2009 draft lottery...

[TB]

I've watched a ton of Stephen Curry games and most of you are a bit off on assessing him.

The kid does whatever is asked of him on the court, and does it with an extremely high success rate. He has all the attributes of an NBA PG outside of elite athleticism. The main reason he was such a volume shooter in his first two seasons is because he played alongside one of the best PG's in the country. Davidson hasn't had anyone capable of scoring against good teams other than him. I have never seen a player get so much attention from a defense and still succeed.

Even with Richards on the floor, Curry still showed great ball handling, passing, and leadership. He can play D against most nba PG's, and his range will force opposing players to stick to him and stay out of the passing lanes.

With the right team, I see Curry doing just fine as a starting PG in the league. In fact, an ideal situation would be on a team that has a guy like Slim at the 3.

If Ellis isn't the same (fingers crossed this isn't the case), I would love to grab a Harden/derozan type with our first pick, and then make a trade to land Curry as well.

Curry
Harden
Slim
Wright
Biedrins

5 smart players!!! yay!!

[Sleepy51]

Todd Fuller: 4yr NCAA player, 20ppg scoring leader at NC State and Rhodes Scholar majoring in applied mathematics. Drafted ahead of Nash, Kobe, Peja, Ilgauskas and Jermaine O'Neal,

WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with a player's NCAA stats these days. Those numbers are accumulated in such a wildly inconsistent medium that they become almost meaningless from one player to another. You have to be able to see a guy play and know that his GAME can translate. That's all it's about. Can the guy make NBA basketball plays? is the only question draft evaluators should be trying to answer.

[old rem]

Todd Fuller: 4yr NCAA player, 20ppg scoring leader at NC State and Rhodes Scholar majoring in applied mathematics. Drafted ahead of Nash, Kobe, Peja, Ilgauskas and Jermaine O'Neal,

WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with a player's NCAA stats these days. Those numbers are accumulated in such a wildly inconsistent medium that they become almost meaningless from one player to another. You have to be able to see a guy play and know that his GAME can translate. That's all it's about. Can the guy make NBA basketball plays? is the only question draft evaluators should be trying to answer.

Fuller was not even the worst GSW #1 pick. He did have a number of double/double games,which picks such as POB ,Russell Cross never managed. Unlike Joe Smith he was not the #1. Unlike Washburn he was not a guy on the fast track to oblivion. Fuller was no gem but GSW had basically a Jeff Foster with a midrange J but wanted some mythical power banger-3 pt shooter. Ironically they settled for Felton Spencer who in my memory was the most inept starter EVER in a GSW uni.
Fuller, like Tellis Frank, was selected when GSW was real real real desperate for any big man. We had pretty lame coaching then ( oh what a shocker!) and we never had the staff/coaching to add anything to whatever we drafted. To compound that-we didn't invest the minutes to let the player do it on his own. Fuller was never gonna be great, but on our pitiful team,he was at least on the level of the stiffs we decided to play.

There have been times that as a Warrior fan I really felt than the lush on the next barstool could have replaced the GM or coach and we would have done as well.

[old rem]

You want to just ignore the game production of NCAA players...but mere RUMOURS of the Next Big Thing High schooler..that works? Guys hyped as the "next Dirk" from abroad...that's all good?
TB has a good view on Curry. as a Monta size SG..he's got some handicap, but a pure shooter who is consistant and has a solid-smart-all round game can and will find a spot. Likewise I see Hansborough as a tiger who's got the will and tactical skills to find ways to win. A bunch of Me-first kids with raw tools and unreliable skills gets nowhere. Hansborough was a player with a remarkable knack for finding many ways to will his team to a win. He had to do it without having another big guy to help out. He played out of position and still had an All America season.....so...exactly what in that sucks?

[TB]

The difference with Curry and Hansborough from a collegiate dominance standpoint is that Curry is good at things that will transfer to the NBA (shooting, footwork, positioning, passing, off ball defense, ballhandling), whereas Hansborough is good at things that won't.

Hansborough is a great college player, but what he does well is dependent on him being more athletic than his opponent. He is a bulldozer and never stops hustling. Granted, hustling will help in the NBA, but he needs to seriously work on his positional sense, passing ability, and midrange shooting if he wants to hold a job in the NBA.

And Sleepy is right, statistics in college only get you so far. The schemes used in college, both offensive and defensively, vary so much that you can't compare stats.

[Sleepy51]

WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

When you compare him to the FIVE all stars that followed, he is the WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

I don't care about the "rumors" of phenoms. I care about how guys look when I see them play. I care about if they can do NBA things with their bodies. That's it. And that's all the professional talent evaluators that DON'T pass of 5 all stars to take the next hype/hope big stiff Danny Ferry throwback look for the same thing.

Can they make NBA basketball plays. Doesn't matter if the plays are slam dunks or setting picks the right way. It has to be NBA material. Period.

Neither I nor anyone else here inherently prefers Freshmen to Seniors. I don't care if a player racked up their pre-NBA numbers against WAC scrubs or Lithuanian orthodox orphan nuns. I don't care. If the player has NBA "IT" then you pick them. Some players have the IT and a great NCAA resume, fine I'd take a Shane Battier any day of the week. But every NCAA senior isn't Shane Battier. If they don't have the NBA stuff, their numbers DO NOT MATTER. You judge the player on their NBA potential, not on what they "deserve" because they went to class. Being a world class student athlete is it's own reward. The NBA scouting game is about their future, not their past. What WILL they be. That's all it's about.

If you think it's all about the numbers, you would pick Todd Fuller in that draft again, and you would be a (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

[Sleepy51]

Felton Spencer played 12 years in the NBA. Fuller played 5 and his career numbers of 3pts 3rbd are roughly half of Felton's. I don't know what Felton did to your neice, but get over it. He was twice the player Fuller was.

Phenom drafting bias didn't run Fuller out of the league in 5 years. His complete and utter lack of NBA aptitude did.

[Sleepy51]

TB has a good view on Curry. as a Monta size SG..he's got some handicap, but a pure shooter who is consistant and has a solid-smart-all round game can and will find a spot. Likewise I see Hansborough as a tiger who's got the will and tactical skills to find ways to win. A bunch of Me-first kids with raw tools and unreliable skills gets nowhere. Hansborough was a player with a remarkable knack for finding many ways to will his team to a win. He had to do it without having another big guy to help out. He played out of position and still had an All America season.....so...exactly what in that sucks?

I will bet you a one year supply of the weed of your choice that Hansboro doesn't last 12 years in the NBA like Felton did.

[FNQ]

I wouldn't wipe my ass with a player's NCAA stats these days. Those numbers are accumulated in such a wildly inconsistent medium that they become almost meaningless from one player to another. You have to be able to see a guy play and know that his GAME can translate. That's all it's about. Can the guy make NBA basketball plays? is the only question draft evaluators should be trying to answer.

And it's ignored...

That's why guys like Reggie Williams (JDA Dijon Bourgogne - French League) and Charron Fisher (still trying to shake off his assualt charge) are future NBA players... #1 and 2 of the college ranks last year.

Bo McCalleb has averaged 20 ppg in 4 seasons in podunkville USA... what about Arizona Reid? He averaged 22 ppg against Florida last year.. he averaged 24 and 11 for an entire season, where's his parade? Dominating that Big South division is almost as impressive as running the gauntlet in the brutal Southern division...

39% against REAL competition... there's your sharpshooter... 33% from college 3. Quincy Douby II

[Sleepy51]

Wake me when Shelden Williams gets off the bench.

[Sleepy51]

Todd Fuller was definitely the worst pick ever.

Even the Sam Bowie blunder was a better pick. No one KNEW Jordan was going to be the best ever. Everyone but Twardzik knew Fuller was a stiff. Even with all his injuries, Bowie lasted 10 years in the league . He put up 10 & 8 as a rookie. The guy was talented and his game was ready for the NBA, it just didn't work out, but Even missing the greatest player of the modern era, and probably ever pales in comparison to passing of 5 all stars including 2 future HOF'ers for a guy who never belonged in the NBA to begin with, because he was the "kown quanity"

P.S.
Jeff Foster wanted me to tell Old Rem to go f himself

[FNQ]

Todd Fuller was definitely the worst Warrior pick ever.

Players picked after this scrub:

Andre Iguodala
Andris Biedrins (thank God Colangelo wasn't there yet...)
Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Kevin Martin

Marginally better players after this joke of a NBA player:

Robert Swift
JR Smith
Dorrell Wright
Jameer Nelson
Sasha Vujacic

(this is all in rd 1, btw)

[Sleepy51]

Sorry man. Raffy sucks, Fuller sucked. But I don't see five All Stars and 2 HOF'ers on the draft board behind Raffy.

Fuller is the worst NBA draft pick ever, opportunity cost considered. And it was based entirely in Rem's draft philosophy.

[floppymoose]

I was laughing at the Warriors for picking Todd at the time, and back then I could not have told you what city the Warriors played in.

[GSWbandwagon]

some knew jordan was going to be one of the greats. bobby knight knew. he was told portland was going to take bowie, and he said they should take jordan. it was pointed out to him that they had drexler and wanted a center. bobby knight said take jordan and put him at center.

bowie was taken ahead of jordan, barkley, and stockton among others.

on a related note, arguably the worst turned down trade of alltime involved that draft. portland offered houston the #2 and drexler for their choice of the #1 or ralph sampson. the rockets could've had hakeem, drexler, and jordan. although that's entirely a hindsight thing.

i don't know if he was the worst pick ever, but fuller was up there. waaaay up there. total stiff, who most thought was a stiff, taken ahead of a bunch of all stars. we took fuller 11th. i don't think he cracks the top 40 nba careers from players who were eligible for that draft.

if we're going hindsight, then how about jon bender? #5 overall in 1999, behind brand, francis, baron, and odom. guys taken after bender include: wally the clown, rip hamilton, andre miller, shawn marion, jason terry, corey maggette, ron artest, andrei kirilenko, and manu ginobli. several other servicable long term nba players, plus some short termers who had better careers than bender. i think that's 7 or 8 all stars taken after him. bender played a total of 3555 minutes (a little more than baron played just last season) and started a whopping 27 games (4 more than todd fuller).

[floppymoose]

Bender had real talent, though, unlike Fuller. Bender just had his body quit out from under him.

[Sleepy51]

bowie was taken ahead of jordan, barkley, and stockton among others.

Bowie could actually play professioal basketball. There were fanstastic players taken after him, and of course it qualifies as an awful pick, but Bowie did not wash out in 5 years with 3 & 3 career averages.

Bender, was a high upside high school pick who was derailed by injuries. Definitely a do over candidate, but again, he was better qualified for the NBA game than Fuller. Bender lasted 5 actual seasons at 5 & 2, and then was on rosters, but completely injured for two more years that don't really count. He's up there on the awful pick board, maybe even #2, but Fuller is still the WORST. DRAFT PICK. IN. HISTORY.

[old rem]

Bender just had some potential. It never evolved into "real talent"

Washburn was easily the worst GSW pick ever with Russell Cross and Tellis Frank pretty close. None of those 3 even managed to come close to starting a few games and all vanished fast. Cross had been hyped as a 6-10 C and HS All America. By the time we got him he was 6-8,chubby,lethargic,at best might have become a rotation PF if he was ever motivated.

Washburn? LOOKED the part..but as Nellie said, he was not smary enough to remember ANY of the plays....and there's the coke addiction..the charachter issues. Within a few years he'd been cut by a couple of CBA teams.

Wesley Cox was sort of a Pietrus like SF at 6-6 athlete without polish, but he had knee issues as I recall and had athsma which limited him to short bursts of playing time. Very brief NBA career.

Tellis Frank had such a short uneventful career I can't recall much of anything about him. There also was another rd 1 pick the year we drafted Gatling and Vic Alexander..can't recall the name but he was a PF who was never on the season roster if he even showed for preseason camp.

Fuller may have actually started as much as a doxen games,I recall he even had about 14 boards in a game once. However..the big plan was Fuller would be a 3 pt shooter..so there was a tendency to park him on the arc....except he wasn't a 3 shooter. He could shoot from 15-18, not from 3.

[Khoee]

You're going to love Kyle Singler...

[Sleepy51]

Bender just had some potential. It never evolved into "real talent"

Washburn was easily the worst GSW pick ever with Russell Cross and Tellis Frank pretty close. None of those 3 even managed to come close to starting a few games and all vanished fast. Cross had been hyped as a 6-10 C and HS All America. By the time we got him he was 6-8,chubby,lethargic,at best might have become a rotation PF if he was ever motivated.

Washburn? LOOKED the part..but as Nellie said, he was not smary enough to remember ANY of the plays....and there's the coke addiction..the charachter issues. Within a few years he'd been cut by a couple of CBA teams.

Wesley Cox was sort of a Pietrus like SF at 6-6 athlete without polish, but he had knee issues as I recall and had athsma which limited him to short bursts of playing time. Very brief NBA career.

Tellis Frank had such a short uneventful career I can't recall much of anything about him. There also was another rd 1 pick the year we drafted Gatling and Vic Alexander..can't recall the name but he was a PF who was never on the season roster if he even showed for preseason camp.

Fuller may have actually started as much as a doxen games,I recall he even had about 14 boards in a game once. However..the big plan was Fuller would be a 3 pt shooter..so there was a tendency to park him on the arc....except he wasn't a 3 shooter. He could shoot from 15-18, not from 3.

First of all, damn you to hell for making me look back at the 86 draft board. The entire league was on cocaine that year. Even in that draft, our pick wasn't as catastrophic as Len Bias. Hornacek, Mark Price, Ron Harper & Rodman were the best of the crop that we could have taken instead of Washcrack. All tremendous players, making the pick a complete and utter traveshamockery. Yet, it still pales in comparison to passing on two franchise changing HOF'ers in Kobe & Nash, or two premier 7 footers in Z and JO . . . plus Peja.

Russell Cross? Again, a putrid pick, well worthy of complete and utter scorn. Missed on Clyde Drexler, Dale Ellis, Antoine Carr, Thurl Bailey. Definitely a botched pick. Missing Drexler is comparable to blowing it on Kobe, but not quite. No one has ever called Drexler the greatest individual player on the planet. Hmm . . . greatest individual player on the planet over here, great white hope stiff over here . . . sorry, that sucks worse.

Tellis Frank? Taken 14th with only Jose Ortiz, Dallas Comegys and Brad Lohaus still on the board as bigs. Tellis Frank was a value at that draft position. No JO or Big Z on the board behind him. Plus, in his one complete Warrior season, Frank averaged 8 & 3 dwarfing Fuller's numbers. Try again.

I have no idea who that Cox dude is, but the draft board history says he was the 18th of 22 1st round picks and only one other legitimate career NBA player came from that draft after he was picked. In 1977, 99.99% of the global population sucked ass at basketball. The 10th pick wasa bottom of the barrel back then. (Damn you're old.)

I'm sorry Rem, but the Fuller pick was the worst calamity of a draft failure in history. To have not seen any of those 5 All Stars comming, and to go with the big stiffy instead because he was a rhodes scholar with outstanding NCAA numbers was the bar setting event for draft stupidity in the pre age limit era. No other pick stands in such stark contrast no just to what "could" have been, but what SHOULD have been. Fuller was not an NBA basketball talent. Washburn wasn't a good human being, not the same issue at all. Fuller was a pick who never should have been taken in the 1st round on his basketball merrit. He was the Clarence Thomas of big white dudes. You're lucky any other white dude ever got in the league again after that.