Packers News, Transactions, Trades

[ReasonablySober]

Yes, the toxic Jordan Love discourse through the first half of last season was pretty insufferable. People never learn their lesson with young players though. Sure, sometimes you're "right" when you prematurely crush a guy and it turns out he never gets better, but oh boy, if he turns out good (see also: Rashan Gary), you better be ready to eat that **** crow because the receipts are all here somewhere...

Probably should chill with this. You spent the first half of the season calling him bad and said it wasn't too early to question whether or not he was the answer. The receipts are all here.

You think that was an unreasonable analysis at the time? I called him good when he played good and I criticized him when he played bad in that 4-5 week stretch. Meanwhile, there were people here outright taking their premature victory laps cuz they were so desperate to clown on Gute and the organization. Pretty sure I never “gave up” on him like so many Packer fans did after Week 7.

I was doing the same thing. I was also on high pick alert and had the Packers gotten one I don't think it's unreasonable to think the Packers would have taken someone like Daniels or Williams. 4th year QBs who lead their teams to four wins or less don't typically get the benefit of a 5th year.

[RiotPunch]

Bunch of frontrunner posters around here.

- Packer fan Bobby Portis

[coolhandluke121]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

[nagawicka]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

[coolhandluke121]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

[Turk Nowitzki]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Letting him play out his contract? I just don't think they can go down that road without there being some bad blood in the process. If they think he's the guy you just have to bite the bullet, just how the game works now. Anyone who is even remotely an above average QB is going to get paid and I think we've seen enough to know he's an above average QB. It's more a matter of how far above average can he be.

[Kerb Hohl]

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Letting him play out his contract? I just don't think they can go down that road without there being some bad blood in the process. If they think he's the guy you just bite the bullet now, just how the game works now. Anyone who is even remotely an above average QB is going to get paid and I think we've seen enough to know he's an above average QB. It's more a matter of how far above average can he be.

The truth of (almost) all massive NFL QB contracts and acquisitions is, unless you are purely, "we should be tanking non-stop until we get Mahomes or can build a 49ers-like supporting cast," which is pretty unrealistic...they are almost all worth the risk.

It's fine to laugh at or predict it'll go poorly, but the Russell Wilson deal for example. It was an insanely large cap hit to eat and it was an insanely large trade package, no doubt. But the situation they had anyways without trading for Wilson, even with the benefit of hindsight, probably wasn't going to do much in Mahomes' division.

So shoot your shot. Try it out for 1-2 years. If it doesn't work, the alternative probably wasn't anyways. Then eat the dead cap while you tank for 1-2 years.

If Love turns out to be mediocre, that sucks...but it's worth the risk. If he actually sucks, we will probably still have a pretty good roster and be trying something new in 2027, I guess.

[coolhandluke121]

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Letting him play out his contract? I just don't think they can go down that road without there being some bad blood in the process. If they think he's the guy you just have to bite the bullet, just how the game works now. Anyone who is even remotely an above average QB is going to get paid and I think we've seen enough to know he's an above average QB. It's more a matter of how far above average can he be.

I'm not suggesting an alternative or even suggesting that they shouldn't do it. I'm just pointing out that it's too soon to completely dismiss anyone who was a Love skeptic, mainly because the sample size of him doing really well isn't that much bigger than the sample size of him looking awful, but also because there's just as much context to the way his supporting cast performed (or didn't) when he was playing so poorly as there was when he was playing well.

Just as an example, he was terrible when the OL was playing very poorly and great when the OL started playing really well - so what will we see if and when he has average OL play? And a disproportionate share of his best weapons had crucial injuries at the same time when he was playing poorly, whereas almost all of them were healthy at the same time when he was playing well - what will we see if and when the injury bug splits the difference, or when it proves too difficult to pay all of his young weapons the money they deserve in a few years?

I'm not against giving him a big contract; I just think it's too soon to declare him an established top-tier QB. Daniel Jones had a similar season two years ago, and it amounted to nothing. I think Love obviously has more talent than that, but I'm not convinced that he's going to consistently be a top-5ish QB. I lean towards thinking that a lot of QB's could have played nearly that well with the scheme and the weapons he had when they were (mostly - Watson excluded) healthy.

[jimmybones]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No one was anointing Love too soon. TBF.

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

I think I'd agree with you more if his season trajectory was the opposite. If he started hot and then got figured out by defenses I'd be more pessimistic. But the fact that his bad stretch was during his first run as a starter and paired with the youngest receiving core in recorded history gives way more confidence that the good stretch was him figuring things out and evolving before our eyes.

You're right, nothing is guaranteed and he needs to play like that consistently for a longer stretch to entrench himself as elite but I think the reasons for the optimism are pretty damn legit.

[drdrG]

No, I'm saying they might be doing it now. There's just an irony in taking it for granted that he deserves a massive extension based on such a short track record when we just learned this lesson about writing him off too soon based on a really short track record.

What do you suggest as an alternative? Letting him play out his contract? I just don't think they can go down that road without there being some bad blood in the process. If they think he's the guy you just have to bite the bullet, just how the game works now. Anyone who is even remotely an above average QB is going to get paid and I think we've seen enough to know he's an above average QB. It's more a matter of how far above average can he be.

I'm not suggesting an alternative or even suggesting that they shouldn't do it. I'm just pointing out that it's too soon to completely dismiss anyone who was a Love skeptic, mainly because the sample size of him doing really well isn't that much bigger than the sample size of him looking awful, but also because there's just as much context to the way his supporting cast performed (or didn't) when he was playing so poorly as there was when he was playing well.

Just as an example, he was terrible when the OL was playing very poorly and great when the OL started playing really well - so what will we see if and when he has average OL play? And a disproportionate share of his best weapons had crucial injuries at the same time when he was playing poorly, whereas almost all of them were healthy at the same time when he was playing well - what will we see if and when the injury bug splits the difference, or when it proves too difficult to pay all of his young weapons the money they deserve in a few years?

I'm not against giving him a big contract; I just think it's too soon to declare him an established top-tier QB. Daniel Jones had a similar season two years ago, and it amounted to nothing. I think Love obviously has more talent than that, but I'm not convinced that he's going to consistently be a top-5ish QB. I lean towards thinking that a lot of QB's could have played nearly that well with the scheme and the weapons he had when they were (mostly - Watson excluded) healthy.

Daniel Jones had 15 TD's in 16 G in his best season ever as a fourth year starter. Daniel Jones was never considered a top-tier QB by anyone but the Giants. The list of QBs who have been similarly as prolific as Love was over the second half of last season is quite small.

Many people have Love as a top 12 QB today. Given he's 25, signing him to a big deal now is a no-brainer. If he performs at the level of Kirk Cousins or Jared Goff over most of a potential 50M+ extension, it will still be a good value with the salary cap going up.

[coolhandluke121]

Daniel Jones had 15 TD's in 16 G in his best season ever as a fourth year starter. Daniel Jones was never considered a top-tier QB by anyone but the Giants. The list of QBs who have been similarly as prolific as Love was over the second half of last season is quite small.

Many people have Love as a top 12 QB today. Given he's 25, signing him to a big deal now is a no-brainer. If he performs at the level of Kirk Cousins or Jared Goff over most of a potential 50M+ extension, it will still be a good value with the salary cap going up.

I clearly said that Love is a lot more talented than Jones, and obviously he will get paid more as well. What they have in common is that their huge paydays will be based on less than a full season of performing well, and the same logic about the Packers having to pay Love (cost of doing business, have to pay your QB and hope it works out) was used to justify Jones's payday as well. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting it will work out the same, but if we're going to dunk on people for doubting Love too soon, it's fair to point out that some people might be declaring him the QB of the future too soon as well. We're still squarely in the formative assessment phase of his career, that's all I'm saying.

[Ayt]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No QB is made to look better by a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players.

[coolhandluke121]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No QB is made to look better by a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players.

This is an extreme overgeneralization. Their entire set of position players was categorically very good when everyone was healthy last year. Love was good too, but he did not have to carry the offense. Not even close.

[M-C-G]

It's fair to call out anyone who wrote Love off too soon if you said they were doing so at the time, but let's not lose sight of the possibility that many people are anointing him too soon as well. 2/3 of a Pro Bowl-caliber season is far from conclusive. I personally think that history will eventually reveal MLF and the receiving corps probably didn't get their fair share of the credit for Love's success last season.

No QB is made to look better by a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players.

This is an extreme overgeneralization. Their entire set of position players was categorically very good when everyone was healthy last year. Love was good too, but he did not have to carry the offense. Not even close.

Tangent point, this is what drove me insane about Rodgers buying in to MLF system and then reverting back to the Big Mac play.

The system is great, Love is great and the pass catchers are executing great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[nagawicka]

Daniel Jones had 15 TD's in 16 G in his best season ever as a fourth year starter. Daniel Jones was never considered a top-tier QB by anyone but the Giants. The list of QBs who have been similarly as prolific as Love was over the second half of last season is quite small.

Many people have Love as a top 12 QB today. Given he's 25, signing him to a big deal now is a no-brainer. If he performs at the level of Kirk Cousins or Jared Goff over most of a potential 50M+ extension, it will still be a good value with the salary cap going up.

I clearly said that Love is a lot more talented than Jones, and obviously he will get paid more as well. What they have in common is that their huge paydays will be based on less than a full season of performing well, and the same logic about the Packers having to pay Love (cost of doing business, have to pay your QB and hope it works out) was used to justify Jones's payday as well. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting it will work out the same, but if we're going to dunk on people for doubting Love too soon, it's fair to point out that some people might be declaring him the QB of the future too soon as well. We're still squarely in the formative assessment phase of his career, that's all I'm saying.

It's hardly too soon to declare Jordan Love the quarterback of the future. He's the Quarterback of Right Now. Packers were committed long before Love started that 10-game string of starts. There isn't any question here.

[coolhandluke121]

It's hardly too soon to declare Jordan Love the quarterback of the future. He's the Quarterback of Right Now. Packers were committed long before Love started that 10-game string of starts. There isn't any question here.

That's kind of semantics. Of course he's the QB of now; my point is that it's too early to assume that he will consistently play as well as he did last season, just like it was too early to write him off completely when he played so poorly through most of the first half. This is all being completely misrepresented as me saying they shouldn't give him a big extension or being down on him, which is putting words in my mouth. People were dunking on posters who gave up on Love too early, and I'm just pointing out that it's still early.

[MickeyDavis]

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[Treebeard]

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An interesting parallel thought to that idea, is how many Packers on the 53 man roster are on rookie contracts, compared to other teams? There may be an element of Cap strategy there.

[Matches Malone]

Happy OTA day for all you NFL sickos

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[MVP2110]

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