Cutler trade to CHI for Orton, two 1st's, 3rd

Post #1 » by **MHZ** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:17 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373

vincecarter4pres · Post #2 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:34 pm

This is a pretty damn good deal for Denver.

Orton showed his ass last year as a true up and coming QB when he was healthy and 3 draft picks including 2 1st rounders?

That is a seriously good package.

Denver wins.

DrSithMirth · Post #3 » by **DrSithMirth** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:38 pm

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=894787

Denver wins if they draft well. Quite frankly, I don't trust mcdaniels' judgement.

In terms of Orton, he's not a qb you stick with in the long term. The qb carousel is a symptom of mediocrity, and if the Broncos can't have a player that's not just good for the system but can stand on his own as a qb, then this is a failure on mcdaniels' part.

I like the picks acquired. It gives us a lot of options. But this whole thing was poorly handled from jump street and I still want mcdaniels fired.

Shady08 · Post #4 » by **Shady08** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:44 pm

I'm not sure why you had to close the thread in the Nuggets section, it said OT.

This place is more of a ghost town than the Nuggets forum........

Post #5 » by **MHZ** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:46 pm

For sure, but the only way to change that is by having important Broncos developments on the Broncos board, brother.

daddyfivestar · Post #6 » by **daddyfivestar** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 10:59 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:This is a pretty damn good deal for Denver.

Orton showed his ass last year as a true up and coming QB when he was healthy and 3 draft picks including 2 1st rounders?

That is a seriously good package.

Denver wins.

Reina just gave Denver a D+ on the deal and Chicago an A. While I like Reina, he discounts Denver for taking on Orton, yet praises Chicago for being one week away from the playoffs last year as overachievers - - - did he forget who led the team on that near playoff march.

Denver has way, way better receivers and line than Chicago so Orton can hold it down for a year or two while a young QB (Stafford or Sanchez at #12 or Josh Freeman at #18) is groomed. The other 1st will certainly be LB or DL, and add to that two firsts next year and Denver is right back where they need to be.

They should get credit for swiping two 1sts in this deal the way is was playing out in the media. I didn't think anyone would cave in with 2 1sts and a QB and, a 3rd to boot. I'd give them a B right now that, and an A if the draft picks work out.

zilby · Post #7 » by **zilby** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 11:00 pm

MHizzle wrote:For sure, but the only way to change that is by having important Broncos developments on the Broncos board, brother.

plzz dont lock mine, considering i posted it first.

nitetrain8603 · Post #8 » by **nitetrain8603** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 11:11 pm

It was a good get for the Broncos, but as someone who's not a Bears fan but lives in Chicago, I could tell you that Orton isn't a longterm solution. He tends to stare down his receivers wayyyyyyyyy too much which leads to a ton of batted balls and interceptions. Honestly, in Denver's offense, I think he may look better if he gets to throw more deep balls because guys like Marshall and Royal could go catch the ball.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 11:11 pm

I don't see why Orton can't become the long term fix at QB.

He's only 26(turning 27 about 10 weeks into the season)and got his basically his 2nd shot last year and was way beyond solid. He severely injured his ankle and came back a little too early and had crap for recievers, with his rookie RB being his lead recievers in many instances.

I am predicting a big year from Orton this year. 24-32 TD's and 3500+ yards and if your defense plays well and you have at least an average running game I see 10 wins.

Shady08 · Post #10 » by **Shady08** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 11:22 pm

It's pretty clear that Orton is not the long-term solution, this is why draft picks were included in the deal.

In 33 career starts, he has thrown 30 TDs and 27 INTs, mind you those are mostly from two full season starts 2008 and 2005. You expect him to throw 24-32 TDs? That's a little optimistic....

Cutler only throw for 25 last season....

daddyfivestar · Post #11 » by **daddyfivestar** » Thu Apr 2, 2009 11:36 pm

I think I like the 3-way deal better - alas too late now.

Denver gets QB Brady Quinn, #5 pick in this draft, and LB Ernie Sims for Cutler and #12.
In other words, a QB who should be as good as Cutler eventually, a very solid LB, and with #5 a pass rusher like Orakpo.

Now, they are looking at QB and either DL or LB with the 2 picks, Orton taking snaps for a year or two depending, and next year's Chicago picks (probably around #22ish and #85ish).

It's a toss up. For me, Denver could compete immediately in the 8-8 West with Quinn and the two Defenders, but I think it's definitely no playoffs for two seasons now, so I'd have taken the Cleveland/Detroit deal rumor.

Post #12 » by **MHZ** » Fri Apr 3, 2009 12:04 am

zilby wrote:
MHizzle wrote:For sure, but the only way to change that is by having important Broncos developments on the Broncos board, brother.

plzz dont lock mine, considering i posted it first.

Sorry about that, looks like you beat me to the punch by a minute, but because this one was on top, people posted here. I didn't catch it until now.

It was a good get for the Broncos, but as someone who's not a Bears fan but lives in Chicago, I could tell you that Orton isn't a longterm solution. He tends to stare down his receivers wayyyyyyyyy too much which leads to a ton of batted balls and interceptions. Honestly, in Denver's offense, I think he may look better if he gets to throw more deep balls because guys like Marshall and Royal could go catch the ball.

Actually, Cutler has a similar problem. He'd get far too focused on one WR, and throw to him almost every passing down, regardless of coverage (often Brandon Marshall).

aboyle18 · Post #13 » by **aboyle18** » Fri Apr 3, 2009 1:07 am

getting rid of cutle was dumb as **** hes top 5 caliber QB

DrSithMirth · Post #14 » by **DrSithMirth** » Fri Apr 3, 2009 2:15 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I don't see why Orton can't become the long term fix at QB.

He's only 26(turning 27 about 10 weeks into the season)and got his basically his 2nd shot last year and was way beyond solid. He severely injured his ankle and came back a little too early and had crap for recievers, with his rookie RB being his lead recievers in many instances.

I am predicting a big year from Orton this year. 24-32 TD's and 3500+ yards and if your defense plays well and you have at least an average running game I see 10 wins.

He's only 26, he's a good guy, but he's a stopgap plain and simple. Mcdaniels has done a great job of ushering us into the great age of quarterback mediocrity.

The only way to recover from this is to get a first round qb now and groom him to take over in a season or two. Meanwhile our team is going to stink for a while. Thanks Josh, now go away!

(btw, I think your boy Frank has pictures of Thorn doing something untoward. He just got endorsed again by the Nets management. lol, damn.)

vincecarter4pres · Post #15 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Apr 3, 2009 4:22 pm

Yeah, I think I threw up in my mouth a little when I read the wiretap on Frank.

Here's the thing. Orton, I am not saying he is superstar material, but at the same time he looked pretty good last year. He threw 18 TD's to 12 picks in basically 13 games, to a mediocre recieving core, in a really conservative offense. He was on fire for a while until he severely sprained his ankle and then came back too early because the guy is a trooper. I had him on my fantasy squad and watched him a lot on TV. He isn't Cutler, but at the same time, Cutler is more potential then achievement as well. Orton rushed for 3 TD's. I saw one game where he threw for 2 TD's and would have had 4 if his recievers didn't have bannana hands and this happened in a number of games.
I don't know if Orton is a franchise QB, but I also don't know that he isn't.
I have a feeling all these "experts" are going to be humbled this season when Orton leads Denver to the playoffs with about 10 or 11 wins and Cutler doesn't do much better for Chicago then what Orton was able to last season.

zilby · Post #16 » by **zilby** » Fri Apr 3, 2009 10:42 pm

MHizzle wrote:
zilby wrote:
MHizzle wrote:For sure, but the only way to change that is by having important Broncos developments on the Broncos board, brother.

plzz dont lock mine, considering i posted it first.

Sorry about that, looks like you beat me to the punch by a minute, but because this one was on top, people posted here. I didn't catch it until now.

woot, so u'll keep mine up, thanks. i think chicago wins for now, but if they draft really well, it changes.

Dark Star · Post #17 » by **Dark Star** » Mon Apr 6, 2009 1:09 am

Worst day in the history of the Broncos. McCheater is a worthless POS and should be fired. He never should have had the job in the first place. I have been a Bronco fan my whole life and was always proud to say so...not anymore. Not until McCheater and Bowlen are gone. We had Elway Jr and let him go. As Elway said, it's a very sad day for the Denver Broncos and all of their fans.

What a shame.

Post #18 » by **MHZ** » Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:57 am

I'd say he had a little to prove before we christen him Elway, Jr.

It's pretty crappy to lose a pro bowl QB who seemingly had nowhere to go but up, but this could turn out pretty decently depending on how the draft picks are used.

DrSithMirth · Post #19 » by **DrSithMirth** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:26 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Yeah, I think I threw up in my mouth a little when I read the wiretap on Frank.

Here's the thing. Orton, I am not saying he is superstar material, but at the same time he looked pretty good last year. He threw 18 TD's to 12 picks in basically 13 games, to a mediocre recieving core, in a really conservative offense. He was on fire for a while until he severely sprained his ankle and then came back too early because the guy is a trooper. I had him on my fantasy squad and watched him a lot on TV. He isn't Cutler, but at the same time, Cutler is more potential then achievement as well. Orton rushed for 3 TD's. I saw one game where he threw for 2 TD's and would have had 4 if his recievers didn't have bannana hands and this happened in a number of games.
I don't know if Orton is a franchise QB, but I also don't know that he isn't.
I have a feeling all these "experts" are going to be humbled this season when Orton leads Denver to the playoffs with about 10 or 11 wins and Cutler doesn't do much better for Chicago then what Orton was able to last season.

According to Peter King, it looks like we're going to find out if Orton can be the man, come hell or high water.

2. I think the Broncos may trade up in the first round, but not for what you think. Not for a quarterback. Maybe for Tyson Jackson, the LSU defensive end who's the best-available 3-4 defensive end in the draft, or Texas pass-rusher Brian Orakpo. I'm not saying it's impossible they'll draft a quarterback, but believe me when I tell you Josh McDaniels likes Kyle Orton a lot.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... mqb/3.html

We'll have to see. I've been excited (positive and negative) for a draft before, but not like this in recent memory.