2023 Pacers offseason

basketballwacko2 · Post #361 » by **basketballwacko2** » Sat Oct 7, 2023 8:12 pm

If the team wants George Hill or Johnson around why not just sign them as coaches?

Wizop · Post #362 » by **Wizop** » Sat Oct 7, 2023 9:29 pm

pacers33granger wrote:
Tom White wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:I don't really think he's an NBA talent but why not someone like Gabe Yorkl?

Maybe you have watched him more than I have, but I've just never thought he was very good.
No he's not but he's been with the organization so knows the playstyle at least.

I don't think anyone expects to find someone in camp worth dumping one of the 18 already there. But it's not about that.

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If York knows the Pacers and the Pacers know York and it's not about making the 18, what is it about? Making the Ants?

Post #363 » by **pacers33granger** » Sat Oct 7, 2023 9:46 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:
Tom White wrote:
Maybe you have watched him more than I have, but I've just never thought he was very good.
No he's not but he's been with the organization so knows the playstyle at least.

I don't think anyone expects to find someone in camp worth dumping one of the 18 already there. But it's not about that.

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If York knows the Pacers and the Pacers know York and it's not about making the 18, what is it about? Making the Ants?

Competition and learning the playstyle of the new guys who will be playing with him. I'm not a proponent specifically of him, but there's merit to it if we're not using the spots to get looks at guys.

Bottom line is we're wasting a resource.

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Wizop · Post #364 » by **Wizop** » Sat Oct 7, 2023 10:02 pm

pacers33granger wrote:Bottom line is we're wasting a resource.

And my bottom line is we're maximizing the development of our players

Post #365 » by **pacers33granger** » Sat Oct 7, 2023 10:31 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Bottom line is we're wasting a resource.

And my bottom line is we're maximizing the development of our players

Frankly I don't see how. Are you saying that the staff would be unable to manage 2 other guys and current players would lose out on development?

There's also something to be gained from knowing your spot isn't safe. As it stands, unless someone does something heinous, they're guaranteed a spot as there's no one else to take them. Guys like Brown, Wong, and Thsiebwe specifically should feel pressure on them with another guy trying to take their spot.

Pacers Forever · Post #366 » by **Pacers Forever** » Sun Oct 8, 2023 7:25 am

This screams that they’re either not interested in bringing in a talented free agent who’s not familiar with their plays, possibly nobody on the street is more talented in their eyes, or not interested in dealing with G league talent currently. I don’t think money is a factor but who knows.

I’m guessing the FO and coaches are all in on our 18 players (which is the most talented depth they’ve had in forever) and don’t believe anyone would be a better option.

I’m ok with 18, however I would have brought in 2 Mad Ants Elfrid Payton and Jordan Bell just to make an even 20.

Pacers Forever · Post #367 » by **Pacers Forever** » Sun Oct 8, 2023 7:29 am

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=9ViPZrC6T8ng6kcZke0I5g

I can relate to this after having 3 surgeries recently for kidney stone removal. He’s probably out for a week minimum.

JMaster5K · Post #368 » by **JMaster5K** » Sun Oct 8, 2023 10:11 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:If the team wants George Hill or Johnson around why not just sign them as coaches?

They could do. If either is ready to admit that their playing days are over? Both would be really good, like Pargo. Is there a 'roster limit' on coaches?

JMaster5K · Post #369 » by **JMaster5K** » Sun Oct 8, 2023 10:14 am

Could the FO be watching other teams for camp cuts? Have a player or two that they are really interested in & watching how other teams play out?... It would mean we could sign someone without having to waive an existing player,. at least for 3 weeks or so?.... (just thinking out loud,.well,. while typing.)

Post #370 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sun Oct 8, 2023 5:26 pm

Wizop wrote:
pacers33granger wrote:Bottom line is we're wasting a resource.

And my bottom line is we're maximizing the development of our players

What an indictment on the organization if they don’t feel they’re adequately staffed to be able to fully manage training camp.

JMaster5K wrote:Could the FO be watching other teams for camp cuts? Have a player or two that they are really interested in & watching how other teams play out?... It would mean we could sign someone without having to waive an existing player,. at least for 3 weeks or so?.... (just thinking out loud,.well,. while typing.)

Training camp signings are generally non-guaranteed, so it’d be pretty easy to waive one to claim someone else.

Wizop · Post #371 » by **Wizop** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:20 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #372 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:30 pm

And with those decisions, that’s the last contractual decisions until 6/21/2024 when TJ McConnell would fully guarantee for the 2024/25 season if he doesn’t clear waivers by then. And a whole bunch of options and QO decisions on 6/29/24.

Post #373 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:21 am

Sounds like Mojave King and his agent couldn’t find him an overseas contract that fit, so he’ll be playing for the Mad Ants in the GLeague.

Which also makes me wonder, why on earth wasn’t he in camp if he had nowhere else to be?

Wizop · Post #374 » by **Wizop** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:08 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:Which also makes me wonder, why on earth wasn’t he in camp if he had nowhere else to be?

I know I'm beating a dead horse and you guys don't agree with me, but I believe every minute spent coaching someone who will not be on the 18 man roster is a minute away from coaching someone who will be on it. I'll grant that King might be the one exception if they wanted him to compete with Wong for the two-way contract. we've got a lot of position battles that need to be fought and I have no problem with the decision to prioritize competition within the roster for rotation spots over competition from outsiders hoping for the bottom spots.

Post #375 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:40 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:Which also makes me wonder, why on earth wasn’t he in camp if he had nowhere else to be?

I know I'm beating a dead horse and you guys don't agree with me, but I believe every minute spent coaching someone who will not be on the 18 man roster is a minute away from coaching someone who will be on it. I'll grant that King might be the one exception if they wanted him to compete with Wong for the two-way contract. we've got a lot of position battles that need to be fought and I have no problem with the decision to prioritize competition within the roster for rotation spots over competition from outsiders hoping for the bottom spots.

So you’re saying it’s better if the developmental guard we drafted is ignored and just goes an extra month with no development of any kind?

I get your point of time. But if the team is so short staffed that we can’t get time with all the players in camp that we’d sacrifice the 3 open roster spots to get a look at someone, then that’s awful damning of the organization. Hire the staff you need. NY has churned through 6 guys on 2 ways this offseason. They’re looking at guys. We think we just nailed our 3 spots no matter what? There’s nothing anyone could have possibly shown to make us second guess that?

Wizop · Post #376 » by **Wizop** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:48 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:I get your point of time. But if the team is so short staffed

we've been around this question before. I don't see it as short staff as much as priorities. the Ants are going to be practicing and playing in Gainbridge for the next two years so there will be plenty of time to evaluate the wannabees. I also see it as a reflection of the seriousness of this year's goal to make the playoffs.

Post #377 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:36 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I get your point of time. But if the team is so short staffed

we've been around this question before. I don't see it as short staff as much as priorities. the Ants are going to be practicing and playing in Gainbridge for the next two years so there will be plenty of time to evaluate the wannabees. I also see it as a reflection of the seriousness of this year's goal to make the playoffs.

Yup. And I see it as laziness, or an unwillingness to accept that they might have been wrong on scouting. We’ve seen so many teams already flip two way roster spots because they felt they may have a different need or a better fit. But we must’ve absolutely nailed our offseason. Couldn’t even consider finding any better players or better fits. Nope. There’s no better players or fits out there.

Sure, we could also see these guys up close at practices, but we can’t see them practice against the nba players. And of the coaches don’t have enough time to see 1-3 more players in camp, when are they going to find the time to go to a completely different teams practices, which cannot overlap in the same space or the same time as the NBA team?

As a fan, it just bugs me. It bugs me that they want to keep costs low. As a fan, I gain nothing from these types of actions. And unless absolutely no unsigned player right now ever makes the nba, and all 3 of our 2 way guys make it to the nba, I’ll feel like their laziness caused them to miss out on a chance at an nba player, simply because they weren’t willing to hire the staff to fill the available roster spots.

Post #378 » by **pacers33granger** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:58 pm

The last 2 guys don't even need to have staff dedicate time to them. They can just be strictly camp bodies. It's not like Rick will deviate time given to the current 18.

Also, I know we signed him to a 2 way, but Wong kinda sucks. I'd be shocked if there wasn't someone else worthy of the spot though maybe the staff sees something in him he hasn't shown yet. I'm not sold he's more than an ok G league guy.

But yeah the fact that King didn't get an overseas deal and he's a guy the team saw enough to use a pick on him is just puzzling.

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Wizop · Post #379 » by **Wizop** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:11 pm

I do think we should have held onto pick 40. There were interesting names on the board there.

Wong did look good against IU. He seems to be struggling to be more of of 1 than a small 2.

My bottom line remains that I believe the team believes it has a solid rotation.

Post #380 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:15 pm

pacers33granger wrote:The last 2 guys don't even need to have staff dedicate time to them. They can just be strictly camp bodies. It's not like Rick will deviate time given to the current 18.

Also, I know we signed him to a 2 way, but Wong kinda sucks. I'd be shocked if there wasn't someone else worthy of the spot though maybe the staff sees something in him he hasn't shown yet. I'm not sold he's more than an ok G league guy.

But yeah the fact that King didn't get an overseas deal and he's a guy the team saw enough to use a pick on him is just puzzling.

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He is 100% the type of young, small, scoring guard that Buchanan and Pritchard love to take a flyer on. Think McConnell, Sykes, York, Washington, Aaron Holiday, Collison, Mitrou-Long, etc.