Home game? Nawl leans in the Town 7:30 FSN 1/4/08

[Hopper15]

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Ellis is battling the flu bug.

[BROWN]

Cap'n Jack has got to start sailing his ship in the proper direction.

Dude's been on the wrong track these past games....

[mistatwo mayn]

Welll....

I'll say this much. I had a feeling Wright was gonna get some burn this game (didn't think he'd start).
Let me start off by saying the NBA needs to fine Violette Palmer's parents.
That said... WHY CAN YOU NOT HAVE HARRINGTON GUARD WEST??? Instead, West backs down Jax, who shoots or dishes to Peja who shoots over the midget formally known as Monta?
This just irked me soo much at the game.
And to you ****ing dumbass student body; I blame you for messing up all the chants going off beat and all that. You suck. Go back to school. You were terrible.
Barnes needs to stop shooting till his fingers heal; or just take time off all together. His shooting is horrid.
Jax... Terrible shooting.

Was I the only one who wanted to see more Pietrus this game?

[Sleepy51]

Welll....

I'll say this much. I had a feeling Wright was gonna get some burn this game (didn't think he'd start).
Let me start off by saying the NBA needs to fine Violette Palmer's parents.
That said... WHY CAN YOU NOT HAVE HARRINGTON GUARD WEST??? Instead, West backs down Jax, who shoots or dishes to Peja who shoots over the midget formally known as Monta?
This just irked me soo much at the game.
And to you ****ing dumbass student body; I blame you for messing up all the chants going off beat and all that. You suck. Go back to school. You were terrible.
Barnes needs to stop shooting till his fingers heal; or just take time off all together. His shooting is horrid.
Jax... Terrible shooting.

Was I the only one who wanted to see more Pietrus this game?

You hit on just about everything that mattered. Jax and Nellie lost this game. Bad chucking, weak D, but even worse matchups and lineup management.

[ILOVEIT]

Jackson was awful after a nice start. HIs shot has just been way off....but I'm sure that will come back around.

Let's face also...Monta being sick and contributing nothing made a win virtually impossible.

He was sick? The fact is he was not very good the last three games. I think teams are learning to just crowd him....don't let him have that open 15 footer..make it a 17 footer and he can't stroke it with any consistancy.

[FNQ]

Jackson was awful after a nice start. HIs shot has just been way off....but I'm sure that will come back around.

Let's face also...Monta being sick and contributing nothing made a win virtually impossible.

He was sick? The fact is he was not very good the last three games. I think teams are learning to just crowd him....don't let him have that open 15 footer..make it a 17 footer and he can't stroke it with any consistancy.

Monta has a smooth jumper out to twenty...

He took 3 shots, and he wasn't crowded at all. He didn't have the ball... Much as W's fans will cut Baron slack, he didn't make much of an effort to get his teammates involved. Sure he got 8 assists... playing the entire game and dominating the ball most of the time. He put himself in a scenario where he and he alone could bring the W's to a win.. and he couldn't do it.

Baron has it in his head that 4th quarter is his time only... Biedrins was just dominating in the post and got very little consideration.... I dunno why fans are defending Baron, W's aint a fantasy team

[FNQ]

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Ellis is battling the flu bug.

Damage control?

[Mylie10]

If Peja doesn't go off we're right in it even with our crappy play from a few of the main guys.

If monta is sick or injured he should just sit the eff down. I'd have rather Azu played more. Although he didn't do much either.

Pietrus actually played decently in the first half until his dumb foul to end the half.

The matchups were terrible overall.

Has anyone else noticed how well Baron plays bigger players?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The Warriors need all five guys scrambling on defense in order to win. One or two guys scrambling can't create chaos.

The only guy who shouldn't have been scrambling is the guy who guards Stojakovic. That guy has to stay with Stojakovic and not even think about doubling anybody.

Harrington had a great shooting night but he has to grab more than 3 defensive rebounds in 32 minutes.

[Sleepy51]

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Monta has a smooth jumper out to twenty...

He took 3 shots, and he wasn't crowded at all. He didn't have the ball... Much as W's fans will cut Baron slack, he didn't make much of an effort to get his teammates involved. Sure he got 8 assists... playing the entire game and dominating the ball most of the time. He put himself in a scenario where he and he alone could bring the W's to a win.. and he couldn't do it.

Baron has it in his head that 4th quarter is his time only... Biedrins was just dominating in the post and got very little consideration.... I dunno why fans are defending Baron, W's aint a fantasy team

Jack was the problem. Jack hits a shot or two or opts to distribute rather than burning posessions and Baron keeps passing.

Guys really can't afford to have a bad night playing with Baron because he turns into Bad Baron when the water gets choppy - this reaction to adversity is still his biggest real flaw - and what ultimately differentiates him from Kidd, Nash or Paul, who can all lift a struggling teammate's game much better than Bad Baron.

That's Baron in for better or worse. Ultimately, Nellie has to start limiting Jack's opportunity to shoot us out of games. He has a quick hook with everyone else when they look cold, and especially on a night where Jack's defense sucked as bad as it did, you have to sit him like anybody else.

[FNQ]

I agree... Jax obviously had a poor game and wasn't being much of a leader either. But people are saying Baron played well - he didn't. A leader shouldn't crumble when other players don't show up... Beans showed up, and he was largely ignored. Harrington showed up, and he was as well... Jax did more to get teammates involved than Baron did, IMO....

Baron's resiliency in these kinds of games is zero... its just frustrating as hell to see that we had a big man who was scoring well, and pretty easily I might add, and we ignored him. That's terrible basketball...

[Chris Cohan]

Baron had to educate the youngster.

Really encouraging to hear him calling him "son" in the early trash talk rounds when Baron couldn't miss a shot. Sort of put Baron's world in perspective. Yet again.

But, ultimately, regardless of what Jamal Mashburn has to say on the matter (Hey, Jamal and Baron. Have you two met?):

Paul >>>>>>>>>>> Baron

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

Injury risk is real with Paul, too, but the classic PG game-meets-high percentage scorer from all parts of the floor was the real deal before he ever hit the league.

And his defense is top tier, let's skip the moronic lies about that part of his game were they coming up next.

[sanddude909]

Anytime your main offensive weapon is a scorer and not a shooter, you run the risk of getting stagnant offensively as the scorer tries to score and hence doesn't get the rest of the team involved.

What I wish we had was someone who could be counted on to get a bucket when we need one, either a low post presence or a mid-range jump shooter.

Monta could be the jump shooter, in that he has shown improvement this year in his mid-range shot but he isn't there yet. And of course, as long as Nellie is here, we don't have the low post guy.

I agree with those who place the responsibility for this loss squarely on Baron and Jackson. We need both of them to be shooting well and distributing effectively to win. If only one of them is like that, we're in trouble but could still be winners.

But when both of them are shooting 3-17 and still dominating the ball, we're in deep deep trouble. They both have a mindset to shoot their way out of it, and that doesn't help the team.

[Souvlaki]

-= original quote snipped =-

Big strategic defensive mistake by Nellie. He should have had Monta on Paul (he played him pretty well) and put Baron on Peja (which would have been a much easier cover for him) which I can almost guarantee Peja wouldn't have lit it up the way he did today. Covering Paul and playing the entire game was way too much for Baron (surprised he didn't pull something today). This also would have put a lot more pressure on Paul (he would have had to keep up with Monta) and it would have gotten Monta in the game which he never did.

You're kidding me? Nelly took Monta out because his defense sucked ass.

[Souvlaki]

Baron had to educate the youngster.

Really encouraging to hear him calling him "son" in the early trash talk rounds when Baron couldn't miss a shot. Sort of put Baron's world in perspective. Yet again.

But, ultimately, regardless of what Jamal Mashburn has to say on the matter (Hey, Jamal and Baron. Have you two met?):

Paul >>>>>>>>>>> Baron

Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

Injury risk is real with Paul, too, but the classic PG game-meets-high percentage scorer from all parts of the floor was the real deal before he ever hit the league.

And his defense is top tier, let's skip the moronic lies about that part of his game were they coming up next.

Right on. You want to see a true all-star, look no further than Paul. That guy is the embodiment of someone that makes his teammates better. Baron's a volume shooter than makes an occasional flashy pass. It's no contest on who is the better player.

[turk3d]

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You're kidding me? Nelly took Monta out because his defense sucked ass.

Yeah, I'd like to see you play a guy 7 inches taller than you who all he does is shoot from the outside when defensively you're expected to help out on the double teams (because practically all of their other players can't guard their men or fight through the pick and rolls. This all for a 21 year old to have to figure out. If he sucked a$$ there was a bunch of other guys who sucked a$$ just as much. When you have a freakin' team defense that you play (for reason stated above) you can't pin it on just one guy (well I guess you can as you've proved here). After he came out their defense still sucked.

I'm getting tired of some of some people talking about the D of Monta Bukie being so terrible when aside from Jack, they are probably the best man defenders we have (Andris is another one who seems overwhelmed at times because he's usually the last defender who has to back up when the other guys lose their man). Other than that, I think you know what you're talking about Souvlaki although it seems that you're biased when it comes to certain players. If Monta was guarding someone his own size (i.e., Paul) we may have been able to win that game. Baron. as good as he is on certain players, has trouble with quicker guards if he has to play them the entire game. It's only when he plays them in spurts that he is able to effectively stop them. If you look back on previous games, you'll see that we had success when we used both Baron and Monta on guys like Nash and AI. When Baron has had to go the whole game on them, we usually lose (Paul and if I'm not mistaken Williams) because both times he tired out in the 4th quarter in part because of playing so many minutes.

This doesn't mean Baron sucks either. That's where it's up to your coach to use everyone properly which requries the use of you bench at the appropriate times. I don't care what he says about not having the players, if you don't have a bench, you're not going very far in the playoffs, even if you make it. We seem to be the only team out there that's not willing to utilize it. Nellie took Monta out not because of his defense, he took him out because of his offense (wasn't producing). Nobody's defense was anything to write home out there. And even Jack, the best defender we have, how many easy baskets do you think the Hornets got because of his bricks and ill-begotten shots. It may not look like bad defense, but it was the catalyst for the Hornets getting out quickly and beating the Warriors down the court while the Warriors were caught out of position. I don't care if he can guard a guy one on one, most of the time our defense didn't have a chance to get down and get set. Let's distibute the blame equally amongst them, if we're going to fair here.

[Chris Cohan]

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Right on. You want to see a true all-star, look no further than Paul. That guy is the embodiment of someone that makes his teammates better. Baron's a volume shooter than makes an occasional flashy pass. It's no contest on who is the better player.

Paul is special. Baron has some special qualities. Paul might well crap out after another year or two and never get it back. But this is his time now and this league works in five year windows, at BEST. Baron's passed and he got a nice revival tour last year... barely.

I don't know anything specific about Baron Davis' real feelings about Byron Scott, the Hornets organization, and now Chris Paul, nothing that hasn't been well-covered in standard outlets of conjecture, hearsay, and occasional substantive reporting (which is really all anyone ever has unless they're actually working that phone and actually writing that check-- misinformaiton reigns supreme, as we all know).

But I'll put my wholly individual estimate somewhere about here:
He takes games against the Hornets organization and his replacement entirely personally.

As much crap as this monkey flings at Davis-- deservedly sometimes, habitually other times-- he's still been one of our guys through some really great stuff and he still has real talent. I won't blame Nelson for everything minutes and roster effectiveness-wise this year (he was GREAT last year) because I DO know that Davis is in contract push mode and is happy to have enough minutes to hoist enough shots to score enough POINTS. He's into the chunky stats. This has been discussed at length. He actively discusses his assists total on the bench IN GAME sometimes. Ricky Davis is an example of cats who do this.

But, all in all, Davis will never be a centerpiece of a truly great team and that's OK. We know that. He was a low-risk rental who gave us all exactly what we needed last year. He can still dominate a bad team with the best playground ballaz in the game. Consider that rude, I would understand and I've had my ass handed to me in pickup games plenty over my storied non-competitive, soft working stiff career, but his intelligence and very sophisticated understandings of the game and the NBA playing field too rarely equate to solid team leadership and cohesive play. He has all of the tools but, consistently, every time, he fails to answer the call when the challenge really mounts and the opponent really presents an endgame scenario. He did it a few times as a youngster but the Dallas series was last year and, thoguh teams take the Warriors a little more seriously now and remember to stop the break, control the boards so the gimmicks don't get the better of them, it is a sinking ship if the leaders can only work their own tired, unintelligent offense when defenses clamp down on them.

And that is not worth any more years of stunted team development, in the opinion of one who tries to attend all home games and has done so since well before the Baron Davis era. I acknowledge the value Davis has brought to the franchize-- he's at the heart of all of the money Cohan makes these days. And I acknowledge that Mullin's hands are tied because he clearly does not do infrastructure and he clearly has a lot riding on squeezing some return out of killing his cap all those years, beginning with the Davis trade that guaranteed 1/4 of the cap would be blown on one player-- ON THE COURT OR NOT-- for a considerable slate of future seasons.

But we have seen what we get from this roster and those who appreciate a legitimate product see the writing on the wall:
Baron Davis is a marketable product but he is not a quality product in the realm of return on investment and reliable production at consistent levels.

[Sleepy51]

The Baron Davis debate comes down to this:

In the red corner - there are maybe 2 or 3 crazy fanboy videogame junkie teenageers who post here who feel like extending Davis at the predicted $20mil.

In the blue corner - there are maybe 1 1/2 crusty old "purist" jackoffs who hate Baron's personality so much that they undervalue his on court contribution and want to trade Davis for an expiring and an injury riddled 3rd tier PG today "for the future."

If you don't fall into either of these camps, how about we just stupulate that he's the best player we have access to at the position and we will have a ton of capspace when he expires after next season. Until then, let's stop rehashing the same tired sham arguments that he is either the devil incarnate or a perennial All Star? Theres been nothing new added to this discussion for most of 2 years, and at this point it makes for pretty boring and predictable reading,and it seemingly ALWAYS turns personal.

Shaddup already!

[crzy]

^^ There's definitely a lot more people in the "blue corner" on this message board, compared to other Warrior forums.

I can't believe there was an entire thread made advocating that we get rid of Baron Davis immediately after we lost to New Orleans, when Baron was the only reason we didn't lose by 100 points.

[turk3d]

The Baron Davis debate comes down to this:

In the red corner - there are maybe 2 or 3 crazy fanboy videogame junkie teenageers who post here who feel like extending Davis at the predicted $20mil.

In the blue corner - there are maybe 1 1/2 crusty old "purist" jackoffs who hate Baron's personality so much that they undervalue his on court contribution and want to trade Davis for an expiring and an injury riddled 3rd tier PG today "for the future."

If you don't fall into either of these camps, how about we just stupulate that he's the best player we have access to at the position and we will have a ton of capspace when he expires after next season. Until then, let's stop rehashing the same tired sham arguments that he is either the devil incarnate or a perennial All Star? Theres been nothing new added to this discussion for most of 2 years, and at this point it makes for pretty boring and predictable reading,and it seemingly ALWAYS turns personal.

Shaddup already!

Let's hire an exorcist.