i think brandans about to get traded.

Chris Cohan · Post #81 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:26 pm

Houston is the team with the expiring contracts and the seeming need to work on a Smith deal to spice it up, and McGrady IS available, but they have a large issue with Landry to settle, first, and I don't agree that Smith actually fits with Adelman and Yao at all. The Hawks would be pretty dumb to just move Smith for Houston's junk and cap room but, then again, this is the Hawks.

Atlanta EXPECTED to shop Smith for their team building this Summer despite reports to the contrary from some who view Smith as some sort of franchise piece. They're also champing at the bit to shop Bibby's contract at the deadline. They're committed to Horford, obviously.

Atlanta, as I understand it, can avoid Smith hitting BYC status IF they renounce Childress. Doubtful, so it will be very difficult to move Smith to a team over the cap if Smith gets what he wants (which is a lot of money) without a third team mitigating the contract hits. Three team deals typically require some delicate attention.

Let's put this as bluntly as possible: this is the F__king Atlanta Hawks we're talking about.

The Suns have Barbosa on the table and are willing to move lots of their smaller contracts to get players. I presume they'd try to offer Raja Bell but I fail to see convincing arguments for the Hawks agreeing to that unless more was coming their way - picks, Robin Lopez, something. Barnes seems awfully duplicative for that team, doesn't he?

The question will be, how much is Smith getting and can it work?

WarFan · Post #82 » by **WarFan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:33 pm

ROWELL wrote:Let's put this as bluntly as possible: this is the F__king Atlanta Hawks we're talking about.

Yeah, you're right. I'm giving them way too much credit. This feels like Clippers-Brand again.

Sid the Squid · Post #83 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:37 pm

Nobody can top Rowell when it comes the quanity of hoops BS he can put out in one single post.

Chris Cohan · Post #84 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:42 pm

Sid has nada.

Sid the Squid · Post #85 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:52 pm

ROWELL wrote:and McGrady IS available, but they have a large issue with Landry to settle, first, ?

that's the line that cracked me up the most..

THE LANDRY ISSUE must be settled first..Forget about Mcgradey and Josh.. :lol:

...

Chris Cohan · Post #86 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:56 pm

Ah, I see. Landry > Josh Smith.
Have a field day with that one.

Sid the Squid · Post #87 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:01 pm

No way the rockets can concern themselves with McGrady..They've got a larger issue to deal with..Carl Landry.

killacalijatt · Post #88 » by **killacalijatt** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:03 pm

Bynum and filler for Smith
If i was Atl Id run away with this
They get the perfect center to pair with Horford

Chris Cohan · Post #89 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:15 pm

Sid is a fool. Nothing but angry, bitter poster attacking. Get out for a walk, old man, and stop trying the selective "I hate Poster A" routine. You already showed your true colors last time we talked Josh Smith. You don't like me or any of the Warriors' new signings. We've heard it.

This looks a lot like attacking another poster instead of talking hoops. Can we reel it in a bit? - CPH

Twinkie defense · Post #90 » by **Twinkie defense** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:17 pm

If we want to speculate...

Atlanta has coveted Biedrins. If Biedrins has a big offer on the table from Europe that GS doesn't want to match, but would have no problem paying Josh Smith, then a transaction sending Wright to Minny, "something" good, young, and cheap from Minny to Atlanta, Smith to GS and Biedrins to Atlanta.

So in essence GS trades Biedrins and Wright for Smith, believing that Smith is better than Biedrins (who is teetering on leaving for nothing), and Wright is not only replaceable with Randolph, but also maybe not the talent they had hoped.

The only way I would do this is if we unable to bring back Biedrins, which I don't believe is the case, but in that scenario it's basically Wright for Smith.

Chris Cohan · Post #91 » by **Chris Cohan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:19 pm

BIedrins and Wright for Smith.

VTB.

WarFan · Post #92 » by **WarFan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:21 pm

Why is Atlanta going to pay Biedrins?

turk3d · Post #93 » by **turk3d** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:26 pm

Because unlike our FO perhaps, they realize how good Biedrens is, and feel that he's worth it being the perfect complement for Horoford (Biedrens + Horoford >> Horoford + Smith).

Twinkie defense · Post #94 » by **Twinkie defense** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:43 pm

What's VTB? Very trade bad?

Atlanta covets Biedrins because they've been needing a top-flight center for a long time, and Biedrins fits their style of play. They're also trading a smaller guy for a bigger guy (who will make less), and get another intriguing player in player in the deal (who ever that is - Foye? Love?). For all we know Wright was the kid Minny wanted all along, and only KG nixing the deal kept Wright from going there.

GS could do it if they feel they're about to overpay for Biedrins or lose him. Most would say (not necessarily here) Smith is worth more than Biedrins, and Smith would look great on the Warriors, running and gunning, blocking shots. He could play the five with Turiaf backing him up, or play play alongside Turiaf at the 4. That's a pretty good young core to develop for the future - Monta/Randolph/Smith. Not to mention they'd be pretty good right away along with Maggette, Jackson, and Harrington.

I'm not proposing this trade mind you, but I would do it rather than lose Biedrins for nothing. And I still think that by far the likeliest scenario is that the Warriors re-sign Biedrins at a shade less that $10 mil per on average. And also that Wright and Harrington stick around.

Sid the Squid · Post #95 » by **Sid the Squid** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:50 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:If we want to speculate...

Atlanta has coveted Biedrins. If Biedrins has a big offer on the table from Europe that GS doesn't want to match, but would have no problem paying Josh Smith, then a transaction sending Wright to Minny, "something" good, young, and cheap from Minny to Atlanta, Smith to GS and Biedrins to Atlanta.

So in essence GS trades Biedrins and Wright for Smith, believing that Smith is better than Biedrins (who is teetering on leaving for nothing), and Wright is not only replaceable with Randolph, but also maybe not the talent they had hoped.

The only way I would do this is if we unable to bring back Biedrins, which I don't believe is the case, but in that scenario it's basically Wright for Smith.

VTB

jpatrick · Post #96 » by **jpatrick** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:02 pm

I haven't done the math, but I think a "double" sign and trade with salaries as big as Smith and Biedrins would command would be almost impossible because of BYC problems. I think you'd have to get a team way under the cap involved to take alot of salary.

Twinkie defense · Post #97 » by **Twinkie defense** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:46 pm

I'll let Shrink talk about the double-sign & trade aspect. But that's what was bandied about with Baron to Miami for Matrix, and I recall that one working in theory.

VTB, ВТБ, BFD.

But like I've been saying since last summer, I don't think Goose is going anywhere.

WarFan · Post #98 » by **WarFan** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:58 pm

Baron & Matrix already make the max so they wouldn't be BYC in a S&T.

shrink · Post #99 » by **shrink** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:26 pm

Did somebody say, "math?"

Because of the BYC for Smith, I did some algebra and calculated the max offer that Josh Smith could get in the following trade was a $10,705,044. As many of you know, when a BYC player is traded, his contract counts as full value to the team receiving him, but only half value to the team sending him away; this makes it far mroe difficult to match salaries under the Collective Bargaining Agreements limitations (125% + $100,00).

Al Harrington 9,226,250
Marco Belinelli 1,446,720
Brandan Wright 2,497,320
-------------------------------------------------
Speedy Claxton 5,757,818
Josh Smith (10,805,044) ($5,402,522) .. 1/2 for byc

GSW IN: Josh Smith + Speedy Claxton
GSW OUT: Al Harrington + Marco Belinelli + Brandan Wright
GSW OUT: 13,170,290 (x1.25 + $100,00 = max allowable under cba ..16,562,863) GSW IN: 16,562,862 works under cba

ATL IN: Al Harrington + Marco Belinelli + Brandan Wright
ATL OUT: Josh Smith + Speedy Claxton
ATL OUT $11,160,340 (x1.25 + $100,000 = max allowable under cba .. $14,050,425) ATL IN: 13,170,290 works under cba

Note .. if MIN is in this deal, the MIN salaries are higher, so the difference has to come out of Josh Smith's new deal For example

Rodney Carney 1,655,760 for Marco Belinelli 1,446,720 = $20,904
Josh Smith 10,805,044 - 20,904 = 10,784,140

The inclusion of another ATL contract is necessary for salary matching to compensate for Josh Smith's BYC. I only chose Speedy because the size of his deal fit -- I don't have any specific knowledge that he is a player either team would accept, or how it changes the value of the deal .. I'm only talking numbers here.

shrink · Post #100 » by **shrink** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:27 pm

BTW, I played with the double S&T option with Biedrins and Josh Smith, and its very very difficult. I'd probably need to know what minimum value players each team has. these are very valuable because they work in the opposite direction of BYC's... they count full value towards the team sending them out, and don't count at all for the team receiving them.