2018 regular season thread

[Jedzz]

Zimmer is coming off a 13-3 season, I don’t know why people are so anxious to push him out. Of course we fired coaches after our last 2 NFC championship seasons, people get their expectations up and get reactionary.

Because he's following up a big season with a huge let down of a season and he's done it before, and then the coaches before him did the same exact thing. For whatever reason, they can't build on successes here. They don't know how.

It would be one thing to go from 13-3 down to 10-6 and a wildcard entrance. But to go from 13-3 to .500 or worse? And it's not the first time.

I do believe it is the combo of GM/coach. Maybe the coach would improve if there was a different GM. Not sure.

But this team followed up 2009 with an offseason of not improving the Oline. 2010 happened. 12-4 to 6-10

2012 to 2013. 10-6 to 5-10-1

2015 to 2016 11-5 to 8-8 Zimmer

2017 to 2018 13-3 to currently 6-6-1 Zimmer

[Worm Guts]

Don't get me wrong I think Zim played a part in turning around this defense. I still remember the Frazier defensive days. But I think it's clear as day that he's not a head coach. I give big props to HCs like Nagy and McVay do it right. It's clear as day they know their game is offense and they let their DCs run their game plan.

I'm just done with this group running the team. They clearly overlooked one of the most if not the most important position with the offensive line for so long.

Zimmer did more than play a part creating this defense. This defense is 100 percent his.

I think he's admitting that already. The thing is it doesn't matter, because he helped break the offense year after year.

The thing is this defense played well for most of this game. But that hasn't been the norm this season. It's his defense and it's stunk as much as it's been good this season. Meanwhile the offense always gets worse as the season rolls on. The Oline constantly fails to perform or get better. These are problems the head coach has his stamp on.

I honestly don’t know that Zimmer has much do with the offense. If we have a coordinator who’s doing well, then our offense is doing well. The big issue has been the offensive line which has been ignored for a long time and I’m more apt to blame Spielman for that.

[Worm Guts]

Zimmer is coming off a 13-3 season, I don’t know why people are so anxious to push him out. Of course we fired coaches after our last 2 NFC championship seasons, people get their expectations up and get reactionary.

Because he's following up a big season with a huge let down of a season and he's done it before, and then the coaches before him did the same exact thing. For whatever reason, they can't build on successes here. Their heads inflate, egos through the roof and you have them doing things like drafting kickers because they think they have it all figured out. I read someone's "cruise control" post around here. I with I remembered who's post that was. Lot's of little truths in that post. That's how you follow up a 13-3 with a losing season. Losing season is where this team is heading really fast.

That can be the nature of the NFL, but he took a 5 win team and turned it into a 13-3 team within 4 years.

[Duke4life831]

Zimmer did more than play a part creating this defense. This defense is 100 percent his.

I think he's admitting that already. The thing is it doesn't matter, because he helped break the offense year after year.

The thing is this defense played well for most of this game. But that hasn't been the norm this season. It's his defense and it's stunk as much as it's been good this season. Meanwhile the offense always gets worse as the season rolls on. The Oline constantly fails to perform or get better. These are problems the head coach has his stamp on.

I honestly don’t know that Zimmer has much do with the offense. If we have a coordinator who’s doing well, then our offense is doing well. The big issue has been the offensive line which has been ignored for a long time and I’m more apt to blame Spielman for that.

Ya I give Zim credit for the defense. I wouldn't mind Zim being the DC.

The issue I have with Zim is the offense. It doesn't matter the OC we get we run the same offensive scheme. Norv was the super aggressive OC. He got fed up with Zim and quit mid season, how often do you see that? Defillipo is coming from an offense that was known for its imagination and creative and aggressive play calling. He gets here, we start off having a pretty good passing attack. Then there is report after report that Zim isn't happy with the offense and wants more rushing. He wants a slow grind it out offense to go with his defense. That is the complete opposite of this offensive roster.

[Jedzz]

Zimmer is coming off a 13-3 season, I don’t know why people are so anxious to push him out. Of course we fired coaches after our last 2 NFC championship seasons, people get their expectations up and get reactionary.

Because he's following up a big season with a huge let down of a season and he's done it before, and then the coaches before him did the same exact thing. For whatever reason, they can't build on successes here. Their heads inflate, egos through the roof and you have them doing things like drafting kickers because they think they have it all figured out. I read someone's "cruise control" post around here. I with I remembered who's post that was. Lot's of little truths in that post. That's how you follow up a 13-3 with a losing season. Losing season is where this team is heading really fast.

That can be the nature of the NFL, but he took a 5 win team and turned it into a 13-3 team within 4 years.

Two years before he got here the team had a winning season. Vikings then had a bad season and fired the coaches and hired zimmer. He's gone up and then right back down every season himself. Like the coaches before him that were fired for it.

[Worm Guts]

I think he's admitting that already. The thing is it doesn't matter, because he helped break the offense year after year.

The thing is this defense played well for most of this game. But that hasn't been the norm this season. It's his defense and it's stunk as much as it's been good this season. Meanwhile the offense always gets worse as the season rolls on. The Oline constantly fails to perform or get better. These are problems the head coach has his stamp on.

I honestly don’t know that Zimmer has much do with the offense. If we have a coordinator who’s doing well, then our offense is doing well. The big issue has been the offensive line which has been ignored for a long time and I’m more apt to blame Spielman for that.

Ya I give Zim credit for the defense. I wouldn't mind Zim being the DC.

The issue I have with Zim is the offense. It doesn't matter the OC we get we run the same offensive scheme. Norv was the super aggressive OC. He got fed up with Zim and quit mid season, how often do you see that? Defillipo is coming from an offense that was known for its imagination and creative and aggressive play calling. He gets here, we start off having a pretty good passing attack. Then there is report after report that Zim isn't happy with the offense and wants more rushing. He wants a slow grind it out offense to go with his defense. That is the complete opposite of this offensive roster.

I don’t know if I’d blame Zimmer for Turner leaving, he wasn’t having much success and I think Zimmer was giving more responsibility to Shurmur, who did much better.
Zimmer maybe should take some of the blame tonight for trying to force DeFilipo into being something he’s not.
Of course the driving force for all these issues has been a poor offensive line. It’s been neglected for years.

[Jedzz]

Ya I give Zim credit for the defense. I wouldn't mind Zim being the DC.

The issue I have with Zim is the offense. It doesn't matter the OC we get we run the same offensive scheme. Norv was the super aggressive OC. He got fed up with Zim and quit mid season, how often do you see that? Defillipo is coming from an offense that was known for its imagination and creative and aggressive play calling. He gets here, we start off having a pretty good passing attack. Then there is report after report that Zim isn't happy with the offense and wants more rushing. He wants a slow grind it out offense to go with his defense. That is the complete opposite of this offensive roster.

You could not have said it better in my opinion. This is what it is.

I think Shurmur did more of what he wanted to, more of what worked for the players he had. We can take one look at how Shurmur and Case refused to focus any time on Treadwell to see the difference. The team still forced Treadwell to be on the field. But that doesn't mean they called plays for him at all. Norv and Defillippo get pushed by Zimmer/GM. Shurmur must have allowed it less. Because right now there really is a parallel to how the offense looked under Norv here. The funny part is neither Norv or Defillippo should have an offense that looks like this. This is Zimmer ball and Zimmer was happy as a clam with a 6-0 game in the third quarter. This team will live or die on making/missing field goals and live or die on a high pressure come from behind drive late. The head coach does not want his team leading the game by scoring because that will make life harder on his defense as the opponent starts to chase. It's truly the tail wagging the dog.

[Jedzz]

Zimmer is coming off a 13-3 season, I don’t know why people are so anxious to push him out. Of course we fired coaches after our last 2 NFC championship seasons, people get their expectations up and get reactionary.

Because he's following up a big season with a huge let down of a season and he's done it before, and then the coaches before him did the same exact thing. For whatever reason, they can't build on successes here. Their heads inflate, egos through the roof and you have them doing things like drafting kickers because they think they have it all figured out. I read someone's "cruise control" post around here. I wish I remembered who's post that was. Lot's of little truths in that post. That's how you follow up a 13-3 with a losing season. Losing season is where this team is heading really fast.

That can be the nature of the NFL, but he took a 5 win team and turned it into a 13-3 team within 4 years.

So, every three or four years he might have a 13-3 season and then he will immediately crush his own team up into a ball of losing and then roll them back out into his cookie cutter form of defense only team and try to make another run at wild card level football playing?

We can give him credit for improving what he walked into while at the same time recognize he's trashed his own team twice after reaching high record seasons. We can keep making all the excuses in the world but the way this team get's outcoached in December and January has been a constant. The way the team can quit on him during a game and not show up at all out of the blue are all constants in every season. Focus on that 13-3 season. Ask yourself how a team that good could also have losses that were as bad as they were.

[Duke4life831]

I'll kind of tie it back to basketball. But I kind of look at Zim as I looked at Mark Jackson for the Warriors. I give Jackson a lot of credit for giving GS a defensive mind set and he definitely helped the team. I remember the talk of are the Warriors really thinking about firing a coach that brought them to back 2 back playoffs and a 50 win season. But there was a clear limit to where the team was going to go with him.

That's kind of how I see Zim. He came in, gave the team a defensive mind set and really turned around a struggling franchise. But I think there is a clear limit to where he can take this team. Honestly I think Zim has done his part, now we need to find the Steve Kerr for this team to take us to the next level.

Let's remember last year even with the 13 wins it took a miracle to win 1 playoff game and then we got blown out. Childress led us to back 2 back playoffs and a 12 win season. He was fired one season after his 12 win season, that was a rightful firing.

[Duke4life831]

Ya I give Zim credit for the defense. I wouldn't mind Zim being the DC.

The issue I have with Zim is the offense. It doesn't matter the OC we get we run the same offensive scheme. Norv was the super aggressive OC. He got fed up with Zim and quit mid season, how often do you see that? Defillipo is coming from an offense that was known for its imagination and creative and aggressive play calling. He gets here, we start off having a pretty good passing attack. Then there is report after report that Zim isn't happy with the offense and wants more rushing. He wants a slow grind it out offense to go with his defense. That is the complete opposite of this offensive roster.

You could not have said it better in my opinion. This is what it is.

I think Shurmur did more of what he wanted to, more of what worked for the players he had. We can take one look at how Shurmur and Case refused to focus any time on Treadwell to see the difference. The team still forced Treadwell to be on the field. But that doesn't mean they called plays for him at all. Norv and Defillippo get pushed by Zimmer/GM. Shurmur must have allowed it less. Because right now there really is a parallel to how the offense looked under Norv here. The funny part is neither Norv or Defillippo should have an offense that looks like this. This is Zimmer ball and Zimmer was happy as a clam with a 6-0 game in the third quarter. This team will live or die on making/missing field goals and live or die on a high pressure come from behind drive late. The head coach does not want his team leading the game by scoring because that will make life harder on his defense as the opponent starts to chase. It's truly the tail wagging the dog.

Even last year it took Keenum basically having a perfect game every week to keep his job. It was clear as day Zim wanted to bench him and bring in Teddy once he returned, who was the far more conservative QB. A QB that fit his offense a lot more than Case. It always infuriated me hearing Zim talking to the press every week basically insinuating that Case's job was on the line.

[Worm Guts]

Because he's following up a big season with a huge let down of a season and he's done it before, and then the coaches before him did the same exact thing. For whatever reason, they can't build on successes here. Their heads inflate, egos through the roof and you have them doing things like drafting kickers because they think they have it all figured out. I read someone's "cruise control" post around here. I wish I remembered who's post that was. Lot's of little truths in that post. That's how you follow up a 13-3 with a losing season. Losing season is where this team is heading really fast.

That can be the nature of the NFL, but he took a 5 win team and turned it into a 13-3 team within 4 years.

So, every three or four years he might have a 13-3 season and then he will immediately crush his own team up into a ball of losing and then roll them back out into his cookie cutter form of defense only team and try to make another run at wild card level football playing?

We can give him credit for improving what he walked into while at the same time recognize he's trashed his own team twice after reaching high record seasons. We can keep making all the excuses in the world but the way this team get's outcoached in December and January has been a constant. The way the team can quit on him during a game and not show up at all out of the blue are all constants in every season. Focus on that 13-3 season. Ask yourself how a team that good could also have losses that were as bad as they were.

I thought last years team was an 8-8 team before the season, so you’re not really going to convince me they underachieved.
The team isn’t doomed to up and down cycles just because of Zimmer. I do think we need to do something that will stabilize the offense, and probably has to be a franchise QB.
You get rid of Zimmer though and I think you seriously risk losing the high level defense.

[Worm Guts]

Ya I give Zim credit for the defense. I wouldn't mind Zim being the DC.

The issue I have with Zim is the offense. It doesn't matter the OC we get we run the same offensive scheme. Norv was the super aggressive OC. He got fed up with Zim and quit mid season, how often do you see that? Defillipo is coming from an offense that was known for its imagination and creative and aggressive play calling. He gets here, we start off having a pretty good passing attack. Then there is report after report that Zim isn't happy with the offense and wants more rushing. He wants a slow grind it out offense to go with his defense. That is the complete opposite of this offensive roster.

You could not have said it better in my opinion. This is what it is.

I think Shurmur did more of what he wanted to, more of what worked for the players he had. We can take one look at how Shurmur and Case refused to focus any time on Treadwell to see the difference. The team still forced Treadwell to be on the field. But that doesn't mean they called plays for him at all. Norv and Defillippo get pushed by Zimmer/GM. Shurmur must have allowed it less. Because right now there really is a parallel to how the offense looked under Norv here. The funny part is neither Norv or Defillippo should have an offense that looks like this. This is Zimmer ball and Zimmer was happy as a clam with a 6-0 game in the third quarter. This team will live or die on making/missing field goals and live or die on a high pressure come from behind drive late. The head coach does not want his team leading the game by scoring because that will make life harder on his defense as the opponent starts to chase. It's truly the tail wagging the dog.

Even last year it took Keenum basically having a perfect game every week to keep his job. It was clear as day Zim wanted to bench him and bring in Teddy once he returned, who was the far more conservative QB. A QB that fit his offense a lot more than Case. It always infuriated me hearing Zim talking to the press every week basically insinuating that Case's job was on the line.

Case came so far out of nowhere that I don’t that I can fault Zimmer for expecting him to fail. If you look at the commonality between 2016 and 2018, to me it looks like it’s an immobile QB with nonexistent offensive line and I blame that on Spielman.

[Worm Guts]

I think that probably needs to be reinforced. We didn’t just go 13-3 last year, we went 13-3 with Case Keemun as our QB.

[Duke4life831]

You could not have said it better in my opinion. This is what it is.

I think Shurmur did more of what he wanted to, more of what worked for the players he had. We can take one look at how Shurmur and Case refused to focus any time on Treadwell to see the difference. The team still forced Treadwell to be on the field. But that doesn't mean they called plays for him at all. Norv and Defillippo get pushed by Zimmer/GM. Shurmur must have allowed it less. Because right now there really is a parallel to how the offense looked under Norv here. The funny part is neither Norv or Defillippo should have an offense that looks like this. This is Zimmer ball and Zimmer was happy as a clam with a 6-0 game in the third quarter. This team will live or die on making/missing field goals and live or die on a high pressure come from behind drive late. The head coach does not want his team leading the game by scoring because that will make life harder on his defense as the opponent starts to chase. It's truly the tail wagging the dog.

Even last year it took Keenum basically having a perfect game every week to keep his job. It was clear as day Zim wanted to bench him and bring in Teddy once he returned, who was the far more conservative QB. A QB that fit his offense a lot more than Case. It always infuriated me hearing Zim talking to the press every week basically insinuating that Case's job was on the line.

Case came so far out of nowhere that I don’t that I can fault Zimmer for expecting him to fail. If you look at the commonality between 2016 and 2018, to me it looks like it’s an immobile QB with nonexistent offensive line and I blame that on Spielman.

I agree 100% that a lot of this is on Spielman. That is why I have said multiple times I think there needs to be a complete overhaul starting at the top.

Back to the Case thing, having your coach come out every week and letting everyone know he basically has very little faith in his QB, probably isnt the best route to take. I just feel like Zim shoots himself in his own foot. Again Norv getting so frustrated and quitting mid season, he has never done that and I cant recall hearing an OC or DC quitting mid season happening too often. Report after report this year that Zim keeps telling Defillipo stop being so aggressive and run the ball more. This would be like an offensive head coach hiring Dick LeBeau and telling him dont blitz so much.

[Worm Guts]

I think Norv quit because Zimmer was giving Shurmur his responsibilities, not because he was telling him what plays to run.

[Duke4life831]

I think that probably needs to be reinforced. We didn’t just go 13-3 last year, we went 13-3 with Case Keemun as our QB.

Brad Childress went 10-6 with Gus Ferrotte and Tavaris Jackson as the QBs. He had a magical season with a 40 year old Favre 1 year. Doesnt last year look like we just hit lightning in a bottle with Case? Kind of like the 1 year with Favre. We are going to be looking at 5 years and 1 playoff win under Zim, and that playoff win came off of a miracle. We had 5 years and 1 playoff win under Childress. Childress was fired mid season after his previous 2 seasons were 10-6 and 12-4.

[Duke4life831]

I think Norv quit because Zimmer was giving Shurmur his responsibilities, not because he was telling him what plays to run.

All the reports basically said the riff started because of Zim and Norv disagreed on how to run the offense. Here is a report back when he quit.

"Turner and head coach Mike Zimmer disagreed on the best way to run the offense, according to Albert Breer of The MMQB. It wasn't a huge rift, but they couldn't come to terms on the margins of it, the details of the offensive system that needed to be changed in order to better protect the quarterback, get the running game going again, and score more than 20 points a game.

"We had a lot of challenges," Turner told Breer. "And for a period of time, we were able to hide some problems we had, but it catches up to you. And then we just had a difference of opinion—or what I felt was a difference of opinion—on what we needed to do to give our guys the best chance to fix it.""

And again we are hearing the exact same things this year. There have been multiple reports and during multiple games they have brought up Zim telling Defillipo on how to adjust and change the offense. So what happened with Norv shouldnt be that surprising.

[Worm Guts]

I think that probably needs to be reinforced. We didn’t just go 13-3 last year, we went 13-3 with Case Keemun as our QB.

Brad Childress went 10-6 with Gus Ferrotte and Tavaris Jackson as the QBs. He had a magical season with a 40 year old Favre 1 year. Doesnt last year look like we just hit lightning in a bottle with Case? Kind of like the 1 year with Favre. We are going to be looking at 5 years and 1 playoff win under Zim, and that playoff win came off of a miracle. We had 5 years and 1 playoff win under Childress. Childress was fired mid season after his previous 2 seasons were 10-6 and 12-4.

I don’t know that Childress should have been fired based only on his success, but he was also an offensive coach who usually didn’t have a good offense and nobody seemed to like him.
And if you remember the Childress era was followed by Frazier era, which was much worse. You fire someone like Zimmer, you might get someone better, but you’ll probably get someone worse.

[Duke4life831]

I think that probably needs to be reinforced. We didn’t just go 13-3 last year, we went 13-3 with Case Keemun as our QB.

Brad Childress went 10-6 with Gus Ferrotte and Tavaris Jackson as the QBs. He had a magical season with a 40 year old Favre 1 year. Doesnt last year look like we just hit lightning in a bottle with Case? Kind of like the 1 year with Favre. We are going to be looking at 5 years and 1 playoff win under Zim, and that playoff win came off of a miracle. We had 5 years and 1 playoff win under Childress. Childress was fired mid season after his previous 2 seasons were 10-6 and 12-4.

I don’t know that Childress should have been fired based only on his success, but he was also an offensive coach who usually didn’t have a good offense and nobody seemed to like him.
And if you remember the Childress era was followed by Frazier era, which was much worse. You fire someone like Zimmer, you might get someone better, but you’ll probably get someone worse.

I agree with you 100%. We could easily fire Zim and end up with another Frazier. Back to my GS example though, they couldve just treadmill with Mark Jackson as their coach but they took a chance on a new coach to see if he couldve taken them to the next level. GS couldve easily ended up with Derek Fisher and we wouldve never seen the GS that we know now.

All im saying is I dont know how much better we are going to get under Zimmer. I think we will always have a stud defense under him. But I dont see this offense ever being consistently good under him. Honestly I just think he is a really good DC, just not a HC. I think he is too much of a perfectionist to not stick his hands in on the offensive side of the ball. You dont hear reports of McVay poking his head in Wade Phillips play book, or Nagy in Fangio's play book. Again great coordinator, just dont see a great HC.

[Worm Guts]

I just look at Zimmer and he has a real impact on one side of the ball, and I don’t kknow that Vikings have had a head coach before that I could say that about.