit an outside shot.

KD brings some iso game. KD brings the size and shooting. KD is a strong enough shooter to play with a traditional center and slide Wiggins to shooting guard and still be able to shoot from outside and compete inside.

CP3+Looney+Kuminga+Podz+Picks how you see fit
For
KD

Or maybe you swap GP2 for Looney because you prefer size over perimeter defense. Maybe you swap Moody for Podz because you prefer a ball handler over a wing.

You can run a lineup with size to disrupt everything getting into the paint. Dray+KD+Center were an absolute terror on defense. All three guys able to provide length, switching inside, and help recovery to contest shots. That was a monster defense.

C TJD
PF Green
SF Durant
SG Wiggins
PG Curry
6th Thompson
7th GP2
8th Moody

Or you spread the floor completely out, just break teams with our motion offense and floor spacing. Get back to where you have enough outside shooting to break teams. Even lineups with Klay inserted with Curry and KD you have three guys being tightly face guarded, you have so much space for guys to get to good open spots on the floor.

C Green
PF Durant
SF Wiggins
SG Moody
PG Curry
6th Thompson
7th TJD
8th GP2

If it falls flat then you still can trade KD, Curry, Dray, Wiggins etc for a haul of picks. We can still have plenty of draft picks after going all in.

[CDM_Stats]

The more I honestly think about it, the more I'd prefer dealing Steph to a team like Orlando than acquiring KD. I mean if ORL offered something to the effect of Cole Anthony (filler), Anthony Black (prospect), and several future 1sts for him.. I'd be taking that. And then go right down the line to shopping Draymond and Wiggins, and really turning the page for the franchise

KD, like Klay, has had 2 significant leg injuries, including the Achilles. Which typically robs players of their last years. KD had a Jones fracture about a decade ago and an achilles rupture 5 years ago. The aftermath of the Jones fracture starting showing its head last year more so than year's previous.. just a lot of red flags. But as always, there's a price point which makes it worth the risk, but I'd argue that adding a single first-round pick of any kind is beyond the price point I would use

The part that's tough to reconcile is there is no statistical degradation.. yet. From a numbers standpoint, he looks fine. But as seen with Klay, the drop-off can be swift, and the last thing the Warriors need to do is spend FRPs trying to relive the glory years on a guy who's got the odds heavily against him in terms of being worth his salary/trade cost, from a health perspective

[vvoland]

The more I honestly think about it, the more I'd prefer dealing Steph to a team like Orlando than acquiring KD. I mean if ORL offered something to the effect of Cole Anthony (filler), Anthony Black (prospect), and several future 1sts for him.. I'd be taking that. And then go right down the line to shopping Draymond and Wiggins, and really turning the page for the franchise

KD, like Klay, has had 2 significant leg injuries, including the Achilles. Which typically robs players of their last years. KD had a Jones fracture about a decade ago and an achilles rupture 5 years ago. The aftermath of the Jones fracture starting showing its head last year more so than year's previous.. just a lot of red flags. But as always, there's a price point which makes it worth the risk, but I'd argue that adding a single first-round pick of any kind is beyond the price point I would use

The part that's tough to reconcile is there is no statistical degradation.. yet. From a numbers standpoint, he looks fine. But as seen with Klay, the drop-off can be swift, and the last thing the Warriors need to do is spend FRPs trying to relive the glory years on a guy who's got the odds heavily against him in terms of being worth his salary/trade cost, from a health perspective

Why the rush to start the tank? I guess a middling prospect and some late 1st round future picks offer some motivation to turn the page but, for me, trading the greatest player in franchise history to chase after young prospects in the lottery just doesn't sound like the right move. Does it put us in position to draft the next star? Probably not. Will we be a terrible team picking at the top of the draft once Curry and co age out? Most likely. Would I rather watch these guys finish their careers as warriors despite not winning another title as opposed to JK, Moody and a bottom 5 record? Most definitely. If Steph goes nuclear on a different team and I have to watch him put Orlando on the map, will that outweigh any potential benefit Anthony, Black and some future pick(s) provide? 100%.

[thunderdunk]

Without Curry, this team isn't worth watching, and the whole franchise value goes in the tank. They'll never trade Curry unless he demands it. Even then, it would take a LOT from the other team (like the Gobert trade, except maybe more so) unless Curry is badly injured, at which point all bets are off. It took GS 40 years to get another ring after their previous championship team. You don't just decide to trade a superstar for a bunch of picks unless you're totally out of other ideas. They need to figure out how to max out Curry's remaining years.

[CDM_Stats]

The more I honestly think about it, the more I'd prefer dealing Steph to a team like Orlando than acquiring KD. I mean if ORL offered something to the effect of Cole Anthony (filler), Anthony Black (prospect), and several future 1sts for him.. I'd be taking that. And then go right down the line to shopping Draymond and Wiggins, and really turning the page for the franchise

KD, like Klay, has had 2 significant leg injuries, including the Achilles. Which typically robs players of their last years. KD had a Jones fracture about a decade ago and an achilles rupture 5 years ago. The aftermath of the Jones fracture starting showing its head last year more so than year's previous.. just a lot of red flags. But as always, there's a price point which makes it worth the risk, but I'd argue that adding a single first-round pick of any kind is beyond the price point I would use

The part that's tough to reconcile is there is no statistical degradation.. yet. From a numbers standpoint, he looks fine. But as seen with Klay, the drop-off can be swift, and the last thing the Warriors need to do is spend FRPs trying to relive the glory years on a guy who's got the odds heavily against him in terms of being worth his salary/trade cost, from a health perspective

Why the rush to start the tank? I guess a middling prospect and some late 1st round future picks offer some motivation to turn the page but, for me, trading the greatest player in franchise history to chase after young prospects in the lottery just doesn't sound like the right move. Does it put us in position to draft the next star? Probably not. Will we be a terrible team picking at the top of the draft once Curry and co age out? Most likely. Would I rather watch these guys finish their careers as warriors despite not winning another title as opposed to JK, Moody and a bottom 5 record? Most definitely. If Steph goes nuclear on a different team and I have to watch him put Orlando on the map, will that outweigh any potential benefit Anthony, Black and some future pick(s) provide? 100%.

Not to start the tank, but to start accruing assets. Because odds are the next cornerstones arent going to be via FA or trade, its going to be through the draft. So get as many shots at it as you can

I dont like sentimentality in sports very much.. I feel like its an excuse for the team to coast on past achievements. And too often, teams dont recover very quickly. How long has it taken for San Antonio(TD), LA (Kobe) or Dallas (Dirk) to recover? And they only recovered by getting generational players in the top 3 of drafts - or in LA's case, using those top picks in a trade. I get why people can want that, but I dont believe in wasting value or time for those kinds of reasons

And if Steph goes off in Orlando at age 37-40.. good! Glad he can continue to compete for titles, because he sure isnt gonna do it here

[vvoland]

The more I honestly think about it, the more I'd prefer dealing Steph to a team like Orlando than acquiring KD. I mean if ORL offered something to the effect of Cole Anthony (filler), Anthony Black (prospect), and several future 1sts for him.. I'd be taking that. And then go right down the line to shopping Draymond and Wiggins, and really turning the page for the franchise

KD, like Klay, has had 2 significant leg injuries, including the Achilles. Which typically robs players of their last years. KD had a Jones fracture about a decade ago and an achilles rupture 5 years ago. The aftermath of the Jones fracture starting showing its head last year more so than year's previous.. just a lot of red flags. But as always, there's a price point which makes it worth the risk, but I'd argue that adding a single first-round pick of any kind is beyond the price point I would use

The part that's tough to reconcile is there is no statistical degradation.. yet. From a numbers standpoint, he looks fine. But as seen with Klay, the drop-off can be swift, and the last thing the Warriors need to do is spend FRPs trying to relive the glory years on a guy who's got the odds heavily against him in terms of being worth his salary/trade cost, from a health perspective

Why the rush to start the tank? I guess a middling prospect and some late 1st round future picks offer some motivation to turn the page but, for me, trading the greatest player in franchise history to chase after young prospects in the lottery just doesn't sound like the right move. Does it put us in position to draft the next star? Probably not. Will we be a terrible team picking at the top of the draft once Curry and co age out? Most likely. Would I rather watch these guys finish their careers as warriors despite not winning another title as opposed to JK, Moody and a bottom 5 record? Most definitely. If Steph goes nuclear on a different team and I have to watch him put Orlando on the map, will that outweigh any potential benefit Anthony, Black and some future pick(s) provide? 100%.

Not to start the tank, but to start accruing assets. Because odds are the next cornerstones arent going to be via FA or trade, its going to be through the draft. So get as many shots at it as you can

I dont like sentimentality in sports very much.. I feel like its an excuse for the team to coast on past achievements. And too often, teams dont recover very quickly. How long has it taken for San Antonio(TD) or Dallas (Dirk) to recover? And they only recovered by getting generational players in the top 3 of drafts. I get why people can want that, but I dont believe in wasting value or time for those kinds of reasons

And if Steph goes off in Orlando at age 37-40.. good! Glad he can continue to compete for titles, because he sure isnt gonna do it here

What makes you think trading duncan or dirk for middle of the road assets would make a difference? If the spurs traded Duncan and got a late lottery pick in 2018, does that make a difference? As you noted, their fortunes changed when they were able to pick a star at the top of the draft. There's a real argument to be made that if you bottom out, make sure you realllly bottom out and aren't stuck in the mid to late lottery every year. I'm not sure how anthony black and a late 1st from Orl helps us? Could it net us the next jokic or giannis? I'm going to say, probably not. Will it keep us out of the top 4 picks? also, probably not.

I don't know many spurs fans but the ones i heard on nba related podcasts generally regret letting parker finish his career in Charlotte a lot more than they regret keeping Manu and Timmy.

If Steph goes off in Orl and can compete for titles there, why can't he do it here? I know you're certain this team can't do it but everyone said the same thing after the last time we lost the play-in. That summer, it was 'trade dray and wigs for ben simmons' and 'the core is washed' blah blah blah... Unlike most people on this board, you think Dray is still a top level defensive player (I happen to agree). I think we'll both agree Steph is still a top level offensive player. Sure, there would need to be significant changes around the two of them and while I may not have a ton of faith in the FO making the right changes, it's a lot more faith that I do in our ability to find the next steph, even if we're picking 1st.

There are two ways this team competes once Steph leaves.

1. we super-tank once he's gone (won't be that hard), land a top 3 pick and hope other teams pass on that draft's luka or we get the no 1 pick in a wemby type draft.

2. we develop a reputation as a high class organization that will do what it takes to win, takes care of it's stars, and attracts the best players the way LAL or MIA does. We probably can't really compete with the cache of playing in LA or NYC but there's no reason we can't be up there with the Miamis or Bostons of the world.

Both seem unlikely which is why I would want to watch Steph in a warriors uni until he retires. We'll never see anyone that good put on a dubs jersey and I'm not in a rush to send him to Orlando. The rebuild will happen and sooner than most posters realize, just not next summer.

[CDM_Stats]

What makes you think trading duncan or dirk for middle of the road assets would make a difference?

disingenuous - more picks = more opportunities. Its not a guarantee because nothing is. But that uncertainty is better than the current situation. And that current situation being a high payroll team that went into the play-in healthy and didnt make it past step 1. And who says where those picks land anyways? I'm sure Brooklyn thought they'd be middle of the road assets when they traded their 1sts too

I don't know many spurs fans but the ones i heard on nba related podcasts generally regret letting parker finish his career in Charlotte a lot more than they regret keeping Manu and Timmy.
weird thing to care about, I prefer winning. Isn't that what we're talking about? Also Parker walked, wasn't dealt.

If Steph goes off in Orl and can compete for titles there, why can't he do it here? I know you're certain this team can't do it but everyone said the same thing after the last time we lost the play-in. That summer, it was 'trade dray and wigs for ben simmons' and 'the core is washed' blah blah blah... Unlike most people on this board, you think Dray is still a top level defensive player (I happen to agree). I think we'll both agree Steph is still a top level offensive player. Sure, there would need to be significant changes around the two of them and while I may not have a ton of faith in the FO making the right changes, it's a lot more faith that I do in our ability to find the next steph, even if we're picking 1st.
everyone said that? Because I was actually saying the opposite, using the same system I used to know that this season's late year run meant nothing, the same system that said we were a contender in 21-22 when some posters were actually wondering if they were a play-in team in March. Also again I'd really like it if you didn't speak for me, because I'm almost never saying the things you say I am. I do believe the odds are very much against this team doing much considering the head coach and current state of the roster. Maybe a miracle drops in our laps.. but I dont speak in certainties like that. I do in things like individual performance - for example, Dray's 3 year run in 2021-24 is better than any 3 year run he had previous to that. Or that Wiggins can provide all-star returns if he's paired with Dray and mostly off-ball. But overall point - I dont see things as random, a lot of what happens in the NBA can be reasonably predicted

There are two ways this team competes once Steph leaves.
There are countless ways this happens. It doesnt have to be a top anything pick, it has to be a great pick. Jokic was a 2nd. Maxey was a late 1st. Steph was mid-lottery. Draymond was a 2nd. But any way to build a contender is unlikely, that's why only 5-6 of 30 teams actually succeed at any given time. So best bet is to give yourself as many cracks at drafting those types of players. If no miracle drops in their laps in the offseason, the best bet for future success of the franchise is selling off the vets. It wont happen because sentimentality, but it’s the truth.

[whatisacenter]

I don't want to trade for KD unless it meant Draymond would be sent packing.

Trading Curry is non starter for me.

[Onus]

The more I honestly think about it, the more I'd prefer dealing Steph to a team like Orlando than acquiring KD. I mean if ORL offered something to the effect of Cole Anthony (filler), Anthony Black (prospect), and several future 1sts for him.. I'd be taking that. And then go right down the line to shopping Draymond and Wiggins, and really turning the page for the franchise

KD, like Klay, has had 2 significant leg injuries, including the Achilles. Which typically robs players of their last years. KD had a Jones fracture about a decade ago and an achilles rupture 5 years ago. The aftermath of the Jones fracture starting showing its head last year more so than year's previous.. just a lot of red flags. But as always, there's a price point which makes it worth the risk, but I'd argue that adding a single first-round pick of any kind is beyond the price point I would use

The part that's tough to reconcile is there is no statistical degradation.. yet. From a numbers standpoint, he looks fine. But as seen with Klay, the drop-off can be swift, and the last thing the Warriors need to do is spend FRPs trying to relive the glory years on a guy who's got the odds heavily against him in terms of being worth his salary/trade cost, from a health perspective

Why the rush to start the tank? I guess a middling prospect and some late 1st round future picks offer some motivation to turn the page but, for me, trading the greatest player in franchise history to chase after young prospects in the lottery just doesn't sound like the right move. Does it put us in position to draft the next star? Probably not. Will we be a terrible team picking at the top of the draft once Curry and co age out? Most likely. Would I rather watch these guys finish their careers as warriors despite not winning another title as opposed to JK, Moody and a bottom 5 record? Most definitely. If Steph goes nuclear on a different team and I have to watch him put Orlando on the map, will that outweigh any potential benefit Anthony, Black and some future pick(s) provide? 100%.

Not to start the tank, but to start accruing assets. Because odds are the next cornerstones arent going to be via FA or trade, its going to be through the draft. So get as many shots at it as you can

I dont like sentimentality in sports very much.. I feel like its an excuse for the team to coast on past achievements. And too often, teams dont recover very quickly. How long has it taken for San Antonio(TD), LA (Kobe) or Dallas (Dirk) to recover? And they only recovered by getting generational players in the top 3 of drafts - or in LA's case, using those top picks in a trade. I get why people can want that, but I dont believe in wasting value or time for those kinds of reasons

And if Steph goes off in Orlando at age 37-40.. good! Glad he can continue to compete for titles, because he sure isnt gonna do it here

Kobe’s retirement tour last seasons were actually great for the lakers. They got to tank criticism free and got 3 no 2 picks in the process. It was actually brilliant.