2024 Off-Season

[JMaster5K]

I'd be interested to know how many people think he is really worth his max. I know all salaries are probably at an inflated value, but I'd have to say he isn't worth that.

Hey, I have to keep up my reputation for being a cheap a**, right?

Tom I would also like to pay less but do think Pascal is worth the max especially compared to Tyrese.

Tyrese on the other hand is not worth the max currently. I know he’s hurt and looked like a max player mid season, however will he be durable enough to stay healthy for playoff series in the future. Also he drastically needs to improve his defense as he is a liability giving up so many drives to the hoop.

I hope Tyrese becomes worth his salary as he matures his skills.

I think Tyrese’s distributing ability is so immense that when you add in his long range shooting, he’s clearly worth a max salary. If he drastically improves his defense, he’d be a first ballot hall of famer, and on pace to be a top 25 player of all time.

We haven’t seen a true max salary player here in a long time. We might need to reset our expectations of what that type of player is.

Maybe we have a small case of recency bias? Who do we think Ty really is? The player we see, right now in the playoffs, clearly not moving right, at times clearly hurting? or the player that played the first 2/3's of season at a consensus, near MVP level?...

I have to believe that the early season Ty, is the real Ty. The guy we are seeing at the moment is doing everything he can to help his team win, when he probably shouldn't be? He probably shouldn't have played the last 15 games of the season the way he did? We will see at the start of next season, but I just don't think he's had the chance for a 'normal' recovery from his back / hamstring? Until he has that chance, I don't think it's fair to read too much into his personal performance in this playoffs?

Far as I'm concerned,... we won more than 38.5 games projected by the sportsbook,.. won more than the 42.5 games we forecasted,... no one had us winning 47 games. Even our most optimistic guess from this board was 45 games. Our preseason forecasts had us 'on the bubble' to be a playin team,... at best. We are in the Eastern Conference semi-final.

I don't think any of that happens without Ty? Were we a good team pre-Ty, arguably yes. Are we a team that believes we can legit win playoff games vs good teams, if we don't have Ty playing the way he did this season & bringing the drive & confidence,... I don't think so.

[Wizop]

I just don't think he's had the chance for a 'normal' recovery from his back / hamstring? Until he has that chance, I don't think it's fair to read too much into his personal performance in this playoffs?

I worry a bit about him not having the summer off. playing in the Olympics could be trouble.

[Tom White]

I don't think any of that happens without Ty? Were we a good team pre-Ty, arguably yes. Are we a team that believes we can legit win playoff games vs good teams, if we don't have Ty playing the way he did this season & bringing the drive & confidence,... I don't think so.

As long as we are doing "what ifs", I'll add a couple.

Do you think we would be where we are if Giannis had not missed the entire playoff series and if Lillard had not missed most of the series?

Do you think we would still be playing if the Knicks had their complete roster, including Randle, Bogdanovic, Robinson and now OG available?

My own answers to those are the Bucks would have won that series with a healthy Giannis. I know we won the regular season match-up with them, but the playoffs are a different animal.

With the Knicks? I'm not sure, but I think those missing players could have swung one of the closer games in their favor.

At this point, we just have to hope the Pacers are able to finally bring the ferocity and aggression they play with at home to a road game.

[Pacers Forever]

I don't think any of that happens without Ty? Were we a good team pre-Ty, arguably yes. Are we a team that believes we can legit win playoff games vs good teams, if we don't have Ty playing the way he did this season & bringing the drive & confidence,... I don't think so.

As long as we are doing "what ifs", I'll add a couple.

Do you think we would be where we are if Giannis had not missed the entire playoff series and if Lillard had not missed most of the series?

Do you think we would still be playing if the Knicks had their complete roster, including Randle, Bogdanovic, Robinson and now OG available?

My own answers to those are the Bucks would have won that series with a healthy Giannis. I know we won the regular season match-up with them, but the playoffs are a different animal.

With the Knicks? I'm not sure, but I think those missing players could have swung one of the closer games in their favor.

At this point, we just have to hope the Pacers are able to finally bring the ferocity and aggression they play with at home to a road game.

Great point Tom ! I feel like the Pacers are a team of opportunity this season rather than a dominant contender. They’re good enough to compete for wins against these 2 teams, but still too young in playoff experience and age to dominate.

I still feel like they need to add another veteran piece to the starting lineup next season besides keeping Tyrese, Pascal, and Myles. That would mean moving some combo of players like Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, and picks. Pretty sure TJ, I Jax, Obi, and Sheppard will be staying put.

The other option is to bring all of them back and hopefully all our youth take huge steps in the offseason. Really not sure which way KP will go. Not sure of the rebuilding timeline urgency. Keep the depth or sacrifice it to gain a Bridges type difference maker ?

[Tom White]

I still feel like they need to add another veteran piece to the starting lineup next season besides keeping Tyrese, Pascal, and Myles. That would mean moving some combo of players like Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, and picks. Pretty sure TJ, I Jax, Obi, and Sheppard will be staying put.

The other option is to bring all of them back and hopefully all our youth take huge steps in the offseason. Really not sure which way KP will go. Not sure of the rebuilding timeline urgency. Keep the depth or sacrifice it to gain a Bridges type difference maker ?

I don't think McConnell has ever gotten the kind of respect he deserves (Although I think it is becoming more apparent to people). We talk about players like Haliburton and Pascal, and rightfully so, but McConnell is so incredibly important it is hard to describe. It is difficult to ponder that Carlisle was planning to drastically cut his minutes earlier this season. That is nuts.

I'm hoping Sheppard takes a leap forward. If he does, it might make Nembhard a player that could be part of a trade to improve the team. The other side of that coin is we would need to see improvement from Mathurin as well. In particular, on defense.

[boomershadow]

I'm not a fan of moving young players for vets. The team specifically embraced the youth movement and now we are all watching a young team. But the point of having a young team is giving them the experience to turn into vets

[JMaster5K]

I don't think any of that happens without Ty? Were we a good team pre-Ty, arguably yes. Are we a team that believes we can legit win playoff games vs good teams, if we don't have Ty playing the way he did this season & bringing the drive & confidence,... I don't think so.

As long as we are doing "what ifs", I'll add a couple.

Do you think we would be where we are if Giannis had not missed the entire playoff series and if Lillard had not missed most of the series?

Do you think we would still be playing if the Knicks had their complete roster, including Randle, Bogdanovic, Robinson and now OG available?

My own answers to those are the Bucks would have won that series with a healthy Giannis. I know we won the regular season match-up with them, but the playoffs are a different animal.

With the Knicks? I'm not sure, but I think those missing players could have swung one of the closer games in their favor.

At this point, we just have to hope the Pacers are able to finally bring the ferocity and aggression they play with at home to a road game.

Hey Tom. Not playing ‘what if’s’ at all. Those are questions that I ask myself when thinking of Ty’s overall value to the team. (Specifically when considering whether Ty is worth a max?) I recognise that others may feel differently, so I ask the question to have a conversation. Thank you for your thoughts.

In answer to your questions, no, I don’t think the Bucks win with Giannis. In fact, so much of the Bucks offense runs through him, or is set up to free him, that there are a few analysts, who I agree with, that suggested that the Bucks as a team are easier to defend with him on the floor. Without Giannis, we got to see Middleton, Lillian’s, Portis in a more balanced setting, making it more difficult on the Pacers.

On the other end, strangely enough Spicy has generally played well against Giannis. He historically has not played so well vs Tatum.

So no, I don’t think we lose to the Bucks with Giannis.

The Knicks, on the other hand, yeah. They are a tough, well built team that has bought into playing for each other. Hartenstein had done an exceptional job playing the post offensively, and defending the rim. He’s given them enough that they can still play with the best teams, but he’s not Randle on offense, nor Mitch on Defense. If the Knicks are fully healthy, and Thibs plays his bench. I think we could win a couple of games, but the Knicks take the series.

Which, as I write this could still happen. Lol

I really hope that tonight, both teams bring the aggression & comittment to win. If that happens, it’s going to be a great game. If we, specifically, don’t, with NY at home, feel like it could be ugly.

[Tom White]

In answer to your questions, no, I don’t think the Bucks win with Giannis. In fact, so much of the Bucks offense runs through him, or is set up to free him, that there are a few analysts, who I agree with, that suggested that the Bucks as a team are easier to defend with him on the floor. Without Giannis, we got to see Middleton, Lillian’s, Portis in a more balanced setting, making it more difficult on the Pacers.

Crud! I just realized I left out an important and obvious factor for the Bucks.

The coaching change.

I have no idea what they were thinking. Does it seem like something must have happened off the court? Were players showing discontentment with Bud? Were there rumblings that players would ask to be traded or not re-sign if he returned as coach? Did he get caught peeing in the owner's corn flakes?

That change, and the timing of it, didn't make sense to me.

[JMaster5K]

Crud! I just realized I left out an important and obvious factor for the Bucks.

The coaching change.

I have no idea what they were thinking. Does it seem like something must have happened off the court? Were players showing discontentment with Bud? Were there rumblings that players would ask to be traded or not re-sign if he returned as coach? Did he get caught peeing in the owner's corn flakes?

That change, and the timing of it, didn't make sense to me.

Short answer is ‘yes’. There were rumbling & reports that he lost the locker room. Pat Bev said on a post firing pod cast that at one point, coach was in the huddle drawing up an inbound play & Giannis with PBev said, ‘naw, we ain’t gonna run that’, the team ran the player’s play, not the coach’s.

Probably still find that pod on YouTube?

[Tom White]

PBev said, ‘naw, we ain’t gonna run that’, the team ran the player’s play, not the coach’s.

.

Where Beverley is concerned, it might be best to enact the George Costanza rule. Do the opposite of his inclination.

If I were the coach, I'd be open to listening to Giannis, or Middleton, or Lillard, but never to Beverley. Man, I have a real dislike for that guy.

[basketballwacko2]

I haven't read all these posts but what about Gordon Hayward as a Free Agent? Playing him in the Doug role light minutes say 20 per night off the bench.

[Pacers Forever]

I'm not a fan of moving young players for vets. The team specifically embraced the youth movement and now we are all watching a young team. But the point of having a young team is giving them the experience to turn into vets

Now that they’re going to the EC Finals it will be harder for the front office to make drastic changes. This young team still cooking.

[Wizop]

Now that they’re going to the EC Finals it will be harder for the front office to make drastic changes. This young team still cooking.

And Benn will up the rotation from 9 to 10.

[Pacers Forever]

Read on Twitter

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[Pacers Forever]

Read on Twitter

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Click on the above Pacer chart and it shows whole team cap calculation since Tyrese is 3rd team all NBA.

[JMaster5K]

Anyone else suffering from 'Mock Draft Meltdown'?.... Keep seeing the same analyst/broadcaster/writers,... revising their mocks what seems like every few minutes,... with draftees going from 21, to 3, to 7 all in the course of an hour, based on some secret intel from KGB agents that make side money scouting the NBA draft for 'select' NBA front offices,.... ???

(ok,.. that was sarcasm and hyperbole,..... but still,.. need to get a new bottle of aspirin for this one......) =/

[Wizop]

Anyone else suffering from 'Mock Draft Meltdown'?

not this year. I may have over studied the Colts draft but I'm easily ignoring who the Pacers might get in the second round.

[Tom White]

Anyone else suffering from 'Mock Draft Meltdown'?.... Keep seeing the same analyst/broadcaster/writers,... revising their mocks what seems like every few minutes,... with draftees going from 21, to 3, to 7 all in the course of an hour, based on some secret intel from KGB agents that make side money scouting the NBA draft for 'select' NBA front offices,.... ???

It is called "generating clicks".

Let's face it. If one of these "experts" creates one mock draft, and doesn't make changes to it, no one is going to visit his website for a second time. Can't sell ads and make money that way, so they all play the game of players rising or falling based on nothing but the writer's need for more clicks. These guys aren't super-insiders getting secret info from teams or players.

To put it simply......it is a scam.

[JMaster5K]

I'm also getting the feeling that the mockers are so lost this year,... they are just hoping that when the draft happens, they can pull one, just one,.. of there 47 mock drafts out and go, 'See! I got number 1 right!',..... 8/

[Pacers Forever]

With the announcement on RealGM of Anunoby most likely declining his player option and not definite on joining the Knicks

Could the Pacers afford him at $20mil plus ?
Can he be swayed by Tyrese and Pascal to join ?
Would a player be dealt for draft picks to afford?
Would you still want him with his injury history?
Is a cheaper Nesmith a better option?
Would Nesmith be 2nd team or SG ?


I think he would be a nice addition giving them
Added defense
Added front line height
Added shooter

I also believe his injury probability would lessen since Carlisle is very much into player rotation and rest.

Anyone else have the answers or opinions ?