Week 4: Seahawks @ 49ers

[thesack12]

Well this was another winnable game.

Not having a kicker, and Trent Cannon forgetting how to play football were the 2 biggest factors

A lot of dropped balls too. Some were bad throws, but our receivers need to do a better job of catching the ball.

Deebo is a freaking monster though.

For sure, Deebo is quickly developing into this team's best player

[Jikkle]

As far as Lance goes I thought he was fine in this game given the circumstances. He just wasn't going to explode and look like Mahomes out there coming in at half-time taking scout team reps all week but I did see positive along with the negative.

He was erratic and appeared to be jacked up early but he looked better as he settled down especially that final drive. He had some badly missed throws, had some good throws, and I thought he had some good throws that were defeated by good defensive play on the Hawk's part.

We saw how potent his scrambling can be I liked the fact he was looking downfield most of the time when he was scrambling and only took off once that became the best option.

I've seen some say he doesn't feel the pressure well but I felt like it wasn't that he doesn't feel it well he just needs to learn to step up in the pocket and navigate it better rather than it being a case that he didn't feel it.

Overall my impression of him is that of what it was in the preseason and that he just needs experience and we've seen that be the case with other rookie QBs as last week was a brutal outing for the rookie class but they looked better.

[thesack12]

Read on Twitter

Looks like the Trey Lance era has arrived

[Jikkle]

Read on Twitter

Looks like the Trey Lance era has arrived

If Jimmy can return after the bye he might get his job but if he's out beyond that It's pretty unlikely that he will.

Either the team wins with Trey and you have no reason to go back to Jimmy or the team struggles behind Trey and you're out of the playoff hunt so better off keeping him in there and to get him up to speed for next year.

Regardless it seems Shanahan/Lynch were correct in getting a QB in the draft. We could argue if they should've traded up to #3 or if they picked the right guy but given that Jimmy is injured again they made the right call to begin the process of moving off of him.

[CrimsonCrew]

Where to begin on this one (and why does it feel like that's always my reaction after a Hawks game)? Had to watch on tape delay last night, and it made for a bad night of sleep. Basically everything that could go wrong did in this one, and ultimately that shines a pretty stark light on Shanahan IMO.

I'll start with the offense, since that was the bigger issue in this one. Yes, I realize Garoppolo apparently hurt himself in the first series and that probably affected his play, but it's just the same thing over and over. He's not getting it done. Seven points in a half against a defense that is bad (in their prior two games, they allowed 30 points to a team that put up 7 this week, and 33 to a team that just lost to the Jets - admittedly without their two top offensive players). He's not good/consistent enough to sustain the long drives that the offense requires with him at the helm. Another bad INT. He nearly got Kittle killed a couple times. He's not doing what he needs to. Even if he weren't injured, I'd feel pretty strongly that it is time to go to Lance.

Lance has plenty of issues that he'll have to work out, but the best way to do that is to play through them. He's not going to get accustomed to the NFL game without playing meaningful snaps in NFL games, to say nothing of getting practice snaps with the ones. Lance is going to be a major work in progress, and I don't want to read too much into the solid drives he put together late. He had the benefit of four downs - yes, it's impressive that he converted numerous fourth downs, but I would have preferred not to get into those situations - and arguably was facing something of a prevent D.

Lance's early accuracy was awful, though he settled down somewhat. He was still really scattershot, and that's arguably the first area he'll have to improve. He never hit his back foot and made a throw with poise and timing, and that's another big area for improvement in a WCO. But his ability to keep plays alive with his feet - whether running or moving in the backfield and keeping his eyes downfield - is something that Garoppolo just doesn't offer, as is the downfield passing threat. Our offense will have so many more avenues to success with him at QB, and that should open things up for everyone. His mobility should also slow down the pass rush a bit as teams can't just race upfield after him and will need to maintain their rush lanes. I hope Shanahan continues to let him throw and doesn't get super conservative. The draws up the middle on third down are already making me crazy.

The run game was decent in this one, but it seemed like Sermon just didn't quite have the burst to break a couple that could have been long ones. OL had some struggles, of course, though Moore actually appeared to do okay in limited reps. Hopefully we won't need him for long.

I was incredibly impressed with how the D played early in this one. The DL was getting they type of pressure we need out of them, though it tapered off as the game went on, with the result that the Hawks were able to put some drives together. That said, with fringe NFL talent at two of three starting CB spots, we were able to completely corral a good offense for 25 minutes, and get stops late. That's despite two turnovers in our own territory. But as usual, the wheels fell off a little bit as the game progressed. Not confident that dynamic will change this season.

STs...OMG. It's been an issue ever since Shanahan has been here. But today. WTF was up with Gould? Bad game for him to not be able to go. Wishnowsky did alright in general, despite just missing a couple kids. But late in the game he had like a 32-yard punt. And Trent Cannon should never see an NFL field again. Obviously has no idea what the touchback rules are. Caught the ball, rolled through the endzone, and then celebrated. And how many mistakes can you make on one KO? Don't field it, then muff it off the bounce, then fumble it trying to advance it. My lord. Dickson is maybe the toughest punter in the NFL to go against, but Aiyuk couldn't seem to handle his kicks cleanly.

[CrimsonCrew]

Oh, and this was early in the game, but how exactly is it okay for Jamal Adams to run full speed into Kittle on the flea flicker? Maybe it wasn't PI because the bobbled pass back to Garoppolo led to him not getting the ball out as soon as he should have, but it was sure as **** illegal contact, and potentially a big moment in the game.

[Samurai]

Spoiler:

Where to begin on this one (and why does it feel like that's always my reaction after a Hawks game)? Had to watch on tape delay last night, and it made for a bad night of sleep. Basically everything that could go wrong did in this one, and ultimately that shines a pretty stark light on Shanahan IMO.

I'll start with the offense, since that was the bigger issue in this one. Yes, I realize Garoppolo apparently hurt himself in the first series and that probably affected his play, but it's just the same thing over and over. He's not getting it done. Seven points in a half against a defense that is bad (in their prior two games, they allowed 30 points to a team that put up 7 this week, and 33 to a team that just lost to the Jets - admittedly without their two top offensive players). He's not good/consistent enough to sustain the long drives that the offense requires with him at the helm. Another bad INT. He nearly got Kittle killed a couple times. He's not doing what he needs to. Even if he weren't injured, I'd feel pretty strongly that it is time to go to Lance.

Lance has plenty of issues that he'll have to work out, but the best way to do that is to play through them. He's not going to get accustomed to the NFL game without playing meaningful snaps in NFL games, to say nothing of getting practice snaps with the ones. Lance is going to be a major work in progress, and I don't want to read too much into the solid drives he put together late. He had the benefit of four downs - yes, it's impressive that he converted numerous fourth downs, but I would have preferred not to get into those situations - and arguably was facing something of a prevent D.

Lance's early accuracy was awful, though he settled down somewhat. He was still really scattershot, and that's arguably the first area he'll have to improve. He never hit his back foot and made a throw with poise and timing, and that's another big area for improvement in a WCO. But his ability to keep plays alive with his feet - whether running or moving in the backfield and keeping his eyes downfield - is something that Garoppolo just doesn't offer, as is the downfield passing threat. Our offense will have so many more avenues to success with him at QB, and that should open things up for everyone. His mobility should also slow down the pass rush a bit as teams can't just race upfield after him and will need to maintain their rush lanes. I hope Shanahan continues to let him throw and doesn't get super conservative. The draws up the middle on third down are already making me crazy.

The run game was decent in this one, but it seemed like Sermon just didn't quite have the burst to break a couple that could have been long ones. OL had some struggles, of course, though Moore actually appeared to do okay in limited reps. Hopefully we won't need him for long.

I was incredibly impressed with how the D played early in this one. The DL was getting they type of pressure we need out of them, though it tapered off as the game went on, with the result that the Hawks were able to put some drives together. That said, with fringe NFL talent at two of three starting CB spots, we were able to completely corral a good offense for 25 minutes, and get stops late. That's despite two turnovers in our own territory. But as usual, the wheels fell off a little bit as the game progressed. Not confident that dynamic will change this season.

STs...OMG. It's been an issue ever since Shanahan has been here. But today. WTF was up with Gould? Bad game for him to not be able to go. Wishnowsky did alright in general, despite just missing a couple kids. But late in the game he had like a 32-yard punt. And Trent Cannon should never see an NFL field again. Obviously has no idea what the touchback rules are. Caught the ball, rolled through the endzone, and then celebrated. And how many mistakes can you make on one KO? Don't field it, then muff it off the bounce, then fumble it trying to advance it. My lord. Dickson is maybe the toughest punter in the NFL to go against, but Aiyuk couldn't seem to handle his kicks cleanly.

Jimmy G looked fine early on, which makes sense given that he was injured on the first drive. He couldn't push off his back leg after that and you could see the drop in velocity as the first half wore on; and given that even at full strength no one compares his velocity to Brett Favre, that is really bad. I think he is a serviceable QB at full strength; he just can't be counted on to be at full strength. His athletic limitations are such that even a very minor injury is enough to drop him from serviceable to not helpful.

I think everyone knew that poise and accuracy would be the main things Lance needed to work on as a pro and that hasn't changed. He just needs to really accelerate that learning curve now. If it looks like he has made significant strides by the end of this year, I'll be much more confident about him going into next season. Gotta remember we are talking about a kid that has only been able to legally buy beer for 4 months and had a grand total of 19 college games.

Agree that our run game looked decent, actually better than I thought they would do. Can't really blame Sermon for not having that burst - guy only ran a 4.58 40 at his best. Speed just isn't his game. That's where losing Mostert has hurt us the most as none of our revolving door of RB's can come close to replicating that game-changing speed. And I hope I've just seen Cannon's last game in a Niner uniform; we could have won that game if he would have stayed at home.

[thesack12]

Objectively speaking, Trey was not that impressive yesterday.

Overall Lance was 9/18 for 157 yards, and looked pretty jittery in the pocket a lot of the time.

If you take out the 76 yard TD where Seattle completely forgot about Deebo and there wasn't a Seahawk within like 20 yards of him, that leaves Trey 8/17 for only 81 yards.

Even that last drive wasn't great when you consider since Seattle had a 15 point lead with 4 minutes left they were playing a form of prevent style scheme defensively. On that drive Trey was 6/11 for 70 yards.

So the Deebo broken play + final drive against a soft look Seattle defense accounted for 151 of Lance's 157 yards through the air.

With Trey at the helm, the offense had 6 possessions. 2 were 3 & outs, 1 lasted only 4 plays, 1 was a turnover on downs, 1 was a broken play long TD, and 1 was a long TD drive at the end of the game that included two 4th downs.

He missed some throws, some others weren't even close. But he got unlucky on a few others that were nice throws, but got dislodged via good plays from defenders. The ball over the middle to Kittle in the end zone that Adams knocked out of George's hands was Trey's best throw of the game.

Trey wasn't great, but he definitely showed good ability to evade pressure and make things happen with his legs. As someone else mentioned, we really need to see the All 22 to tell if he had guys open downfield on his scrambles. Honestly, he didn't flash a lot with his arm. His accuracy was downright wild at times, and he was attempting a lot of the dink and dunk passes we always see with Garoppolo. Even on that broken play, Deebo had to completely stop running and turn back to catch the pass. On the flip side, he showed good arm strength with putting some serious mustard on some of his other balls.

Overall, all things considered, Trey's performance was about what you would expect. Seems like he's going to get the start against Zona, so hopefully a full week of prep to be the starter will help him and he will have a solid showing next week.

[thesack12]

Not having a kicker resulting in a missed FG & missed PAT lost Frisco 4 parts.
Cannon's idiocy on that kickoff gifted Seattle 7 points.

That's an 11 point swing, in a game that was decided by 7 points. Of course there is some butterfly effect stuff in play there, but this was definitely a winnable game.

Its so incredibly frustrating how close this team could be to sitting 4-0 right now.

[Jikkle]

Objectively speaking, Trey was not that impressive yesterday.

Overall Lance was 9/18 for 157 yards, and looked pretty jittery in the pocket a lot of the time.

If you take out the 76 yard TD where Seattle completely forgot about Deebo and there wasn't a Seahawk within like 20 yards of him, that leaves Trey 8/17 for only 81 yards.

Even that last drive wasn't great when you consider since Seattle had a 15 point lead with 4 minutes left they were playing a form of prevent style scheme defensively. On that drive Trey was 6/11 for 70 yards.

So the Deebo broken play + final drive against a soft look Seattle defense accounted for 151 of Lance's 157 yards through the air.

With Trey at the helm, the offense had 6 possessions. 2 were 3 & outs, 1 lasted only 4 plays, 1 was a turnover on downs, 1 was a broken play long TD, and 1 was a long TD drive at the end of the game that included two 4th downs.

He missed some throws, some others weren't even close. But he got unlucky on a few others that were nice throws, but got dislodged via good plays from defenders. The ball over the middle to Kittle in the end zone that Adams knocked out of George's hands was Trey's best throw of the game.

Trey wasn't great, but he definitely showed good ability to evade pressure and make things happen with his legs. As someone else mentioned, we really need to see the All 22 to tell if he had guys open downfield on his scrambles. Honestly, he didn't flash a lot with his arm. His accuracy was downright wild at times, and he was attempting a lot of the dink and dunk passes we always see with Garoppolo. Even on that broken play, Deebo had to completely stop running and turn back to catch the pass. On the flip side, he showed good arm strength with putting some serious mustard on some of his other balls.

Overall, all things considered, Trey's performance was about what you would expect. Seems like he's going to get the start against Zona, so hopefully a full week of prep to be the starter will help him and he will have a solid showing next week.

People that are pleased with what he did are more pleased with what he did given the circumstances and where he's at as a player than with the actual results.

If this is what he did week 18 after a number of starts nobody would be praising this level of performance. But because he's basically the most unpolished QB in the league and was put in at halftime at the last minute so he had 0 prep work and was working with a game plan built around Jimmy I came away encourged with what I saw.

I liked that he got better as the game went on. It'd be easy to get lose confidence after having a rough start especially when you throw a dirt ball to Kittle but it didn't seem to phase him.

Regardless of what the Seahawks were doing on defense you could tell his feel for the game was getting better just buy his movement in the pocket and his decision-making was a little more decisive.

QBs typically take 3 years before they really hit their stride so while I'd still probably stick with Jimmy if he's healthy I'd rather see Lance sooner rather than later to get that development process going.

I think Lance can be like a Russell Wilson or Kyler Murray in that his raw play making ability can carry a team to wins while he develops his ability to be a QB.

[CrimsonCrew]

Lance is still entirely a work in progress, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very worried about his accuracy, especially in the short term. But I think he needs reps to sort those things out.

The situation he was in late in the game cuts both ways. Yes, he was facing a somewhat softer defense, and he had the benefit of being in clear four-down territory much of the time which enabled him to extend drives that otherwise would have fizzled. But he also was in obvious passing situations for much of the fourth quarter, which eliminates a lot of the benefit of having him at QB. They couldn't effectively run the option stuff. They couldn't really run play action. And Mike McGlinchey suddenly remembered that he's Mike McGlinchey, and is constitutionally incapable of sustaining blocks late in games (surprising - or maybe it isn't - that he was the weak link late rather than Moore). All those things made it more difficult than Lance.

At the end of the day, his performance was not adequate for the starting QB on a competitive team. But it's really hard for a rookie to come in and flourish in that situation. Especially if we lose this upcoming week, falling three - and realistically four - games out of first in the division, I don't see much downside to letting him play out the string. I don't think we'll see that, but we should. If we fall to 2-3, as seems entirely likely, we aren't making a SB run unless Lance plays and suddenly becomes electric.

[Pattersonca65]

Lance is still entirely a work in progress, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very worried about his accuracy, especially in the short term. But I think he needs reps to sort those things out.

The situation he was in late in the game cuts both ways. Yes, he was facing a somewhat softer defense, and he had the benefit of being in clear four-down territory much of the time which enabled him to extend drives that otherwise would have fizzled. But he also was in obvious passing situations for much of the fourth quarter, which eliminates a lot of the benefit of having him at QB. They couldn't effectively run the option stuff. They couldn't really run play action. And Mike McGlinchey suddenly remembered that he's Mike McGlinchey, and is constitutionally incapable of sustaining blocks late in games (surprising - or maybe it isn't - that he was the weak link late rather than Moore). All those things made it more difficult than Lance.

At the end of the day, his performance was not adequate for the starting QB on a competitive team. But it's really hard for a rookie to come in and flourish in that situation. Especially if we lose this upcoming week, falling three - and realistically four - games out of first in the division, I don't see much downside to letting him play out the string. I don't think we'll see that, but we should. If we fall to 2-3, as seems entirely likely, we aren't making a SB run unless Lance plays and suddenly becomes electric.

If Lance's accuracy issues are a result in improper mechanics, I would argue Lance starting will actually set him back or delay fixing those issues. In game reps are not where you fix mechanical issues. If he were the start the rest of the season those issues are going to be pushed back to the offseason.

[CrimsonCrew]

Lance is still entirely a work in progress, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very worried about his accuracy, especially in the short term. But I think he needs reps to sort those things out.

The situation he was in late in the game cuts both ways. Yes, he was facing a somewhat softer defense, and he had the benefit of being in clear four-down territory much of the time which enabled him to extend drives that otherwise would have fizzled. But he also was in obvious passing situations for much of the fourth quarter, which eliminates a lot of the benefit of having him at QB. They couldn't effectively run the option stuff. They couldn't really run play action. And Mike McGlinchey suddenly remembered that he's Mike McGlinchey, and is constitutionally incapable of sustaining blocks late in games (surprising - or maybe it isn't - that he was the weak link late rather than Moore). All those things made it more difficult than Lance.

At the end of the day, his performance was not adequate for the starting QB on a competitive team. But it's really hard for a rookie to come in and flourish in that situation. Especially if we lose this upcoming week, falling three - and realistically four - games out of first in the division, I don't see much downside to letting him play out the string. I don't think we'll see that, but we should. If we fall to 2-3, as seems entirely likely, we aren't making a SB run unless Lance plays and suddenly becomes electric.

If Lance's accuracy issues are a result in improper mechanics, I would argue Lance starting will actually set him back or delay fixing those issues. In game reps are not where you fix mechanical issues. If he were the start the rest of the season those issues are going to be pushed back to the offseason.

Mixed bag. I think his biggest issue is consistent mechanics, and getting used to the NFL game will help with that. I just don't know how much teams work on fundamentals with QBs during the season these days. It seems like all these guys use the offseason to work on that. I suppose there's a chance of him getting bad habits, but I don't think it's a major concern. The most important thing for him is going to getting used to seeing NFL defenses, the speed of the game, etc.

[Pattersonca65]

Lance is still entirely a work in progress, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very worried about his accuracy, especially in the short term. But I think he needs reps to sort those things out.

The situation he was in late in the game cuts both ways. Yes, he was facing a somewhat softer defense, and he had the benefit of being in clear four-down territory much of the time which enabled him to extend drives that otherwise would have fizzled. But he also was in obvious passing situations for much of the fourth quarter, which eliminates a lot of the benefit of having him at QB. They couldn't effectively run the option stuff. They couldn't really run play action. And Mike McGlinchey suddenly remembered that he's Mike McGlinchey, and is constitutionally incapable of sustaining blocks late in games (surprising - or maybe it isn't - that he was the weak link late rather than Moore). All those things made it more difficult than Lance.

At the end of the day, his performance was not adequate for the starting QB on a competitive team. But it's really hard for a rookie to come in and flourish in that situation. Especially if we lose this upcoming week, falling three - and realistically four - games out of first in the division, I don't see much downside to letting him play out the string. I don't think we'll see that, but we should. If we fall to 2-3, as seems entirely likely, we aren't making a SB run unless Lance plays and suddenly becomes electric.

If Lance's accuracy issues are a result in improper mechanics, I would argue Lance starting will actually set him back or delay fixing those issues. In game reps are not where you fix mechanical issues. If he were the start the rest of the season those issues are going to be pushed back to the offseason.

Mixed bag. I think his biggest issue is consistent mechanics, and getting used to the NFL game will help with that. I just don't know how much teams work on fundamentals with QBs during the season these days. It seems like all these guys use the offseason to work on that. I suppose there's a chance of him getting bad habits, but I don't think it's a major concern. The most important thing for him is going to getting used to seeing NFL defenses, the speed of the game, etc.

If you are a starting QB, I just don't see how you can work with QBs on those things during the season. Between film study and practice there isn't much in the way of time to work on anything. I can tell you from experience fixing mechanics is not easy. I competed in martial arts not football but really fixing these issues is similar. You have to take time practicing to do it correctly and stop doing it incorrectly. Really what you are doing is training your mind as much as your body to make the change. If you don't have it down completely, under pressure you will revert back to what you've done naturally before without even thinking about it. My instructor used to always say it is much easier to get it right at the start than it is fixing it later. In football practice you are at least trying to simulate game conditions. Mechanics are worked on with baseball pitchers in season all the time. Bumgardner in 2012. But in MLB, the pitcher can just miss a start and can be isolated to work on his issues for a long period. That won't work for a starting QB.

[Jikkle]

Lance is still entirely a work in progress, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very worried about his accuracy, especially in the short term. But I think he needs reps to sort those things out.

The situation he was in late in the game cuts both ways. Yes, he was facing a somewhat softer defense, and he had the benefit of being in clear four-down territory much of the time which enabled him to extend drives that otherwise would have fizzled. But he also was in obvious passing situations for much of the fourth quarter, which eliminates a lot of the benefit of having him at QB. They couldn't effectively run the option stuff. They couldn't really run play action. And Mike McGlinchey suddenly remembered that he's Mike McGlinchey, and is constitutionally incapable of sustaining blocks late in games (surprising - or maybe it isn't - that he was the weak link late rather than Moore). All those things made it more difficult than Lance.

At the end of the day, his performance was not adequate for the starting QB on a competitive team. But it's really hard for a rookie to come in and flourish in that situation. Especially if we lose this upcoming week, falling three - and realistically four - games out of first in the division, I don't see much downside to letting him play out the string. I don't think we'll see that, but we should. If we fall to 2-3, as seems entirely likely, we aren't making a SB run unless Lance plays and suddenly becomes electric.

If Lance's accuracy issues are a result in improper mechanics, I would argue Lance starting will actually set him back or delay fixing those issues. In game reps are not where you fix mechanical issues. If he were the start the rest of the season those issues are going to be pushed back to the offseason.

Mixed bag. I think his biggest issue is consistent mechanics, and getting used to the NFL game will help with that. I just don't know how much teams work on fundamentals with QBs during the season these days. It seems like all these guys use the offseason to work on that. I suppose there's a chance of him getting bad habits, but I don't think it's a major concern. The most important thing for him is going to getting used to seeing NFL defenses, the speed of the game, etc.

I'm pretty much of this position as well.

His mechanics are going to be what they are and any serious work won't occur until the offseason. Now that he doesn't have to worry about the draft process, seems like he got connected to other groups that work with QBs through the process, and will have a season of football under his belt irregardless the amount he plays during the season I expect he'll make strides in terms of his mechanics. Clearly he knows it's an issue as he did spend a good deal of time working on them this past offseason so it's just a matter of him putting in more work after the season is over.

The benefit of playing him will be upstairs in the mental part. He strikes me as someone with all the tools needed just needs experience using them and more importantly trusting them. Kinda like a kid riding a bike without training wheels the first time it's wobbly and the kid is uncertain about doing it but the more they ride it the more that gain confidence they can do it.