Oakland (4th - AFCW) at Cleveland (3rd - AFCN)

[FNQ]

I agree. Rodgers won on intangibles - causing offsides, 12 man penalties, and identifying good matchups. But the OL and WR raced to their positions to cause the offsides and 12 man penalties too. The receivers won their matchups as well.

Grading intangibles is a slippery slope, its essentially what people's eyes already do. It can be biased easily. So valuing actual throws and grading based on that, consistently, is better than marking up a grade that appears low due to the boxscore. I appreciate that they stand by it and explain the why. I too, having just acquired Rodgers in fantasy, felt at times he wasn't playing great once the ball was snapped. A few plays he made some bad reads, held the ball too long.. all that. I certainly wouldnt have graded him negatively, but the constant offsides definitely skews everything. He made some risky throws because he knew the play wouldnt count if he didnt want it, but PFF still grades on the throws because they did happen.

I dunno. Its clearly not a perfect system but there is a ton of value in the stats if you're willing to accept that its not a be-all end-all.

[benchmobbin02]

What a game! Been out of town all weekend working and just got a chance to give it a really good second watch.

Game Notes -

Carr looked accurate and poised. A big step up for him, granted vs a subpar defense but the throws were much better and the decision making improved markedly.

Cooper continues to impress. There are reports Hayden bruised his ribs on the first play of the game but stayed in at 50% due to limited depth. I still another 100 yard game for the rookie and they are starting to take real notice around the league.

Murray broke out as well with the help of solid oline play late and a nice 54 yard run. The big play was setup by play action on the previous play with a rollout and connection between Carr and Crabtree. 139 yards and nominated for the NFL Ground Player of the Week. Not bad! Let's hope we don't forget and are able to keep this balance in play calling through the year because we see how important it is for success.

Roberts continues to be up and down. He missed two easy catches, one on a screen and the other could have been a touchdown but on cue he redeems himself with a long 36 yard play and a another TD catch.

The swap of Carrie to safety was interesting. We all knew that a change was coming but none of us predicted that it would be him. Whether or not it is permanent or until Allen returns, we don't know, but Carrie kept things in front of him and is a sure tackler.

Hayden had some more missed tackles late and Thorpe was toasted on a few plays again but overall the corner play was better. I can see them getting better as we play. I credit the coaching.

I liked what I have seen from Amerson as the nickel back and subbing for Hayden. He has decent technique and plays with aggressiveness. If not for a questionable penalty, I think his grade would have been positive. Barely missed a INT in the first half. I think he will continue to improve.

CWood still gutting out almost every play with that shoulder. Guy is incredible! I just hope a missed tackle doesn't cost us a game one of these times. But no question we are better with him out there than if it were Carrie and Asante starting.

Once again the inside zone and TE coverage by the LB and safety assigned left something to be desired. Two plays in particular, one by CWood and Carrie and one by Lofton and Smith left Barnidge open for big yards. Gotta get it corrected. An easy way to atleast try is to NEVER EVER EVER let a TE get a clean release. It's easy to get a jam especially when he is inline with a hand on the ground.

But the overall play by the LB crew of M.Smith, Lofton and A.Smith was improved. They all had large impacts on the game where we needed them. Aldon helping to collapse the pocket in the pass rush, Lofton as the Qb of the front 7 and making great stops especially on the goalline and Malcom Smith being all over the field. Can't say enough about his impact on this defense. I wasn't sure about him in the offseason but KNJ was right. We got one.

Mack finnally had his breakout game with 2 sacks, forced fumble and a few near misses. He got beat to the Qb by Smith and Mccown barely got away another time or we are looking at a four sack day.

Offense play of the game for me - Carr to Reece for 55yards. I really wish he was more involved in the offense but the same could be said for the TE group. Good throw and catch and Reece breaking tackles and getting Yac with the help of Cooper and Roberts blocking 40 yards down field. If Reece doesn't stumble over his own feet he may score. The play setup the touchdown to out us 3 scores ahead.

Offense stat of the game for me - Would proably be YAC if I could find or took the time to figure it out but I will go with play call balance - 32 pass att to 30 rush att. Had a lot to do with our offensive success IMO

Defensive play of the game for me - Have to go with a series. The goalline stand at the end of the 2nd qtr. Team stuff of Crowell on 1st down. M. Smith with a great hit to dislodge a would be catch for a touchdown by Barnidge on 2 down. The stuff by Lofton, Williams and Mack of Crowell on third down. The fear of A. Smith and Mack's pass rush causes double false starts by the OT of the Browns, forcing a Field Goal. You should even put the touchdown saving tackle by Carrie at the 1 yard line on Crowell after he outran CWood to the edge. That got it all started.

Defensive stat of the game - No question it's the 5, count'em, FIVE SACKS by the Raiders. All by linebackers, I might add, thou mack is a hybrid at best at this point. Mack had 2, Armstrong, M.Smith and Ball all had 1.

We can see what this team wants to be, in terms of style of play, and I think the real test will be whether we are able to impose our will vs really solid teams after the bye week.

[Neddy]

I am an avid fan of advanced stats, especially for baseball, but I don't agree Amari and Aldon had overall negative game on last sunday.
glad to see Carr finally being recognized. I believe in this kid. he appears to be better than his older brother and bound for greatness someday.

PFF isn't advanced stats, its basically an eyeball test that they reduce to a numerical grade. It's valuable because they watch the same play multiple times and catch things the eyes wouldn't. If you don't agree with the grades at face value, that's fine, but the more you look into them, the more you'll understand them. First thing you need to know: OL, DL, and LB always have the highest grades, because they are graded on every play. RBs and WRs tend to have the lowest range of grades, because they are graded on a finite # of plays.

Aldon had a couple nice plays but was also beaten up in the 2nd half of the game. Amari had a great game, but WR get little PFF credit for route running (and on plays where they dont get the ball, they dont get a grade) meaning they are essentially graded on a handful of plays, and if you fumble in the 4th quarter of a close game on one of those plays, you will get dinged.

tells you how much I know football, lol. yeah Im a baseball guy who loves my clips and raiders due to my childhood loyalty of the old LA Coliseum/Sports Arena days when i was working near by. thanks for the correction. where can I find actual advanced stats that are worth a damn for football?

[FNQ]

I'm sure there are some out there - I would consider QBR and QB Rtg advanced stats, I guess - but football is one of those sports where I think situational stats are way more indicative of anything than any advanced stats. That comes with a disclaimer - I don't know many advanced football stats. I know there is a pass rush index, a pass pro index, SPARQ rating (athleticism), stuff like that.

Whatever they are, they aren't as prominent as they are in basketball and baseball, where intangibles are more basic due to less moving parts (basketball) or a general individualized game (baseball).

[FNQ]

Andy Benoit is checking in on us again after not going over the OAK/BAL film, confirms that we were zone-heavy the first 2 weeks:
https://twitter.com/Andy_Benoit

***STILL BEING UPDATED***

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 37m37 minutes ago
Film: #Raiders began the game with a 3-4 base. Smith and Mack the OLB’s.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 27m27 minutes ago
Film: #Raiders a lot of double 3-tech fronts with NT out of base 3-4. Creates more 1 on 1 blocking vs. OLB’s.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 22m22 minutes ago
Film: #Browns featured empty sets out of “12” personnel. #Raiders defended it well.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 21m21 minutes ago
#Raiders Film: Woodson matched up to TE in man concepts, had two early solo stops. Carrie was the FS.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 18m18 minutes ago
#Raiders Film: The recently signed Amerson was NB, played outside. McGill only played special teams.Coaches clearly low on McGill.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 15m15 minutes ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: On Barnidge 40 yds Woodson played Cover 3, Carrie played Qtrs. McCown spotted void. 3rd-14, likely Woodson mistake.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 7m7 minutes ago
Film: #Raiders pass rush consistently collapsed pocket. McCown did good job navigating it but the pass rush impacted several #Browns throws.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 6m6 minutes ago
Film: #Raiders sprinkled in more snaps of man coverage than previous weeks, had success.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 4m4 minutes ago
#Raiders Film: Mack and Aldon Smith both did outstanding job setting the edge vs. outside zone run game.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 3m3 minutes ago
#Browns Film: #Raiders featured interior DL stunts. C Mack and G’s Bitonio and Greco handled them well.

[benchmobbin02]

Andy Benoit is checking in on us again after not going over the OAK/BAL film, confirms that we were zone-heavy the first 2 weeks:
https://twitter.com/Andy_Benoit

***STILL BEING UPDATED***

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 6m6 minutes ago
Film: #Raiders sprinkled in more snaps of man coverage than previous weeks, had success.

He doesn't confirm that by any means. If you're talking about the tweet quoted above, he is only saying that more man coverage was used this week than previous weeks. Doesn't state a ratio of zone to man coverage.

In fact, the only time he confirms man or zone coverage, is discussing coverage of the middle of the field occupied by linebackers and safeties. I conceded that we played some zone last week (the game I reviewed and brokedown). I also made clear that many times in coverage sets the safeties or MLBs will have zone assignments and the corners and nickelbacks will be in man coverage. My point being that the corners and nickelback were in man coverage the majority of the time from what I observed.

[FNQ]

In his first set on the Raiders/Cinci game, he said they were almost exclusively in cover2/3 all game.

In this game, he says there's a sprinkle of man.. you can cling to straws all you want but the Ravens game looked exactly like cover 2 and cover 3, and this was the first game where we weren't running that all game. We still ran it a lot though, but there's no mistaking it for man anymore, we're a cover defense right now, and based on how we performed in man against CLE, we should absolutely stay a cover defense. We're not very good at man and we took our best man defender and made him a FS

[FNQ]

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Malcolm Smith sack was man-free blitz with Mack attacking inside on a lung stunt. McCown forced to move towards Smith

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: in second half #Raiders had snaps of base 3-4 vs. #Browns 3 WR. Carrie covered slot, Woodson FS.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: #Browns pass pro solidified a bit as game progressed. McCown was a little quicker with ball, too, that helped.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: Barnidge 28-yd TD on 4th-1 was condensed formation with “22” personnel.....
cont....Carrie and others did not connect on communication after Barnidge motioned across formation.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Mack sack vs. slow timing (QB had to wait on double move by WR) w/ FB Johnson taking him opposite a protection slide.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders Film: Mack on sack showed sensational closing speed.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns Film: FB Johnson asked a few times to block Mack or Smith one on one in various concepts, did very poorly.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: Hartline 41 yds on 3rd-17 Cover 2 S Carrie reacted to “2” slot deep post on McCown subtle pump, Hartline uncovered.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: WR Gabriel burned Amerson on double-move for would-be TD but McCown bad underthrow. Amerson defensive hold.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: #Browns nothing in run game, could not move #Raiders DL.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: #Browns have no receivers who can win on contested catches. Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin all diminutive. Hartline is closest thing.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: McCown was a beat slow to process at times, needs to be more anticipatory. Mack sack-fmbl a great example.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Mack has an excellent bull rush. RT Mitchell had his hands full.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns #Raiders Film: first play of final drive Benjamin double move beat Thorpe for possible game-tying TD but McCown deep ball hung.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Browns Film: McCown off-target on 3 possible TDs: two deep balls and TE in back of end zone (sailed).

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Hartline 19 yds product of M.Smith unsure of coverage call coming out of 2:00 warning. Cover 3, he guarded empty flat

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: overall #Raiders played well but far too many mistakes in coverage, could have been a different outcome.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
Film: #Raiders pass rush was exhausted on final drive.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders Film: Neiron Ball sack was perfect stunt execution between him (DE) and DT Mario Edwards. Huge play.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 2h2 hours ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Woodson game-sealing INT from Cover 2, McCown read that side of field late and threw “arm only” ball w/o definition.

Andy Benoit ‏@Andy_Benoit 13m13 minutes ago
#Raiders #Browns Film: Carr has ability to play from pocket or on the move, improvised or designed movement.

[Twinkie defense]

Raiders defense has been a problem; we have experienced, defensive-minded coaches who are scheming and changing things up and I'm sure that will continue on a game to game basis - if they lock into one scheme everyone will know what's coming, prepare for it, and we'll be right back where we started vs. Cincinnati.

Remember the old box and one in basketball? Raiders have been employing a version, with one side of the field with the secondary in man coverage, and the other side in zone coverage. So maybe that's where some of the confusion lies - Raiders are mixing it up.

BTW PFF said the Raiders did not blitz a single time vs. Cincinnati? That is not correct. There were not many, but there were two or three (and definitely fewer than in game 2). I think we will see a lot of the five-man front, but the amount of blitzes called will depend on the opponent - I'm definitely not expecting to see Peyton Manning face a heavy blitz from us. And Andy Benoit calling the Raiders' formation a 3-4 is a misnomer, though of course the five man front is very similar to the 3-4, except you are constantly bringing your two OLB's to the line of scrimmage, and if they get a hand in the dirt that doesn't hurt.

[FNQ]

Raiders defense has been a problem; we have experienced, defensive-minded coaches who are scheming and changing things up and I'm sure that will continue on a game to game basis - if they lock into one scheme everyone will know what's coming, prepare for it, and we'll be right back where we started vs. Cincinnati

Remember the old box and one in basketball? Raiders have been employing a version, with one side of the field with the secondary in man coverage, and the other side in zone coverage. So maybe that's where some of the confusion lies - Raiders are mixing it up.

That only started this week, though. Against BAL and CIN we ran a clear cover 2 with the CBs holding the sidelines and the LBs posting the flats and middle on both sides. We ran a chunk of man in the nickel those 2 weeks, but more often fell into cover schemes across the field. Week 3 might be the beginning of the adjustment stages..

BTW PFF said the Raiders did not blitz a single time vs. Cincinnati? That is not correct. There were not many, but there were two or three (and definitely fewer than in game 2). I think we will see a lot of the five-man front, but the amount of blitzes called will depend on the opponent - I'm definitely not expecting to see Peyton Manning face a heavy blitz from us. And Andy Benoit calling the Raiders' formation a 3-4 is a misnomer, though of course the five man front is very similar to the 3-4, except you are constantly bringing your two OLB's to the line of scrimmage, and if they get a hand in the dirt that doesn't hurt.

Where do you see PFF saying we didnt blitz vs Cinci?

Isn't a 5 front 3-4 called Oklahoma or Eagle or something? I dunno. We might be making it up as we go, for all I know. But we definitely are running more of a 5-2 than 3-4. But we definitely need to get a 4th guy getting consistent pressure. Tuck, Aldon and Mack are doing great, but like Benoit said and I saw, we were gassed in the 4th Q.

[benchmobbin02]

In his first set on the Raiders/Cinci game, he said they were almost exclusively in cover2/3 all game.

In this game, he says there's a sprinkle of man.. you can cling to straws all you want but the Ravens game looked exactly like cover 2 and cover 3, and this was the first game where we weren't running that all game. We still ran it a lot though, but there's no mistaking it for man anymore, we're a cover defense right now, and based on how we performed in man against CLE, we should absolutely stay a cover defense. We're not very good at man and we took our best man defender and made him a FS

I explained that cover 2 to can be called and the corners can be in man coverage but this is pointless to keep arguing since neither will convince the other. Agree to disagree.

Regardless, we are playing combos of zone and man which is a good thing like Twink said. We need to stay diverse and evolve the defense to the offense and QB that we will face that week. Even when a defense has been incredible for a team they were eventually figured out and had to add wrinkles to throw off the superior QBs that they faced in the playoffs.

It feels like the defense is still figuring out what they are doing due to the system being new, injuries and new players. As long as we keep evolving and scoring more points than the other team I'm good. This year will be about finding what we keep and what we will throw away in terms of scheme and personal. It is far too early to make any of those decisions after 3 games.

[benchmobbin02]

Isn't a 5 front 3-4 called Oklahoma or Eagle or something? I dunno. We might be making it up as we go, for all I know. But we definitely are running more of a 5-2 than 3-4. But we definitely need to get a 4th guy getting consistent pressure. Tuck, Aldon and Mack are doing great, but like Benoit said and I saw, we were gassed in the 4th Q.

In modern terms, it's called the 3-4 under. Mack and Aldon Smith take turns rushing from the strong side as a hybrid DE/LB and both occasionally drop into coverage in the flat/ contain the play. We are getting the pressure from these two positions or from stunts. The interior linemen rarely get any real pressure that isn't proceded by the edges breaking the pocket structure. All 5 sacks came from the edge or stunt. Autry and Tuck have been active but bottled up by the interior line for the most part getting a few hurries or hits each.

That is what this defense expects from their position. Push, maintaining lane options in single blocking schemes and energy. The NT clogs the middle and keeps the LBs clean and the edges get the pressure and keep contain.

The defensive fron being tired in the forth qtr had less to do with how was providing pressure and more to do with 3 straight offensive drives in the forth qtr of under 2mins30secs, (2:31 to be exact).

[FNQ]

I noticed them being tired in the 2nd half early.. but admittedly it was mostly Aldon. I think he's still playing his way into top form

[benchmobbin02]

Yeah, he didn't have a training camp or a team oriented offseason so that is to be expected. The line being tired in the 4th was more the offense having 3 and 4 play drives in the forth qtr.

[Twinkie defense]

Where do you see PFF saying we didnt blitz vs Cinci?

Sorry maybe it was somewhere else I saw that stat... when I Google it now I find this:

The only team in the NFL that did not send a single blitz this weekend was, you guessed it, the Raiders. The rest of the league sent at least one extra defender into the backfield to pressure the quarterback an average of 13 times, according to STATS.

What did PFF report?

[Twinkie defense]

With the five man front vs. Cleveland our d-line was really spread out in the interior. Whatever was going on it was working, at least last week. However we manufacture it we're going to have to pressure QBs in order to take some pressure off of the secondary.

[benchmobbin02]

That's the goal.

[FNQ]

Where do you see PFF saying we didnt blitz vs Cinci?

Sorry maybe it was somewhere else I saw that stat... when I Google it now I find this:

The only team in the NFL that did not send a single blitz this weekend was, you guessed it, the Raiders. The rest of the league sent at least one extra defender into the backfield to pressure the quarterback an average of 13 times, according to STATS.

What did PFF report?

Nothing, they dont detail things like that unless its in the game review blurbs

[benchmobbin02]

We don't really need to blitz. With the 5 man line Mack and Smith rushing almost every down. It's impose our will on the offense by staying constantly strong at the line of scrimmage vs the run or the pass. We have the ability to drop the edge guys into coverage when needed and can chip the inline TE. We can run easy stunts and combo rushes that overwhelm the protections easily without sacrificing coverage in our base sets. Mack and Smith almost always are on on one with the tackle unless an eligible receiver stays in to help and then we have the advantage in coverage. Really like the 5 men on the line set.