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Wizop wrote:

Topofthekey wrote:If the goal is to win as many games as possible right now, then the best lineup do that is probably Turner Nesmith Brown Hield Haliburton

Can't disagree but we've closed with that lineup unsuccessfully.

True. That awful pass by Haliburton was uncharacteristic though. They should be 4-2 right now

Tom White wrote:

Wizop wrote:Goga had five blocks last night

The Revenge of Goga!

Wild! They were a +27 in his 26 minutes of play. Insane.

Interesting question debated on the Game Theory podcast. Can this roster be coached up to an acceptable defensive team?
The progress of Mathurin is key to this. No question he is bad now but, physical skills are there.

8305 wrote:Interesting question debated on the Game Theory podcast. Can this roster be coached up to an acceptable defensive team?
The progress of Mathurin is key to this. No question he is bad now but, physical skills are there.

OBI too. I listened to the podcast. I'm a little less pessimistic than they were because both have improved.

Wizop wrote:

8305 wrote:Interesting question debated on the Game Theory podcast. Can this roster be coached up to an acceptable defensive team?
The progress of Mathurin is key to this. No question he is bad now but, physical skills are there.

OBI too. I listened to the podcast. I'm a little less pessimistic than they were because both have improved.

I've got more hope for Ben. Thinking back early Anthony Edwards. I think he struggled defensively and now is good. Don't know that Ben is that level of athlete but, certainly a good enough athlete to defend at a high level. Less optimistic about Obi. He played 3 years for a coach known for defense and was older when he came into the league. Hope you are right.

8305 wrote:Less optimistic about Obi. He played 3 years for a coach known for defense and was older when he came into the league.

I think he's getting peer pressure and not just coaching lectures.

8305 wrote:

Wizop wrote:

8305 wrote:Interesting question debated on the Game Theory podcast. Can this roster be coached up to an acceptable defensive team?
The progress of Mathurin is key to this. No question he is bad now but, physical skills are there.

OBI too. I listened to the podcast. I'm a little less pessimistic than they were because both have improved.

I've got more hope for Ben. Thinking back early Anthony Edwards. I think he struggled defensively and now is good. Don't know that Ben is that level of athlete but, certainly a good enough athlete to defend at a high level. Less optimistic about Obi. He played 3 years for a coach known for defense and was older when he came into the league. Hope you are right.

I heard a number of coaches / analysts / players say, and number of times, that learning & executing defense just takes more time than offense. I really appreciate the focus of the conversation on Game Theory (Thank you 8305 for the heads up on the podcast.) not 'are they good' or 'can they be good', but 'do they have the potential to be good enough'. At this point, as a team, I think it's too early to tell. The early impression doesn't look as favorable as I could hope.

Ben does seem to have considerable potential as a defender. Even before the pre-season, in the summer, he said that his defense isn't where it needs to be. He wants to be a complete 2 way player. I have to believe that he is showing the 'growing pains' of going from a player that was the team, into a team player. That is showing up on both ends of the court. Physically, he can be a good defender. He lack skill in some of the defensive fundamentals. He lacks experience. I gotta believe his growth defensively is going to be more mental. Figuring out what good defense really is & working with and in the team scheme?

I don't think Ob1 has as much potential as Ben defensively. CC noted in one of her pieces that his lateral quickness just wasn't there. That he was game, but there were somethings he just couldn't do. That's the primary reason I can see him as a second unit 4/5. defensively, he does a much better job switching from the 5 behind a screen, than as a 4 across a screen. (I hope that makes sense?)

There observation about Myles made a lot of sense. He does seem to need more help now from the wings & less able to adjust on switches. That makes the defense from the wings all that much more important?

This will be a fun year. I won't be too worried about defensive execution this early in year two, but the playoffs & next year should show us the defensive potential of the team and if it could ever be 'good enough'.

I'm not sure where to put this, but the Ringer has a Halliburton article well worth reading.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/13/23958254/tyrese-haliburton-indiana-pacers

That was a very satisfying read

Pacers before Haliburton, pain. Pacers after Haliburton, joy

I can see Stix getting backup minutes at the 4 and the 5. Toppin could still start. Stix would come in for either Toppin or Turner at six minutes.

That pushes Nesmith back to 3 where someone would lose minutes.

Wizop wrote:I can see Stix getting backup minutes at the 4 and the 5. Toppin could still start. Stix would come in for either Toppin or Turner at six minutes.

That pushes Nesmith back to 3 where someone would lose minutes.

After watching this lat 6er game I wonder if our best lineup isn’t
Hali, Brown, Nesmith, Toppin, Turner
Once again TJ is just demanding minutes with his play. Mathurin still needs development minutes. Assuming Smith isn’t out long I like the idea of getting him getting some minutes at the 4. Wonder if the odd man out could Nembhard?

8305 wrote:Once again TJ is just demanding minutes with his play.

Seems Carlisle may have spoken a bit too soon. And not wisely.

I've written this so many times. coaches say players like defined rotations, but I think substituting by the clock gives away the coach's best weapon which is pine time. I also strongly believe in making the other team match to your lineup and tempo rather than reacting to the opponent's choices. TJ pushes the pace. Nembhard defends players too big for TJ to handle. as my mother often said, there's a time and a place for everything.

Wizop wrote:I'm not sure where to put this, but the Ringer has a Halliburton article well worth reading.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/13/23958254/tyrese-haliburton-indiana-pacers

Just got a chance to read that article. Very well done piece.

Toppin and Mathurin came off the bench in Atlanta.

Wizop wrote:Toppin and Mathurin came off the bench in Atlanta.

I expect they will stick with this for a while.

Jackson made a noticeable impact with his rebounding and shot blocking in the Hawks game

I wonder if starting Jackson at the 4 is workable

Wizop wrote:Toppin and Mathurin came off the bench in Atlanta.

Has Carlisle finally figured it out? Doubt it, but still nice to see the change.

Nesmith's out tonight so new starting five has Obi and Buddy.

Just watched CC piece on the in game tournament review. (Well worth it if you are subscriber! If you aren't, this has easily been the best money I've ever spent on BB coverage. Learn something new in every piece.) She mentioned almost in passing, that, due to matchups, with Turner out in the 4th, when Stix had to come out, Coach substituted Ob1 for Stix at the 5. (Partially because I-Jax was playing so well on the perimeter.) I missed that in game. but on review, the short time this experiment was on the floor, it looked like it might have some promise?

It also looks like, at least in certain matchups, that the idea of I-Jax playing 4 isn't completely dead?

Thoughts?......