Game 9: Packers at Steelers - 11/12/23 - Noon - CBS

[ReasonablySober]

I'd love to know an example of a play you guys consider a "contested catch opportunity"

To me it's a play where both the WR & DB have a chance to make a play on the ball. To me that's most of the plays that were posted. In it's nature it's going to be a play that is hard to make which is why the success rate is under 50%.

A ball that the WR has an opportunity to catch. Get both hands on the it before a defender swats it away. In most of those throws the defender(s) are on top of the ball before Watson has a chance to catch it. That's uncatchable.

[WeekapaugGroove]

MVP insisting some of these are catchable and not flat out awful throws by Love is pure comedy. Like the 2nd vs. Vegas where Watson is forced to stop so the ball isn't entirely behind him allowing the DB to easily get in front and the final pick which was a bad underthrow? Saying he should have caught at least one against the Vikings against double or triple coverage or balls that are nowhere near where they should be? C'mon. That's delusional. Many of these are Love putting him in **** spots. It's undeniable.

I think we have seen our young WR not do a great job adjusting to the ball. Make no mistake, if Davante Adams is getting some of those throws he is coming down with them, where as Watson might just be too fast and not able to adjust YET. I still think we are in the growing pains mode with this young pass catcher core and we are still in the growing pains mode with Love too.

But I can at least see that TD to Doubs and know the guy has it in him, he does make some really nice throws and also some really poor ones. I'm banking on more experience from Love and more experience from the pass catchers and this offense could really start to click (although at this point I'd prefer we kind of tank, just keep giving me flashes)

I don't agree that Davante is coming down with these. These zero sum throws are precisely why he was frustrated at the start of the season with Jimmy G under center. And even so, you see the issue with comparing the single best route runner in the entire league and a guy with a HOF skillset to Christian Watson right?

We're in year 4 not year 1. This level of inaccuracy took us three years to get to. It'll always be a problem.

I think theres a ton of useless noise in the Love debate when it mostly comes down to will his accuracy improve to a passable level. Because right now you aren't winning at a high level with his accuracy. Too many plays left on the field.

I see throws where he has a clean pocket and he simply misses the spot he's intending by 3-5 yards. There's plenty that can be blamed on lack of game experience but I'm not sure simply missing your target falls in that category. There are mechanical things that can improve accuracy but this is where the 3 years sitting in theory should have fixed all that.

I don't think Love sucks, he can make some great throws. Hell Im actually concerned there's enough talent there to trick them into thinking he's the guy only to have him break your heart later in games that actually matter against good teams.

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[MVP2110]

I'd love to know an example of a play you guys consider a "contested catch opportunity"

To me it's a play where both the WR & DB have a chance to make a play on the ball. To me that's most of the plays that were posted. In it's nature it's going to be a play that is hard to make which is why the success rate is under 50%.

A ball that the WR has an opportunity to catch. Get both hands on the it before a defender swats it away. In most of those throws the defender(s) are on top of the ball before Watson has a chance to catch it. That's uncatchable.

Again using the Minnesota game example, in all 3 of the plays you posted, Watson is able to get both hands on the ball. I'd say he had an opportunity to catch those. They weren't great throws but Watson certainly has a chance to make a play on those

[ReasonablySober]

I'd love to know an example of a play you guys consider a "contested catch opportunity"

To me it's a play where both the WR & DB have a chance to make a play on the ball. To me that's most of the plays that were posted. In it's nature it's going to be a play that is hard to make which is why the success rate is under 50%.

A ball that the WR has an opportunity to catch. Get both hands on the it before a defender swats it away. In most of those throws the defender(s) are on top of the ball before Watson has a chance to catch it. That's uncatchable.

Again using the Minnesota game example, in all 3 of the plays you posted, Watson is able to get both hands on the ball. I'd say he had an opportunity to catch those. They weren't great throws but Watson certainly has a chance to make a play on those

In the first the defender gets a hand in there and tips it away before Watson touches the ball.

In the second Watson is clearly being interfered with any he never gets his right and on the ball.

In the last video he's got his best chance, but the defender times it perfectly and the ball is knocked away at the exact moment the ball hits Watson's fingertips.

He never had a shot at any of the three.

[MVP2110]

A ball that the WR has an opportunity to catch. Get both hands on the it before a defender swats it away. In most of those throws the defender(s) are on top of the ball before Watson has a chance to catch it. That's uncatchable.

Again using the Minnesota game example, in all 3 of the plays you posted, Watson is able to get both hands on the ball. I'd say he had an opportunity to catch those. They weren't great throws but Watson certainly has a chance to make a play on those

In the first the defender gets a hand in there and tips it away before Watson touches the ball.

In the second Watson is clearly being interfered with any he never gets his right and on the ball.

In the last video he's got his best chance, but the defender times it perfectly and the ball is knocked away at the exact moment the ball hits Watson's fingertips.

He never had a shot at any of the three.

Agree to disagree here. I stand by that all 3 of these are the exact definition of a contested catch opportunity. A contested catch opportunity by its nature is going to be contested which includes defenders getting their hands on the ball sometimes

[MVP2110]

And to get off the contested catch stuff, that's only a small sample of the season for Watson. We're talking a handful of plays. I don't think he's been good outside of that anyway.

[stillgotgame]

Given nearly all of our focus on the offense and specific players I think this is worth pointing out(again). Given the youth on the offense I think they've mostly been fine this season. The defense and the special teams have been the areas of letdown.

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Defense against the run was pathetic this week. A great example, Carrington Valentine just stands there and watches.

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[Finn]

That's fine, but I'm not taking anyone seriously who uses that 1/10 stat. If he was dropping those 50/50 then sure, criticize away. That's obviously not what's going on.

I mean most of what you posted would classify to me as a contested catch opportunity. Is he going to go perfect in those scenarios? Of course not, but on those throws he should have come down with a couple more at least.

Apologize for sticking my nose in here but I think your expectations are too high (maybe Adams can manage a couple of catches). Between Love & Watson (on these throws), Love is far more of the issue than Watson in my opinion.

[skones]

Clear Pass Break Ups because of bad throws are not "Contested Catch Opportunities." They're pass breakups, and I don't care if PFF classifies it as one.

THIS is a contested catch.

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[MVP2110]

Clear Pass Break Ups because of bad throws are not "Contested Catch Opportunities." They're pass breakups, and I don't care if PFF classifies it as one.

THIS is a contested catch.

Watch on YouTube

I agree. This is also a contested catch, one Doubs completed and very similar to the opportunity Watson had on the first play of the Vikings game

[skones]

Clear Pass Break Ups because of bad throws are not "Contested Catch Opportunities." They're pass breakups, and I don't care if PFF classifies it as one.

THIS is a contested catch.

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I agree. This is also a contested catch, one Doubs completed and very similar to the opportunity Watson had on the first play of the Vikings game

No, it's not. Because the one Doubs catches is actually on target and that's the whole point people are making for you here. Christian Watson is 6'4 with a 38.5" vertical and that ball is still high.

[MVP2110]

Clear Pass Break Ups because of bad throws are not "Contested Catch Opportunities." They're pass breakups, and I don't care if PFF classifies it as one.

THIS is a contested catch.

Watch on YouTube

I agree. This is also a contested catch, one Doubs completed and very similar to the opportunity Watson had on the first play of the Vikings game

No, it's not. Because the one Doubs catches is actually on target and that's the whole point people are making for you here. Christian Watson is 6'4 with a 38.5" vertical and that ball is still high.

Nah man. People have been complaining on here and other places for weeks about Watson's lack of contested catch ability this season. This is hardly just a me thing. Watson has been bad and most Packer fans can see that

[skones]

No, it's not. Because the one Doubs catches is actually on target and that's the whole point people are making for you here. Christian Watson is 6'4 with a 38.5" vertical and that ball is still high.

Nah man. People have been complaining on here and other places for weeks about Watson's lack of contested catch ability this season. This is hardly just a me thing. Watson has been bad and most Packer fans can see that[/quote]

SO, to be clear, you think Watson, in the particular play you're talking about, should just have jumped higher?

[MVP2110]

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Like it's hardly just me saying Watson is bad in contested catch situations

[skones]

Alright man, continue to deflect when asked very pointed questions.

[MVP2110]

Alright man, continue to deflect when asked very pointed questions.

You're acting like me pointing out that Watson has been bad in contested catch situations(and in general) is some sort of controversial opinion when a large majority of Packer fans would agree with that statement.

[skones]

Alright man, continue to deflect when asked very pointed questions.

You're acting like me pointing out that Watson has been bad in contested catch situations(and in general) is some sort of controversial opinion when a large majority of Packer fans would agree with that statement.

That's not what's happening here. In fact, no one is saying Watson is good. We're pointing to specific plays. You're just being stubborn and refusing to acknowledge them because you don't like to blame Jordan Love for anything. That's why when asked if you think he should jump higher by insisting that was an actual contested catch "opportunity" you came over the top with rando tweets like I can't find a million of them that say Jordan Love can't hit the broad side of a barn.

[Ron Swanson]

Correctly pointing out that Watson has been garbage on any reception opportunities that aren't slants and quick-hitters where he's wide the **** open doesn't have to be anything more than that. Give me any other pass-catcher with his size and athletic profile, and I would expect him to eventually come down with one of those balls, poor throws or not. Not everything has to be either an excuse or a criticism of Jordan Love.

[MVP2110]

Alright man, continue to deflect when asked very pointed questions.

You're acting like me pointing out that Watson has been bad in contested catch situations(and in general) is some sort of controversial opinion when a large majority of Packer fans would agree with that statement.

That's not what's happening here. In fact, no one is saying Watson is good. We're pointing to specific plays. You're just being stubborn and refusing to acknowledge them because you don't like to blame Jordan Love for anything. That's why when asked if you think he should jump higher by insisting that was an actual contested catch "opportunity" you came over the top with rando tweets like I can't find a million of them that say Jordan Love can't hit the broad side of a barn.

How many times do I have to say this has absolutely nothing to do with Jordan Love. Several of these plays are contested because of a bad throw by Love. I'm comparing Watson to the other WRs on the roster who are also playing with Jordan Love. Jordan Love is a constant in this equation for every WR.

[skones]

You're acting like me pointing out that Watson has been bad in contested catch situations(and in general) is some sort of controversial opinion when a large majority of Packer fans would agree with that statement.

That's not what's happening here. In fact, no one is saying Watson is good. We're pointing to specific plays. You're just being stubborn and refusing to acknowledge them because you don't like to blame Jordan Love for anything. That's why when asked if you think he should jump higher by insisting that was an actual contested catch "opportunity" you came over the top with rando tweets like I can't find a million of them that say Jordan Love can't hit the broad side of a barn.

How many times do I have to say this has absolutely nothing to do with Jordan Love. Several of these plays are contested because of a bad throw by Love. I'm comparing Watson to the other WRs on the roster who are also playing with Jordan Love. Jordan Love is a constant in this equation for every WR.

You were all about aDOT affecting completion percentage earlier this year, and Watson leads that category with players with 30 or more targets this season by a WIDE margin. But that doesn't fit your narrative, so you've thrown that out, equalized all route trees and opportunities among all receivers even though that's not a thing, and pointed explicitly to a rating when targeted, and ignored context.

Receivers DON'T receive the same type of targets. That's why they have different names, X, Z, and slot.

Watson isn't good. He's an athletic dude who can run in a straight line. That's his skill set. Love struggles down field, he struggles on the boundary, and we saw what an accurate QB who had his own issues because of injury, make use of that skill set last season. The blame falls on both, but blindly just attributing it to Watson being bad, as stated, ignores the other side of the coin.