Vikings Leadup

[dinderdan]

Hopefully Nixon and Watson are good to go.

Fixed

[the_urre14]

Pretty insane to act like Rodgers hasn't continued to play mediocre as hell while all those parts around him have played much, much better.

Bottom 10 is a lot different than mediocre. I'd also love to hear which offensive players have played much, much better as of late in your opinion.

Mediocre is pretty ambiguous/broad and can include the high end of the bottom 10. And I'm not saying particular players have played better, I'm saying as units they've been better - e.g., by Jenkins returning to form, Watson returning from injury emerging as an absolutely deadly weapon, Zach Tom emerging as a really solid LT and an upgrade over the corpse of Bakhtiari, Doubs being back, etc.

And still Rodgers is playing just as poorly. His numbers are getting a little better because the rest of the offense is getting better, but he's still throwing terrible interceptions, overthrowing wide open receivers by several yards, holding the ball way too long instead of throwing it away, not seeing wide open receivers, and misfiring even on short throws. The play of the rest of the offense has helped his numbers, but he's still playing poorly.

Just because the rest of the offense was trash for the first half of the season doesn't mean his continued poor play should be excused. It's not trash anymore and yet he's still doing the same crap. Most starting QB's and probably 8-10 backups could have done at least as well as he's done under the circumstances.

So your conclusion is that the offense is carrying Rodgers right? To tell that Packers would be better with random guys like Daniel Jones or Ryan Tannehill is just insane.

[coolhandluke121]

I was with you until this part. Like c'mon. The offense is ranked 7th in DVOA over the past 5 weeks and you're telling me every QB and 8-10 backups would have led GB to this same success? Sorry, but that's just crazy talk.

I've praised the offense myself several times, but the reality is that Rodgers is not the one playing well. Like, at all.

[coolhandluke121]

So your conclusion is that the offense is carrying Rodgers right? To tell that Packers would be better with random guys like Daniel Jones or Ryan Tannehill is just insane.

I mean, yes. Like, definitely. He's not playing well, period. That's obvious just watching him. And he wasn't great the last two years either, although he was much better than he is this year. An amazing supporting cast carried him to two MVP's and the scheme made his job easy. Don't know why the play-calling went to **** this year, but it was excellent the last two years, as were the WR's, RB's, and OL.

ETA: Daniel Jones clearly outplayed Rodgers head-to-head this year, regardless of supporting casts. Several other scrubs and back-ups have done the same, and I'm not the only one who said so. Go look in those game threads for a reminder of how badly Rodgers played, because you obviously don't remember the games and you're just abstractly blaming it on his supporting cast.

[the_urre14]

So your conclusion is that the offense is carrying Rodgers right? To tell that Packers would be better with random guys like Daniel Jones or Ryan Tannehill is just insane.

I mean, yes. Like, definitely. He's not playing well, period. That's obvious just watching him. And he wasn't great the last two years either, although he was much better than he is this year. An amazing supporting cast carried him to two MVP's and the scheme made his job easy. Don't know why the play-calling went to **** this year, but it was excellent the last two years, as were the WR's, RB's, and OL.

ETA: Daniel Jones clearly outplayed Rodgers head-to-head this year, regardless of supporting casts. Several other scrubs and back-ups have done the same, and I'm not the only one who said so. Go look in those game threads for a reminder of how badly Rodgers played, because you obviously don't remember the games and you're just abstractly blaming it on his supporting cast.

Wow, back to back MVP didn´t play great football those years. And you tell me I´m the one not watching the games. Read what you just wrote man. He played in a good offense with a good scheme, yeah, like every quarterback who plays well in the NFL. No quarterback can play at a high level consistently with a dysfunctional offense or with receivers that drop passes all the time. You might think that Mahomes or Burrow play football with amateur receivers and a clown as a head coach. Guess at this point you are just trolling. Also, Daniel Jones went against the bull***t defense that we have had this year, don´t think at this point Rodgers can play defense.

[MoMM]

He is just a hater, probably, according to him, Love would take us to the 1st seed this year.

[Ron Swanson]

Obviously ludicrous to suggest he was anything but awesome the last two regular seasons, but it's equally as ludicrous at this point to say that Rodgers has been anything other than crap even during this recent stretch. That's exactly why I'd prefer to see Love out there.

[PintSizedBox10]

85 TDS and 9 INTS over 2 seasons isn't good to Coolluke, so no wonder he thinks Rodgers is now playing worse than most QBs and backups haha

Back on topic. Packers are winning this one by 14.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[coolhandluke121]

85 TDS and 9 INTS over 2 seasons isn't good to Coolluke, so no wonder he thinks Rodgers is now playing worse than most QBs and backups haha

I said "not great" but I guess some people have fun twisting opposing arguments to make them easier to refute. I was constantly warning last offseason that the scheme and the supporting cast had made Rodgers look much better than he really was and saw this year's performance coming a million miles away. I'm not going to find those posts, but I guarantee that they're there in the offseason debates.

He's been a disaster considering what he's making this year, let alone what they could have traded him for. His steady decline began in 2017 and he wasn't nearly as good individually the last two years as he was in his prime. He never previously had OL play, RB play, and the best WR in football all at the same time the way he did the last two years, and it masked the fact that his downfield accuracy and his elusiveness remained in steady decline despite his MVP numbers. He was a selfish player his first year under MLF, but then he bought into the scheme and took more short throws the last two years, getting rid of the ball faster and relying on some of the best yards-after-catch numbers in the league, if not the best. Drops were also extremely low and analytics consistently ranked MLF's play-calling as among the best in football, if not the best (don't know what's happening there this year to be honest, but that's a different subject).

He was the best QB ever for close to 10 years IMO, but hasn't been anything close to that recently. The last two years, he was a really good QB playing in a great offense. This year, his decline has accelerated, but it's been going on all along.

[LUKE23]

Using MLF's scheme as an excuse for AR's great play is ridiculous. If you are going to do that, then you have to do it for every single QB that has a great statistical season with a good offensive coach. I get that you don't like AR, but there is no way around it, he was absolutely dominant the last two seasons before this one. He led the NFL in Adjusted Yards per Attempt in 2020 and was right behind that number in 2021. Led the NFL in QB rating in both 2020 and 2021. Led the NFL in QBR in both 2020 and 2021. Led the NFL in TD% in both 2020 and 2021. I mean, there is just no way to spin that he wasn't dominant.

[coolhandluke121]

Bottom line, if you're so quick to blame a bad supporting cast for so many of Rodgers's failings this year, then why is it so hard to concede that a great supporting cast might have been responsible for so much of his success the previous two years? He was a cross between Steve Young, Dan Marino, and Brett Favre in his prime, but he was more like Kurt Warner in a perfect situation the last two years, and this year's struggles are proof that he was much more dependent on Adams and the OL than he ever was on his good receivers in the past.

[coolhandluke121]

Call me a hater all you want, but I routinely go to bat for his talent and argue with people that he's the best QB of all time. This isn't about personal animosity for him, although I admit I think he's a jerk; this is about the fact that it was obvious to me that he wasn't worth MVP money, that it should have been obvious to the Packers front office as well, and that it was an incredible opportunity to cash out on an incredible career resurgence for which he was getting a lot more credit than he deserved. They could have pawned this crap off on Denver for an amazing haul, saved $50m, and still been just as good this year, if not better, and I predicted all of that in the offseason debate threads so please don't accuse me of hindsight.

[the_urre14]

If you keep thinking that last 2 years anyone could have been the MVP in this Packer team and that with this years receiving corp, OL play and schematic flaws you put a rookie with 1 start in his career or another mediocre quarterback and would be playing better than Rodgers, you are either Peter Bukowski (a hater) or you have no clue (with all my respect). Last year Jordan Love was able to put an outstanding 7 POINTS with the same team that you say anyone could carry and win the MVP. One thing is to say that this is not the 28 year old Rodgers who could carry a crappy team with a s**t defense to the Conference Championship game, and another thing is to say that he is a bottom 10 QB.

[coolhandluke121]

If you keep thinking that last 2 years anyone could have been the MVP in this Packer team and that with this years receiving corp, OL play and schematic flaws you put a rookie with 1 start in his career or another mediocre quarterback and would be playing better than Rodgers, you are either Peter Bukowski (a hater) or you have no clue (with all my respect). Last year Jordan Love was able to put an outstanding 7 POINTS with the same team that you say anyone could carry and win the MVP. One thing is to say that this is not the 28 year old Rodgers who could carry a crappy team with a s**t defense to the Conference Championship game, and another thing is to say that he is a bottom 10 QB.

What the hell are you talking about? I never said any average QB could have done what Rodgers did the last two years. I said any average QB could be doing what he has done this year, and that there were warning signs the last two years that he wasn't as great as his numbers indicated, which would have made his steep decline this year less surprising if the front office had been paying closer attention. And yes, I still have him in the bottom 10 of performance this year. He's been below average.

[stillgotgame]

How do I block someone on here lol. I thought trolling was done on other forums, but not here.

Rodgers sure hasn’t been good this year, no doubt. A broken thumb and no receivers will do that. But now Watson has managed to catch a few and Doubs looks a lot like rookie Devante, future is bright.

More importantly how’s Watson’s hamstring doing? And did Jones not play because he was hurt, we really need him back.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't think anyone is changing anyone's mind on Rodgers and it's tedious/repetitive so let's move on. This is the Vikings leadup thread, talk about the upcoming game.

[Treebeard]

A few roster moves today:

The Green Bay Packers have placed DL Dean Lowry on injured reserve, signed WR Bo Melton to the active roster from the Seattle Seahawks' practice squad, and released LB Tipa Galeai (tee-puh nah-lee-eye) from injured reserve. General Manager Brian Gutekunst announced the transactions Tuesday.

[MoMM]

Bo Melton seems to be able to be a returner, maybe an insurance in case Nixon doesn't play?

[Flames24Rulz]

Wyatt getting to play instead of Lowry feels like a pretty big W.

[coolhandluke121]

Wyatt getting to play instead of Lowry feels like a pretty big W.

I was a little skeptical after Wyatt played pretty well against the Rams, just because their OL is such a disaster. I was sold on his upside last week though. He's already shown me something that I don't think Lowry, Reed, or Lancaster ever showed in a Packers uniform. Feeling a lot better about that pick all of a sudden.

I think Walker needs to be utilized as more of a pass rusher than most ILB's, but he's been looking good too - just not very instinctive against the run. The scheme lets receivers eat them alive anyway, so they may as well attack the QB more and hope to get TO's. Enagbare looks like a keeper for sure.