Buddy Hield Trade Rumors, Thoughts, Analysis?

[Scoot McGroot]

Also, PS and OG are pending free agents that Toronto can't afford to lose for nothing.

AGREED! But also, neither can Indiana. Thanks for coming around to what we’ve been saying.


But seriously, Indy cannot afford to pay market value for OG or Siakam and see the risk theater they leave, either. Nor can we afford to have to max out OG just to beat other offers on the market. And not 100% sure we want to max out Siakam as he enters his mid 30’s, especially after paying the full trade cost to acquire him. It essentially leaves Indy with just Haliburton and OG/Siakam making 60-65% of the salary cap, and no picks or youth to fill holes around them. It’s a dangerous spot to be in.

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135. I don't think the same could said for Pascal, I wouldn't want a trade for him if I were a Pacers fan.

OG's college career was in Indiana and there have been some indications that he'd be interested in returning. Interactions that various Raptors pundits noticed last season. It's just speculation but I have this gut feeling there's legitimacy to it. I'm a random person online, I know, but if OG isn't a Raptor next year I deeply think he'll be a Pacer.

I have minimal interest in Mathurin. He's not the player I'd want dominating the ball on a rebuilding team. I'd be wary of giving him that sort of opportunity. He's a better fit alongside a legitimate starting PG. I'm not aquatinted with Walker but I'd be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for an expiring OG. I think Nembhard adds more value to the Pacers over the next 4 years than he would to a rebuilding team. As a basis, non-contributors would be traded for an impact wing and your developmental pipeline isn't depleted.

See, we don’t know that he won’t leave. We just say “he played at IU, and he’d fit there roster wise, why would he leave?” But we forget that Victor Oladipo played at IU, was given the keys to the team, and even before his injury, was asking teams to trade for him and that he was coming to play with them. He wasn’t saying “this is my city”, he was saying “this is my s***”.

I think a lot of Raptors fans are seeing the inherent risks of losing a guy like OG for nothing, recognize that pending unrestricted free agency is a risk, and then ignoring all those things in hopes that OG’s college market would pay full price in trade and ignore all those risks as well. And yet Indiana is historically cautious and values team control over almost anything else.


But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

[JMaster5K]

But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

There are a number of teams that IMO would value OG as a max player. I'm just not sure he's a max player for the Pacers. If he can get it, go for it. I don't think the Pacers, as they sit right now, would view OG as the missing piece that could make them a perennial contender, or a max player.

We still have 3/4 of a season to go, that could all change, but right now, it just doesn't feel right.

[Pacers_Freak]

But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

There are a number of teams that IMO would value OG as a max player. I'm just not sure he's a max player for the Pacers. If he can get it, go for it. I don't think the Pacers, as they sit right now, would view OG as the missing piece that could make them a perennial contender, or a max player.

We still have 3/4 of a season to go, that could all change, but right now, it just doesn't feel right.

I 100% agree. Pascal and OG are both great players that would help the Pacers. But, I'm not sure the assets, gamble, and cap space required are good fits for the Pacers. Pascal doesn't really fit the timeline and while OG is a great player and would make us better... he's not the missing piece. This team is currently ahead of schedule but there is a lot of season left. Now is not the time to push in our chips. I'm in favor of holding our assets until there is a true difference maker (for us) available whether that is via free agency or trade. Neither of the Toronto players make us a contender and it hamstrings us in going to get a guy that will.

[JMaster5K]

But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

There are a number of teams that IMO would value OG as a max player. I'm just not sure he's a max player for the Pacers. If he can get it, go for it. I don't think the Pacers, as they sit right now, would view OG as the missing piece that could make them a perennial contender, or a max player.

We still have 3/4 of a season to go, that could all change, but right now, it just doesn't feel right.

I 100% agree. Pascal and OG are both great players that would help the Pacers. But, I'm not sure the assets, gamble, and cap space required are good fits for the Pacers. Pascal doesn't really fit the timeline and while OG is a great player and would make us better... he's not the missing piece. This team is currently ahead of schedule but there is a lot of season left. Now is not the time to push in our chips. I'm in favor of holding our assets until there is a true difference maker (for us) available whether that is via free agency or trade. Neither of the Toronto players make us a contender and it hamstrings us in going to get a guy that will.

Agree completely. I do love the fit with OG. But, I don't think he becomes a player that can carry the Pacers, when others are having an off night, to a win. If you already have a couple of players that can be difference makers, then OG can bring the versatility and be that third or fourth person to make you a real contender night in & night out. I would love to be wrong, but I just don't see it right now, for our team?

If he was that difference maker, then he would be showing it on the Raptors (the opportunity is already there.) & he wouldn't be headed to potentially UFA.

[Spates]

AGREED! But also, neither can Indiana. Thanks for coming around to what we’ve been saying.


But seriously, Indy cannot afford to pay market value for OG or Siakam and see the risk theater they leave, either. Nor can we afford to have to max out OG just to beat other offers on the market. And not 100% sure we want to max out Siakam as he enters his mid 30’s, especially after paying the full trade cost to acquire him. It essentially leaves Indy with just Haliburton and OG/Siakam making 60-65% of the salary cap, and no picks or youth to fill holes around them. It’s a dangerous spot to be in.

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135. I don't think the same could said for Pascal, I wouldn't want a trade for him if I were a Pacers fan.

OG's college career was in Indiana and there have been some indications that he'd be interested in returning. Interactions that various Raptors pundits noticed last season. It's just speculation but I have this gut feeling there's legitimacy to it. I'm a random person online, I know, but if OG isn't a Raptor next year I deeply think he'll be a Pacer.

I have minimal interest in Mathurin. He's not the player I'd want dominating the ball on a rebuilding team. I'd be wary of giving him that sort of opportunity. He's a better fit alongside a legitimate starting PG. I'm not aquatinted with Walker but I'd be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for an expiring OG. I think Nembhard adds more value to the Pacers over the next 4 years than he would to a rebuilding team. As a basis, non-contributors would be traded for an impact wing and your developmental pipeline isn't depleted.

See, we don’t know that he won’t leave. We just say “he played at IU, and he’d fit there roster wise, why would he leave?” But we forget that Victor Oladipo played at IU, was given the keys to the team, and even before his injury, was asking teams to trade for him and that he was coming to play with them. He wasn’t saying “this is my city”, he was saying “this is my s***”.

I think a lot of Raptors fans are seeing the inherent risks of losing a guy like OG for nothing, recognize that pending unrestricted free agency is a risk, and then ignoring all those things in hopes that OG’s college market would pay full price in trade and ignore all those risks as well. And yet Indiana is historically cautious and values team control over almost anything else.


But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

Your logic is completely valid. Or course there is an inherent risk involved. I'm speaking from a place of intuition.

I'd add that front offices and agents are constantly circumventing the CBA. Plenty of conversations are had behind the scenes. So, these sorts of trades don't occur unless the center piece is likely to stay or they're locked-in for years. Kawhi is more the exception nowadays. I'd bet the trade only happens if there's indication that OG stays.

[Scoot McGroot]

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135. I don't think the same could said for Pascal, I wouldn't want a trade for him if I were a Pacers fan.

OG's college career was in Indiana and there have been some indications that he'd be interested in returning. Interactions that various Raptors pundits noticed last season. It's just speculation but I have this gut feeling there's legitimacy to it. I'm a random person online, I know, but if OG isn't a Raptor next year I deeply think he'll be a Pacer.

I have minimal interest in Mathurin. He's not the player I'd want dominating the ball on a rebuilding team. I'd be wary of giving him that sort of opportunity. He's a better fit alongside a legitimate starting PG. I'm not aquatinted with Walker but I'd be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for an expiring OG. I think Nembhard adds more value to the Pacers over the next 4 years than he would to a rebuilding team. As a basis, non-contributors would be traded for an impact wing and your developmental pipeline isn't depleted.

See, we don’t know that he won’t leave. We just say “he played at IU, and he’d fit there roster wise, why would he leave?” But we forget that Victor Oladipo played at IU, was given the keys to the team, and even before his injury, was asking teams to trade for him and that he was coming to play with them. He wasn’t saying “this is my city”, he was saying “this is my s***”.

I think a lot of Raptors fans are seeing the inherent risks of losing a guy like OG for nothing, recognize that pending unrestricted free agency is a risk, and then ignoring all those things in hopes that OG’s college market would pay full price in trade and ignore all those risks as well. And yet Indiana is historically cautious and values team control over almost anything else.


But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

Your logic is completely valid. Or course there is an inherent risk involved. I'm speaking from a place of intuition.

I'd add that front offices and agents are constantly circumventing the CBA. Plenty of conversations are had behind the scenes. So, these sorts of trades don't occur unless the center piece is likely to stay or they're locked-in for years. Kawhi is more the exception nowadays. I'd bet the trade only happens if there's indication that OG stays.

See, that’s the other thing. OG and his team can say whatever they want. The problem is, he can still leave as if he never said it. And another team can’t ever even intimate that they had that type of conversation because they’ll have to admit they clearly and knowingly broke CBA rules.

These types of agreements are only worth the paper they’re written on. Which, of course, is none.

[Pacers_Freak]

I really don't think OG would leave. He's going for 4 years 125-135. I don't think the same could said for Pascal, I wouldn't want a trade for him if I were a Pacers fan.

OG's college career was in Indiana and there have been some indications that he'd be interested in returning. Interactions that various Raptors pundits noticed last season. It's just speculation but I have this gut feeling there's legitimacy to it. I'm a random person online, I know, but if OG isn't a Raptor next year I deeply think he'll be a Pacer.

I have minimal interest in Mathurin. He's not the player I'd want dominating the ball on a rebuilding team. I'd be wary of giving him that sort of opportunity. He's a better fit alongside a legitimate starting PG. I'm not aquatinted with Walker but I'd be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for an expiring OG. I think Nembhard adds more value to the Pacers over the next 4 years than he would to a rebuilding team. As a basis, non-contributors would be traded for an impact wing and your developmental pipeline isn't depleted.

See, we don’t know that he won’t leave. We just say “he played at IU, and he’d fit there roster wise, why would he leave?” But we forget that Victor Oladipo played at IU, was given the keys to the team, and even before his injury, was asking teams to trade for him and that he was coming to play with them. He wasn’t saying “this is my city”, he was saying “this is my s***”.

I think a lot of Raptors fans are seeing the inherent risks of losing a guy like OG for nothing, recognize that pending unrestricted free agency is a risk, and then ignoring all those things in hopes that OG’s college market would pay full price in trade and ignore all those risks as well. And yet Indiana is historically cautious and values team control over almost anything else.


But I’m sure you’d be satisfied with Walker, Sheppard, and a first for OG. That’s an insane valuation for a half season rental and the requirement to be willing to max OG to keep him. There’s a lot of teams that can clears max cap space this summer. And not a lot of top players on the market. If OG is willing to leave his market, he could easily get a max.

Your logic is completely valid. Or course there is an inherent risk involved. I'm speaking from a place of intuition.

I'd add that front offices and agents are constantly circumventing the CBA. Plenty of conversations are had behind the scenes. So, these sorts of trades don't occur unless the center piece is likely to stay or they're locked-in for years. Kawhi is more the exception nowadays. I'd bet the trade only happens if there's indication that OG stays.

Then why wouldn't the Pacers just go get him this summer? They have no reason to be in a hurry. This team is a lot of fun and ahead of schedule, but they are not contenders.

[jowglenn]

We should see if Andrew Wiggins comes available - if the Warriors continue to struggle and they decide to make moves, maybe we could get him for something. Buddy Hield + ?

[Tom White]

We should see if Andrew Wiggins comes available - if the Warriors continue to struggle and they decide to make moves, maybe we could get him for something. Buddy Hield + ?

Why? He doesn't solve our problems. We need size, rebounding and defense. He would just duplicate what we already have.

[Wizop]

I'm moving into the trade Buddy camp. he plays great with Tyrese but I watched Sheppard light it up last night in garbage time.do we really have serious interest in giving Buddy a new contract for next season? is keeping him likely to give us a home playoff series?

[Pacers_Freak]

I'm moving into the trade Buddy camp. he plays great with Tyrese but I watched Sheppard light it up last night in garbage time.do we really have serious interest in giving Buddy a new contract for next season? is keeping him likely to give us a home playoff series?

Please don't re-sign Buddy. I'm with you. We don't need anymore guards. I'm not sold we need to trade him (depends on the market) but I'm sold on not bringing him back. That money can be put to use in a much better way.

[Wizop]

I'm not sold we need to trade him (depends on the market) but I'm sold on not bringing him back. That money can be put to use in a much better way.

it comes back to that lose a player for nothing argument. I agree that doesn't always make it the wrong thing to do. the goal is clear though - we need a bigger wing who can defend. of course, as last night and the Laker game showed, there are players no one can defend. sometimes making a player work for his points is the best you can do.

[Pacers_Freak]

I'm not sold we need to trade him (depends on the market) but I'm sold on not bringing him back. That money can be put to use in a much better way.

it comes back to that lose a player for nothing argument. I agree that doesn't always make it the wrong thing to do. the goal is clear though - we need a bigger wing who can defend. of course, as last night and the Laker game showed, there are players no one can defend. sometimes making a player work for his points is the best you can do.

Totally agree. If the trade scenario isn't right for us I have no problem letting him walk for nothing I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[Wizop]

I have no problem letting him walk for nothing I guess is what I'm trying to say.

I also have no problem just replacing Buddy and Johnson with FRPs. I suspect though that they'll need a roster spot for a free agent.

[JMaster5K]

I'm moving into the trade Buddy camp. he plays great with Tyrese but I watched Sheppard light it up last night in garbage time.do we really have serious interest in giving Buddy a new contract for next season? is keeping him likely to give us a home playoff series?

I'm not in the 'trade Buddy' camp,.. but I am high on Sheppard. If he gets a chance to learn and grow his game, he can be a really special 'role playing starter' as a SG. If he learns the movement shooting from Buddy,... by watching him,.. and adds that into his arsenal. I believe he can be a borderline all-star. He's a +, but not elite athlete, by NBA standards. He defends,.. and man,. that shot. Ben as your catch & shoot option, with Benn as your attacking cutter that can shoot. Year after next could be a realllllly fun year. =]

[Topofthekey]

I think Brown is the odd man out long term

They can try starting both Benn and Buddy, that'll allow Sheppard to play backup minutes at the 3 and 2

Something like

Benn, Nesmith
Buddy, Sheppard
Tyrese, Nembhard, TJ

Am I forgetting anyone?

[basketballwacko2]

Your logic is completely valid. Or course there is an inherent risk involved. I'm speaking from a place of intuition.

I'd add that front offices and agents are constantly circumventing the CBA. Plenty of conversations are had behind the scenes. So, these sorts of trades don't occur unless the center piece is likely to stay or they're locked-in for years. Kawhi is more the exception nowadays. I'd bet the trade only happens if there's indication that OG stays.

The only way to know if he's gonna stay is if he was willing to extend, which he is not. Because he expects to make a lot more as a UFA. He's not eligible for a Renegotiated Extension at this point. The Pacers have $10 million in cap space right now but via the rules for the R&E they can't give him such a deal. So he's gonna hit UFA and the only advantage Indiana would have is the bird rights and a 5th season. For some players that's enough but we have not seen that as helping the Pacers sign guys. So I posted this in the thread in the T&T forum, it's not worth the risk to send out the young players and picks that the Raptors are gonna want.

If OG wants to be a Pacers maybe he can be signed, maybe it would be a sign and trade, IDK. But I'm not willing to risk giving away assets and losing a guy. I hope the Pacers management has the same view of this as I do. This is year 2 of the rebuild, the team will have 2 more #1's and cap space in the offseason.