Buddy Hield Trade Rumors, Thoughts, Analysis?

[Scoot McGroot]

Go and win! I think Haliburton can make all 3 of OG, Trent, and Precious look splendid. I imagine OG would stay. Precious is an FRA, and GTJ just wants a fair offer. Plus I think you could use the size and defensive upgrade.

Yeah, we’re not dealing Walker, Sheppard, Buddy, AND McConnell (holy cow, and 2 1sts?) for OG. Would rather keep Buddy than swap him for Trent. And no need for Achiuwa with Isaiah Jackson here. You have Indy paying full price for both OG AND Siakam, but only getting OG, somehow.

We have the cap space to salary match OG with McConnell and Nwora. I’d deal 3 1sts with that package, so long as 2 of the 1sts are our 2024 1sts we own. Top 5 protect the 2026 1st. If that type of deal doesn’t intrigue you, if we’re confident in Sheppard stepping up, we might be able to do Buddy, Nembhard, and our worst 2024 1st for OG. If neither works, it’s probably just not in the cards?

I think you're valuing potential over contributions. If you have a star you can't simply wait for talent to develop around them. Trying to replicate OKC may not have the same outcome. OG and Trent will look great alongside a guard like Haliburton. And Precious would have it easy. Haliburton needs play finishers around him. OG and Precious would massively improve your defense.

You'd be trading an SG unlikely to return, a pg without a role, two rookies that don't currently play, and two picks. Not bad for 3 guys that can play around Haliburton now. Good players want to play with stars. I bet you'd could keep all 3.

all while downgrading at the SG position and getting Achiuwa to sit DEEP on the bench and compete with Isaiah Jackson for 3rd center minutes. I’m sure we COULD keep all 3. We wouldn’t want to, though. OG is the prize. The rest isn’t upgrades, for sure.

It’s wild you pitch dealing guys that are contributing now (Buddy and that PG you say doesn’t have a role) in an attempt to compete now, but give us downgrades on the court in return. Maybe just keep them all out of it?

Don't overvalue your assets. Toronto would be elite with Haliburton instead of Schroeder.

Well, maybe? And Indy would be elite if they kept everything they had a magically swapped Bruce Browm for OG Anunoby. We don’t live in a dream world.

Why rush to deal all the assets we have for just OG? Why just we vastly overpay and just send Siakam to Atlanta for more assets to go to Toronto? All to rush for Haliburton before he hits free agency in 6 offseasons? Might a vast overpay as you’re demanding here actually push Indy to constantly playing catch up, like Cleveland was in the first Lebron era where they overpaid and overpaid to rush their window, but ended up pushing their star away?

If you want to pitch pipe dreams of returns, you should probably just stay on the Toronto forum. Don’t come to another forum and try and gaslight the people you want to rob into being excited to be stolen from.

[Spates]

Yeah, we’re not dealing Walker, Sheppard, Buddy, AND McConnell (holy cow, and 2 1sts?) for OG. Would rather keep Buddy than swap him for Trent. And no need for Achiuwa with Isaiah Jackson here. You have Indy paying full price for both OG AND Siakam, but only getting OG, somehow.

We have the cap space to salary match OG with McConnell and Nwora. I’d deal 3 1sts with that package, so long as 2 of the 1sts are our 2024 1sts we own. Top 5 protect the 2026 1st. If that type of deal doesn’t intrigue you, if we’re confident in Sheppard stepping up, we might be able to do Buddy, Nembhard, and our worst 2024 1st for OG. If neither works, it’s probably just not in the cards?

I think you're valuing potential over contributions. If you have a star you can't simply wait for talent to develop around them. Trying to replicate OKC may not have the same outcome. OG and Trent will look great alongside a guard like Haliburton. And Precious would have it easy. Haliburton needs play finishers around him. OG and Precious would massively improve your defense.

You'd be trading an SG unlikely to return, a pg without a role, two rookies that don't currently play, and two picks. Not bad for 3 guys that can play around Haliburton now. Good players want to play with stars. I bet you'd could keep all 3.

all while downgrading at the SG position and getting Achiuwa to sit DEEP on the bench and compete with Isaiah Jackson for 3rd center minutes. I’m sure we COULD keep all 3. We wouldn’t want to, though. OG is the prize. The rest isn’t upgrades, for sure.

It’s wild you pitch dealing guys that are contributing now (Buddy and that PG you say doesn’t have a role) in an attempt to compete now, but give us downgrades on the court in return. Maybe just keep them all out of it?

Don't overvalue your assets. Toronto would be elite with Haliburton instead of Schroeder.

Well, maybe? And Indy would be elite if they kept everything they had a magically swapped Bruce Browm for OG Anunoby. We don’t live in a dream world.

Why rush to deal all the assets we have for just OG? Why just we vastly overpay and just send Siakam to Atlanta for more assets to go to Toronto? All to rush for Haliburton before he hits free agency in 6 offseasons? Might a vast overpay as you’re demanding here actually push Indy to constantly playing catch up, like Cleveland was in the first Lebron era where they overpaid and overpaid to rush their window, but ended up pushing their star away?

If you want to pitch pipe dreams of returns, you should probably just stay on the Toronto forum. Don’t come to another forum and try and gaslight the people you want to rob into being excited to be stolen from.

I don't like your premises.

I'm not trying to swindle you. I think this a good trade for Indiana. I think the haze of your current success and the Raptors sludge make the fit hard to imagine.

I just looked at Toppin and Smith's numbers.
They're hyper efficient and most of their baskets are assisted. That's Haliburton. He can do that for Precious. Also, Precious was a phenomenal defender two seasons ago. I'd expect a return to for somewhere new. OG is 3&D you sorely need. Trent is an SG who needs good guard play. You have that in Tyrese and Nembhard.

You presume your team is better than it actually is. We've seen numerous teams in the past few years fizzle and flatten. Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Utah, maybe the Cavs too. You've got a small sample. Haliburton is on a heater. Things could easily cool down and terrible defensive teams don't go far. Maybe your trajectory is Sacramento.

Toronto's lack of playmaking makes each player look worse. Haliburton gets teammates paid. I genuinely think those three are strong additions ALONGSIDE Haliburton.

[Malapropism]

That is a wild/awful deal for everyone not named Toronto lmao.

[Malapropism]

Go and win! I think Haliburton can make all 3 of OG, Trent, and Precious look splendid. I imagine OG would stay. Precious is an FRA, and GTJ just wants a fair offer. Plus I think you could use the size and defensive upgrade.

I'm bookmarking this for when OG/Pascal eventually get traded.

In no world are you getting the equivalent of 8 first rounders - some unprotected, for just those two. That is absolutely wild lmao.

[Spates]

Go and win! I think Haliburton can make all 3 of OG, Trent, and Precious look splendid. I imagine OG would stay. Precious is an FRA, and GTJ just wants a fair offer. Plus I think you could use the size and defensive upgrade.

I'm bookmarking this for when OG/Pascal eventually get traded.

In no world are you getting the equivalent of 8 first rounders - some unprotected, for just those two. That is absolutely wild lmao.

Lmao. I wasn't thinking of it that way. It is a little ridiculous. But it's a place to start.

Drop it to one future 1st from each team and it's probably quite fair. Seems like a lot of youth to give up. But youth is something Toronto needs now and if Miami and Indiana give up a pick from a draft 3/4 years down the line, they get what they need now while keeping picks in upcoming drafts.

[Tom White]

If you want to pitch pipe dreams of returns, you should probably just stay on the Toronto forum. Don’t come to another forum and try and gaslight the people you want to rob into being excited to be stolen from.

I bet if we just hold out a bit longer, he'll throw in a big, beautiful bridge, some ocean front property in Utah and a bag of magic beans.

[Scoot McGroot]

Go and win! I think Haliburton can make all 3 of OG, Trent, and Precious look splendid. I imagine OG would stay. Precious is an FRA, and GTJ just wants a fair offer. Plus I think you could use the size and defensive upgrade.

I'm bookmarking this for when OG/Pascal eventually get traded.

In no world are you getting the equivalent of 8 first rounders - some unprotected, for just those two. That is absolutely wild lmao.

Lmao. I wasn't thinking of it that way. It is a little ridiculous. But it's a place to start.

Drop it to one future 1st from each team and it's probably quite fair. Seems like a lot of youth to give up. But youth is something Toronto needs now and if Miami and Indiana give up a pick from a draft 3/4 years down the line, they get what they need now while keeping picks in upcoming drafts.

Hey, I probably should have reached out first, as this post points out. Generally, around the forums on realgm, since we aren’t the actual GM’s, we don’t try and “negotiate” real deals on here. We usually just try and skip to what a realistic deal would be, since we wouldn’t get to really “keep what we kill”. So, these big ideal trades for our team usually don’t fit in. We usually just skip right to what the final deal would be. So the asking for a ton of picks and youth usually just is viewed as trolling, rather than genuine discussion.

But realistically, I think if OG and Siakam were to return what you think they should here, Toronto should have traded them in the offseason, or last year sometime. The risk that each player can enter unrestricted free agency is dangerous. The rules that would limit OG to an extension he would never accept as the “extend and trade rules” also means that any team trading for him is guaranteed to see him enter unrestricted free agency. Even if those teams think they could keep them, they’re going to have to overpay as any team can legally sign them. These things generally lower their values in trade.

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't like your premises.

I'm not trying to swindle you. I think this a good trade for Indiana. I think the haze of your current success and the Raptors sludge make the fit hard to imagine.

I just looked at Toppin and Smith's numbers.
They're hyper efficient and most of their baskets are assisted. That's Haliburton. He can do that for Precious. Also, Precious was a phenomenal defender two seasons ago. I'd expect a return to for somewhere new. OG is 3&D you sorely need. Trent is an SG who needs good guard play. You have that in Tyrese and Nembhard.

You presume your team is better than it actually is. We've seen numerous teams in the past few years fizzle and flatten. Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Utah, maybe the Cavs too. You've got a small sample. Haliburton is on a heater. Things could easily cool down and terrible defensive teams don't go far. Maybe your trajectory is Sacramento.

Toronto's lack of playmaking makes each player look worse. Haliburton gets teammates paid. I genuinely think those three are strong additions ALONGSIDE Haliburton.

To be clear, I don’t presume that Indy is better than they are. I’m stating that they’re much earlier on their developmental path than you think. Haliburton starts his 5 year extension (with no options), next year. We don’t need to pay a TON of assets for a guy that could walk in a couple months, or we have to vastly overpay to keep. If he walks, or were capped out with just Haliburton and OG, without Mathurin, Walker and picks, how are we going to build a team around those two in the next 4 years before we have to consider trading Haliburton?

We can trade for keepers. We just need to make sure it’s sustainable. Or else we’ll push Haliburton out just like Cleveland pushed Lebron out the first time.

[Wizop]

there are certainly trades with Toronto that would make the Pacers better in 2023-24, but they carry a huge risk that we'd be worse in 2024-25. I don't think it's fair to say that Pacer fans think the team is better than it is. we're not rejecting trades like this because we think we're elite already. we're rejecting one year rentals because we know we're still building.

[Pacers Forever]

there are certainly trades with Toronto that would make the Pacers better in 2023-24, but they carry a huge risk that we'd be worse in 2024-25. I don't think it's fair to say that Pacer fans think the team is better than it is. we're not rejecting trades like this because we think we're elite already. we're rejecting one year rentals because we know we're still building.

One year rentals is spot on so that’s why I wouldn’t deal with Toronto. I believe this front office is still more interested in staying the course and slowly building for a longer future playoff run rather than a quick temporary attempt to get a title and fade back into mediocrity.

[JMaster5K]

Some kind of 3-way where the Pacers get Jerami Grant, Team C gets Hield, and Portland gets some filler salary from Team C, an asset from Team C, and maybe an asset from the Pacers (like Jackson?)

I mean, I’m so hard up for a “big forward that can defend” that I’d give up one of our firsts in this draft. I’m also not insanely hot on this 2024 draft. I don’t think his contract is terrible, and it runs through his age 33 season, and he’s not quite yet 30, so he should age ok. He’s also locked in for 3-4 more years after this one.

RealGM has an article about the Pacers looking for a big forward that can defend!

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273911/Pacers-On-Market-For-Big-Wing

Hmmm,.. think I've heard this somewhere before?! wow! who woulda guessed that ?......

(@Scoot McGroot, @Jowglenn, @'Topofthekey, @Tom White, @Wizop, @Helsbyte, @Dude-niagara)

Just cause we've been talking about it for a couple of months now,..... =]

[Tom White]

Just cause we've been talking about it for a couple of months now,..... =]

A couple months? Oh, that's right, you're still relatively new here. More like talking about it for years.

[Tom White]

We've seen numerous teams in the past few years fizzle and flatten. Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Utah, maybe the Cavs too.

Feel free to add Toronto to that list.

[Spates]

We've seen numerous teams in the past few years fizzle and flatten. Phoenix, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Utah, maybe the Cavs too.

Feel free to add Toronto to that list.

Nice one. It wasn't an insult, just a potentiality.

Toronto is the 2nd winningest team of the past decade. Won a recent championship too

[Tom White]

Nice one. It wasn't an insult, just a potentiality.

Toronto is the 2nd winningest team of the past decade. Won a recent championship too

As they say in the financial markets "past results are not an indicator of future performance".

I'd say it still holds true. Else why are you wanting to trade away some of their best players? I'd say fizzle and flatten is a good description of where they now are.

[Spates]

Nice one. It wasn't an insult, just a potentiality.

Toronto is the 2nd winningest team of the past decade. Won a recent championship too

As they say in the financial markets "past results are not an indicator of future performance".

I'd say it still holds true. Else why are you wanting to trade away some of their best players? I'd say fizzle and flatten is a good description of where they now are.

Well yeah, of course. They're in immediate need of a rebuild and they have been for the past three seasons, especially if you consider skill sets and not just the W/L record.

Also, PS and OG are pending free agents that Toronto can't afford to lose for nothing. The era is over.

Their ability is another matter. This is usually a controversial statement but all players are role players. Effective offense requires specific functioning in certain facets to generate good process. It requires strong assessment of ability and leadership to put players and therefore a team in the best situation. Toronto has had horrendous process the past three seasons. Their basketball has been near unwatchable. Not because the players aren't talented but because terrible assemblage and utilization of their abilities. There was 0 effective and resilient half court initiation. Fred cannot pressure the rim and no one else can handle the ball well enough. That's the beginning and end of all their troubles.

With the brilliance of a guard like Haliburton much of deficiencies of an OG become less apparent and haunting because Haliburton removes the pressure to perform in areas of weakness. And when you can limit weaknesses, strengths become much more apparent.

When locked-in OG is a game changing defender, completely stifling. He's become a reliable and consistent three point shooter. And he doesn't ever get recognition for making crisp extra passes when he is aware of the action around him. Darko has also had him attacking closeouts very aggressively of late. It's been a nice change.

Edit:

He got to go unfortunately because the team needs an upgrade skill. Scottie needs guys that can shoot, pass, and dribble. Ideally two SGs, one effective playing off catches with PG instincts, and someone more aggressive driving to the rim while not overly selfish

[JMaster5K]

Just cause we've been talking about it for a couple of months now,..... =]

A couple months? Oh, that's right, you're still relatively new here. More like talking about it for years.

LOL - well,. now that you mention it,. that might have the conversation that got me to sign up?... o0 =}

[Scoot McGroot]

Also, PS and OG are pending free agents that Toronto can't afford to lose for nothing.

AGREED! But also, neither can Indiana. Thanks for coming around to what we’ve been saying.


But seriously, Indy cannot afford to pay market value for OG or Siakam and see the risk theater they leave, either. Nor can we afford to have to max out OG just to beat other offers on the market. And not 100% sure we want to max out Siakam as he enters his mid 30’s, especially after paying the full trade cost to acquire him. It essentially leaves Indy with just Haliburton and OG/Siakam making 60-65% of the salary cap, and no picks or youth to fill holes around them. It’s a dangerous spot to be in.

[Spates]

Also, PS and OG are pending free agents that Toronto can't afford to lose for nothing.

AGREED! But also, neither can Indiana. Thanks for coming around to what we’ve been saying.


But seriously, Indy cannot afford to pay market value for OG or Siakam and see the risk theater they leave, either. Nor can we afford to have to max out OG just to beat other offers on the market. And not 100% sure we want to max out Siakam as he enters his mid 30’s, especially after paying the full trade cost to acquire him. It essentially leaves Indy with just Haliburton and OG/Siakam making 60-65% of the salary cap, and no picks or youth to fill holes around them. It’s a dangerous spot to be in.

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135. I don't think the same could said for Pascal, I wouldn't want a trade for him if I were a Pacers fan.

OG's college career was in Indiana and there have been some indications that he'd be interested in returning. Interactions that various Raptors pundits noticed last season. It's just speculation but I have this gut feeling there's legitimacy to it. I'm a random person online, I know, but if OG isn't a Raptor next year I deeply think he'll be a Pacer.

I have minimal interest in Mathurin. He's not the player I'd want dominating the ball on a rebuilding team. I'd be wary of giving him that sort of opportunity. He's a better fit alongside a legitimate starting PG. I'm not aquatinted with Walker but I'd be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for an expiring OG. I think Nembhard adds more value to the Pacers over the next 4 years than he would to a rebuilding team. As a basis, non-contributors would be traded for an impact wing and your developmental pipeline isn't depleted.

[Topofthekey]

Also, PS and OG are pending free agents that Toronto can't afford to lose for nothing.

AGREED! But also, neither can Indiana. Thanks for coming around to what we’ve been saying.


But seriously, Indy cannot afford to pay market value for OG or Siakam and see the risk theater they leave, either. Nor can we afford to have to max out OG just to beat other offers on the market. And not 100% sure we want to max out Siakam as he enters his mid 30’s, especially after paying the full trade cost to acquire him. It essentially leaves Indy with just Haliburton and OG/Siakam making 60-65% of the salary cap, and no picks or youth to fill holes around them. It’s a dangerous spot to be in.

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135

Then just sign him yourself, why are you trying to trade him