Bears @ Eagles Game thread

[RedBulls23]

I don't remember many people talking about a 4-5 year rebuild. That's revisionist

Fact is Pace and Fox are a combined 12 wins on their bears tenure.

Fox will be gone for sure, but it looks like Pace is here to stay for the foreseeable future. He has to have an A+ off season with the arrow pointing up next season. If we're being honest, the excuses are wearing thin.

I remember many people saying it would take at least 3.

How far along should we be by now? Most of the progress is about QB and the Bears just drafted their potential QB. I hate these unwatchable games too, but I look back and don't see how we're supposed to be in a better spot by now.

How far along should we be? I would say it should look like the arrow is pointing up, but they will probably end up winning about 5 or fewer games again this season. You don't need a great QB to put together a competent team, so that's also false.

Pace needs to do better.

[Red Larrivee]

How far along should we be? I would say it should look like the arrow is pointing up, but they will probably end up winning about 5 or fewer games again this season. You don't need a great QB to put together a competent team, so that's also false.

Pace needs to do better.

I agree with you that Pace needs to do better, but he hasn't been bad. The arrow is pointing up slightly to me and that's mostly because of the defensive talent we have.

I would blame Pace if we were still in the same vicinity of where we started. The record may not show it, but the talent is day and night.

[fleet]

Good management turns teams around in 2 years in the NFL often. That is extremely possible. Here we have excuses after 3 years of regression. I get it. Everyone was optimistic over the handsome young newcomer. The eternal optimists may need 5 years to shake it off. Heck people defended Emery for 2 years because of hope. Hope and I have never been friends.

[Susan]

Good management turns teams around in 2 years in the NFL often. That is extremely possible. Here we have excuses after 3 years for regression

Give me an example of this happening.

[fleet]

Good management turns teams around in 2 years in the NFL often. That is extremely possible. Here we have excuses after 3 years for regression

Give me an example of this happening.

Happens ALL the time. Are you denying it? These very Eagles were 7-9 two years n a row before this year. They were 4-12 in 2012 b4 they went 10-6. Go check the archives all over the NFL. Its loaded with examples. I'm not going to prove anybody's negatives for them.

[fleet]

Pace is major part of the problem if not the bigger problem. Fox won a Superbowl when he had horses. No depth whatsoever. A mediocre tomorrow is best case scenario. No Superbowls in these people's futures. Very limited in the FO.

I struggle blaming Pace for the bulk of our issues. When Pace took over, the Bears really had nothing. The defense and offense were both in decline, and his QB was expensive and enigmatic. Our best individual asset was Alshon Jeffery. We were missing on draft picks and not getting a lot out of free agency either. Some of that has changed.

Draft picks: Cody Whitehair, Adrian Amos, Eddie Jackson, Leonard Floyd, Jordan Howard, Tarik Cohen, Eddie Goldman.

FA signings: Akiem Hicks, Pernell McPhee, Danny Trevethan have all provided value.

There's definitely some things to be encouraged about going forward. But, Pace is still knee deep in trying to replinish this roster. This offseason, that starts with the secondary (CB's) and WR's. He also needs to find a coaching staff that can maximize Trubisky's strengths.

We always knew this was a 3-4 year process. Hell, it may be 5. We're still on that timeline and are a much more talented team than we were.

You're giving me names of guys. Any fan of any team can do That. We can probably list some Cleveland Browns. Records matter.

[fleet]

Didn't Pace and/or Fox say last year they did not want or expect to be back at the top of the draft again? Fail.

[Red Larrivee]

You're giving me names of guys. Any fan of any team can do That. We can probably list some Cleveland Browns. Records matter.

I'm not saying records don't matter, but it doesn't tell us the amount of talent that we've added from a team that was bare before Pace got here. Our personnel decisions are much, much better.

[Red Larrivee]

Happens ALL the time. Are you denying it? These very Eagles were 7-9 two years n a row before this year. They were 4-12 in 2012 b4 they went 10-6. Go check the archives all over the NFL. Its loaded with examples. I'm not going to prove anybody's negatives for them.

The Eagles were nowhere near as bad as the Bears before drafting Wentz. They went 10-6 and 7-9. Those are hardly extensive rebuilding projects.

The Bears went 5-11, 6-10 in the two seasons before Pace got here, and then went 3-13.

[fleet]

Happens ALL the time. Are you denying it? These very Eagles were 7-9 two years n a row before this year. They were 4-12 in 2012 b4 they went 10-6. Go check the archives all over the NFL. Its loaded with examples. I'm not going to prove anybody's negatives for them.

The Eagles were nowhere near as bad as the Bears before drafting Wentz. They went 10-6 and 7-9. Those are hardly extensive rebuilding projects.

The Bears went 5-11, 6-10 in the two seasons before Pace got here, and then went 3-13.

Eagles went out and landed Wentz via trade. Good on them. Its not even about the Eagles anyway. 2 year turnarounds are common in the NFL. That is the point. Here we have a 3 year regression. Unless a given fan's individual talent projection is paramount for you. For me that is a little bit like congressional federal budget deficit forcasts based on their economic optimism based on their tax plan. Iffy at best. Suspect.

Again, most if not every team has a list of players aquired over the last 3 seasons. Can you build a winner with some depth on the roster? Records are the truth serum for overrating or underrating acquisitions.

[Susan]

Happens ALL the time. Are you denying it? These very Eagles were 7-9 two years n a row before this year. They were 4-12 in 2012 b4 they went 10-6. Go check the archives all over the NFL. Its loaded with examples. I'm not going to prove anybody's negatives for them.

The Eagles were nowhere near as bad as the Bears before drafting Wentz. They went 10-6 and 7-9. Those are hardly extensive rebuilding projects.

The Bears went 5-11, 6-10 in the two seasons before Pace got here, and then went 3-13.

Eagles went out and landed Wentz via trade. Good on them. Its not even about the Eagles anyway. 2 year turnarounds are common in the NFL. That is the point. Here we have a 3 year regression. Unless a given fan's individual talent projection is paramount for you. For me that is a little bit like congressional federal budget deficit forcasts based on their economic optimism based on their tax plan. Iffy at best. Suspect.

Again, most if not every team has a list of players aquired over the last 3 seasons. Can you build a winner with some depth on the roster? Records are the truth serum for overrating or underrating acquisitions.

Was a 2 year turn around possible with the team that Pace walked into?

I'm not happy about Alshon leaving, but besides him, where were the building blocks?

[Red Larrivee]

Eagles went out and landed Wentz via trade. Good on them. Its not even about the Eagles anyway. 2 year turnarounds are common in the NFL. That is the point. Here we have a 3 year regression. Unless a given fan's individual talent projection is paramount for you. For me that is a little bit like congressional federal budget deficit forcasts based on their economic optimism based on their tax plan. Iffy at best. Suspect.

Again, most if not every team has a list of players aquired over the last 3 seasons. Can you build a winner with some depth on the roster? Records are the truth serum for overrating or underrating acquisitions.

A two-year turnaround is only possible if you have a solid base, that maybe underachieved for a season.

The Eagles two years ago before Wentz had: Zach Ertz, Nelson Agholor, Mychal Kendricks, Fletcher Cox, Jordan Hicks, Brandon Graham, Malcolm Jenkins, Jason Peters, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce

Chicago two years ago had: Alshon Jeffery, Kyle Long

So, I don't see how a two-year turnaround was even remotely feasible. The Eagles had a team with foundation pieces on both sides of the ball.

[Bulls69]

I don't remember many people talking about a 4-5 year rebuild. That's revisionist

Fact is Pace and Fox are a combined 12 wins on their bears tenure.

Fox will be gone for sure, but it looks like Pace is here to stay for the foreseeable future. He has to have an A+ off season with the arrow pointing up next season. If we're being honest, the excuses are wearing thin.

I remember many people saying it would take at least 3.

How far along should we be by now? Most of the progress is about QB and the Bears just drafted their potential QB. I hate these unwatchable games too, but I look back and don't see how we're supposed to be in a better spot by now. I guess if the Kevin White pick actually worked, the offense would be further along, but we'd still be pretty bad.

I'm all for the 3-4 years rebuilding plan but I just don't see it Pace has done a decent job at drafting to be honest at the time I like the fact that the Bears brought in Fox to stabilize the franchise since Trestman was a complete failure. I'm so ready to see Fox go lets keep Vic as our DC and bring in a offensive minded head coach for pete sake get Mitch some weapons. I live in LA and watch a lot of Rams games Sean McVeigh since taking over he is making Goeff looking like good QB this time last season Goeff look like he in way over his head. The Rams is surrounding Goeff with some decent weapons Woods and Watkins today they beat a hot New Orleans team.

[Bulls69]

The Eagles were nowhere near as bad as the Bears before drafting Wentz. They went 10-6 and 7-9. Those are hardly extensive rebuilding projects.

The Bears went 5-11, 6-10 in the two seasons before Pace got here, and then went 3-13.

Eagles went out and landed Wentz via trade. Good on them. Its not even about the Eagles anyway. 2 year turnarounds are common in the NFL. That is the point. Here we have a 3 year regression. Unless a given fan's individual talent projection is paramount for you. For me that is a little bit like congressional federal budget deficit forcasts based on their economic optimism based on their tax plan. Iffy at best. Suspect.

Again, most if not every team has a list of players aquired over the last 3 seasons. Can you build a winner with some depth on the roster? Records are the truth serum for overrating or underrating acquisitions.

Was a 2 year turn around possible with the team that Pace walked into?

I'm not happy about Alshon leaving, but besides him, where were the building blocks?

Maybe it's just me I was not upset when Alshon left via Free agent we already have Kevin White who can't stay healthy we don't need Alshon to pull his mid season I'm hurt routine so good riddence.

[Bulls69]

I want to see another 50+ yard FG attempt instead of going for it on 4th and short. Don't care about whichever trash kicker we have in there. Just gimme the wide-right-by-a-mile field goal kick.

The Bears are still playing conservative hello Fox the Bears are not going to the playoffs have fun and open up the play books if you have one.

[chitownsports4ever]

As I've been saying all year long I cant believe people think Fox is the biggest problem with this team when Pace and Fox are really holding hands in this debacle and without seeing some improvement they both should be shown the door .

[Susan]

As I've been saying all year long I cant believe people think Fox is the biggest problem with this team when Pace and Fox are really holding hands in this debacle and without seeing some improvement they both should be shown the door .

There's a foundation here though. It's clearly being put in place:

Howard
Whitehair
Trubisky
Cohen
Jackson
Amos
Floyd
Hicks
Long
Shaheen
Trevathan
Meredith

I don't think Fox has done a poor job but I don't think he should stay. This has been a franchise low on talent coupled with a freaking ton of injuries. It's hard enough to win in this league but to lose the major players we've lost over the past few years due to injury pretty much seals your fate.

Trestman was significantly worse for the franchise than Fox.

[Axxo]

I don't remember many people talking about a 4-5 year rebuild. That's revisionist

Fact is Pace and Fox are a combined 12 wins on their bears tenure.

Fox will be gone for sure, but it looks like Pace is here to stay for the foreseeable future. He has to have an A+ off season with the arrow pointing up next season. If we're being honest, the excuses are wearing thin.

I remember many people saying it would take at least 3.

How far along should we be by now? Most of the progress is about QB and the Bears just drafted their potential QB. I hate these unwatchable games too, but I look back and don't see how we're supposed to be in a better spot by now. I guess if the Kevin White pick actually worked, the offense would be further along, but we'd still be pretty bad.

I'm all for the 3-4 years rebuilding plan but I just don't see it Pace has done a decent job at drafting to be honest at the time I like the fact that the Bears brought in Fox to stabilize the franchise since Trestman was a complete failure. I'm so ready to see Fox go lets keep Vic as our DC and bring in a offensive minded head coach for pete sake get Mitch some weapons. I live in LA and watch a lot of Rams games Sean McVeigh since taking over he is making Goeff looking like good QB this time last season Goeff look like he in way over his head. The Rams is surrounding Goeff with some decent weapons Woods and Watkins today they beat a hot New Orleans team.

Dilly dilly! 4 years in and we still look like year 1 of the rebuild. Like Stephen A Smith says about the Cavs..."No excuses"

[chitownsports4ever]

There's a foundation here though. It's clearly being put in place:

Howard
Whitehair
Trubisky
Cohen
Jackson
Amos
Floyd
Hicks
Long
Shaheen
Trevathan
Meredith

I don't think Fox has done a poor job but I don't think he should stay. This has been a franchise low on talent coupled with a freaking ton of injuries. It's hard enough to win in this league but to lose the major players we've lost over the past few years due to injury pretty much seals your fate.

Trestman was significantly worse for the franchise than Fox.

The only foundational pieces there are Howard and Hicks the jury is still out on everyone else and the only reason some of them are on the lists are not that they are hard to replace but only that either we have no one else better or that they are always being given injury passes.

Trevathan will have played in only 16 games out of 32 possible for the Bears since arriving thats not a foundational piece
Kyle long is damaged goods
Floyd is decent but the impact has come nowhere close to matching the draft position

In 3 years with 3 drafts and major cap space that list simply is not good enough because it looks to me as if you have one pro bowler on offense and a bunch of guys and one pro bowler on defense and a bunch of guys and all these guys may or may not give you league average play.

career starter
pro bowlers
all pros

when you start looking at our talent thought that lense you realize we are short on talent for us to be 3 years in

[Axxo]

There's a foundation here though. It's clearly being put in place:

Howard
Whitehair
Trubisky
Cohen
Jackson
Amos
Floyd
Hicks
Long
Shaheen
Trevathan
Meredith

I don't think Fox has done a poor job but I don't think he should stay. This has been a franchise low on talent coupled with a freaking ton of injuries. It's hard enough to win in this league but to lose the major players we've lost over the past few years due to injury pretty much seals your fate.

Trestman was significantly worse for the franchise than Fox.

The only foundational pieces there are Howard and Hicks the jury is still out on everyone else and the only reason some of them are on the lists are not that they are hard to replace but only that either we have no one else better or that they are always being given injury passes.

Trevathan will have played in only 16 games out of 32 possible for the Bears since arriving thats not a foundational piece
Kyle long is damaged goods
Floyd is decent but the impact has come nowhere close to matching the draft position

In 3 years with 3 drafts and major cap space that list simply is not good enough because it looks to me as if you have one pro bowler on offense and a bunch of guys and one pro bowler on defense and a bunch of guys and all these guys may or may not give you league average play.

career starter
pro bowlers
all pros

when you start looking at our talent thought that lense you realize we are short on talent for us to be 3 years in

Chitown is right. I mean first off Cam and Shaheen havent done jack yet. In no way have they shown to be building pieces. Pace's strength is drafting relative to acquiring free agents which he has downright sucked at which sets a low bar.

The caveat with Pace is whether or not George M has been interferring. If so I think Pace should be given a chance to pick his own coach/staff. Also if he wanted a specfic free agent and George stepped in so Pace had to settle for someone else then that needs to change also. Pace said he wanted Bears to be great and thats why he made the decisions he did to date. Bears are no where close to being great. So the inverse is if Pace was the sole decision maker on the HC and player acquisition then he needs to go with Fox and Loggains.