The Brock Purdy Thread

[zman1]

One thing I love about watching Purdy play is that in every game there are one or two exciting and unexpected plays that he makes because of his instincts and quickness. This last game in the 4th he had 3rd and 12 and scrambled out of the pocket. Two steelers were closing in on him from the left and right and it looked like he would have to slide short of the first down or get crushed. But he realized he had just enough to squeeze by and easily got the first. And came up with a big old grin on his face.

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[Big J]

Dude, I was with you on Trey being kinda screwed and > Darnold, but you keep underrating Purdy as a game manager when he routinely takes intermediate shots when shorter is available. He also routinely buys time for intermediate and even long second windows to open up, he’s throwing 50/50 balls despite no starter on the team with the possible exception of Kittle having shown much history of winning those, and literally every NFL round table is talking about how aggressive Kyle’s game plan suddenly is with Purdy. One of the best defensive HC’s in recent history had all offseason to study him, plan accordingly and despite the right side of the OL getting beat like a drum Purdy sliced and diced. And this game’s offence was almost entirely Purdy’s arm and the running game; YAC wasn’t.

But more you keep talking like proposing that the opposite of what he’s done literally every game he’s played in and not blown his arm out is less likely than what you imagine his future play will be. That’s not reasonable. Saying you need more time before believing that he’ll keep doing what he’s done every game is getting closer to unreasonable, but still viable. Saying that his play will certainly be what it has never yet been feels like you’re just grinding an axe. We both wish Trey was still here, but don’t let that blind you to how impressive Purdy is playing.

And it’s not like Foles throwing bombs into baskets, it’s not unrepeatable, almost everything Purdy’s doing comes from reading and understanding coverages and where X means Y is open, etc. and then just basic accuracy, plus the ability to buy time with his ridiculous short area speed. None of that just goes away. Will he increasingly see different looks? Prbably some, but like I said no one is going to have more time to try and make him do what they don’t think he can do than Tomlin just had. Not telling you to buy in, your take, but I’m suggesting constantly yelling ‘sell, sell, sell’ is seeming a bit odd. Try just watching what he does, not what we wish Lance was doing. I think there’s a very good chance we got something here. Maybe not a guy who Carrie’s us when the surrounding talent falls away, but right here, right now, the way he’s playing we’re probably the best team in the league. Enjoy it.

I can’t enjoy it because I’ve already seen the outcome of what happens on this team with a guy who has a similar skill set. Sure they win a bunch of regular season games, but don’t have enough to take out the big boys in the playoffs. Purdy is a cute little underdog story, but he’s limited. Why did Kyle trade 3 firsts for a qb who had elite physical traits?

I mean, you could argue it's because he's a bad personnel guy. All else being equal, you'd of course rather have the guy with the superior skill set. But QB play is about hitting certain benchmarks and then showing you can do more. Can you read a defense and see the field? Can you get rid of the ball quickly and within rhythm? Can you make plays under pressure? Do you recognize "NFL open"? Can you hit open receivers accurately and in stride? Once you can do those things, then we get to the next steps. Can you extend the play? Can you threaten all areas of the field with your arm? Can you hurt a team with your legs?

But if a guy can't hit those initial benchmarks, it doesn't matter if he can hit the later ones. And that's where Lance fell well short of Purdy. As with many, I think he deserved more of a chance. But circumstances intervened. There's no doubt that Purdy is better than Lance right now, and the odds of Lance ever hitting the level that Purdy has already hit to date are pretty small at this point.

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

[CrimsonCrew]

I can’t enjoy it because I’ve already seen the outcome of what happens on this team with a guy who has a similar skill set. Sure they win a bunch of regular season games, but don’t have enough to take out the big boys in the playoffs. Purdy is a cute little underdog story, but he’s limited. Why did Kyle trade 3 firsts for a qb who had elite physical traits?

I mean, you could argue it's because he's a bad personnel guy. All else being equal, you'd of course rather have the guy with the superior skill set. But QB play is about hitting certain benchmarks and then showing you can do more. Can you read a defense and see the field? Can you get rid of the ball quickly and within rhythm? Can you make plays under pressure? Do you recognize "NFL open"? Can you hit open receivers accurately and in stride? Once you can do those things, then we get to the next steps. Can you extend the play? Can you threaten all areas of the field with your arm? Can you hurt a team with your legs?

But if a guy can't hit those initial benchmarks, it doesn't matter if he can hit the later ones. And that's where Lance fell well short of Purdy. As with many, I think he deserved more of a chance. But circumstances intervened. There's no doubt that Purdy is better than Lance right now, and the odds of Lance ever hitting the level that Purdy has already hit to date are pretty small at this point.

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

I agree. But some of this has to be on Lance. He didn't show the growth he needed to, and there was an awful lot of bad when he played before there was some good.

[Pattersonca65]

I can’t enjoy it because I’ve already seen the outcome of what happens on this team with a guy who has a similar skill set. Sure they win a bunch of regular season games, but don’t have enough to take out the big boys in the playoffs. Purdy is a cute little underdog story, but he’s limited. Why did Kyle trade 3 firsts for a qb who had elite physical traits?

I mean, you could argue it's because he's a bad personnel guy. All else being equal, you'd of course rather have the guy with the superior skill set. But QB play is about hitting certain benchmarks and then showing you can do more. Can you read a defense and see the field? Can you get rid of the ball quickly and within rhythm? Can you make plays under pressure? Do you recognize "NFL open"? Can you hit open receivers accurately and in stride? Once you can do those things, then we get to the next steps. Can you extend the play? Can you threaten all areas of the field with your arm? Can you hurt a team with your legs?

But if a guy can't hit those initial benchmarks, it doesn't matter if he can hit the later ones. And that's where Lance fell well short of Purdy. As with many, I think he deserved more of a chance. But circumstances intervened. There's no doubt that Purdy is better than Lance right now, and the odds of Lance ever hitting the level that Purdy has already hit to date are pretty small at this point.

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

[Pattersonca65]

I can’t enjoy it because I’ve already seen the outcome of what happens on this team with a guy who has a similar skill set. Sure they win a bunch of regular season games, but don’t have enough to take out the big boys in the playoffs. Purdy is a cute little underdog story, but he’s limited. Why did Kyle trade 3 firsts for a qb who had elite physical traits?

I mean, you could argue it's because he's a bad personnel guy. All else being equal, you'd of course rather have the guy with the superior skill set. But QB play is about hitting certain benchmarks and then showing you can do more. Can you read a defense and see the field? Can you get rid of the ball quickly and within rhythm? Can you make plays under pressure? Do you recognize "NFL open"? Can you hit open receivers accurately and in stride? Once you can do those things, then we get to the next steps. Can you extend the play? Can you threaten all areas of the field with your arm? Can you hurt a team with your legs?

But if a guy can't hit those initial benchmarks, it doesn't matter if he can hit the later ones. And that's where Lance fell well short of Purdy. As with many, I think he deserved more of a chance. But circumstances intervened. There's no doubt that Purdy is better than Lance right now, and the odds of Lance ever hitting the level that Purdy has already hit to date are pretty small at this point.

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

[CrimsonCrew]

One thing I love about watching Purdy play is that in every game there are one or two exciting and unexpected plays that he makes because of his instincts and quickness. This last game in the 4th he had 3rd and 12 and scrambled out of the pocket. Two steelers were closing in on him from the left and right and it looked like he would have to slide short of the first down or get crushed. But he realized he had just enough to squeeze by and easily got the first. And came up with a big old grin on his face.

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Yeah, Purdy certainly doesn't have elite speed, but he has excellent acceleration (90th percentile; 0.04 seconds faster than Justin Fields and 0.02 slower than Anthony Richardson).

[CrimsonCrew]

Re: the handling of Lance, since this seems inevitable to avoid, my biggest gripes were with the early trade up without knowing who they were trading for, taking a tremendous project in Lance, and then giving up on him when he showed - shockingly - that he needed time to develop. The process was flawed at every step.

But Lance wasn't a very good prospect IMO, and he showed a lot of the weaknesses that were there in his college tape if you really watched it. Yes, he showed some improvement and I really wish we had a chance to see more, but he was a guy with a ton of questions coming out who probably should not have been taken third overall, and certainly not by a team with immediate SB aspirations.

[Big J]

I mean, you could argue it's because he's a bad personnel guy. All else being equal, you'd of course rather have the guy with the superior skill set. But QB play is about hitting certain benchmarks and then showing you can do more. Can you read a defense and see the field? Can you get rid of the ball quickly and within rhythm? Can you make plays under pressure? Do you recognize "NFL open"? Can you hit open receivers accurately and in stride? Once you can do those things, then we get to the next steps. Can you extend the play? Can you threaten all areas of the field with your arm? Can you hurt a team with your legs?

But if a guy can't hit those initial benchmarks, it doesn't matter if he can hit the later ones. And that's where Lance fell well short of Purdy. As with many, I think he deserved more of a chance. But circumstances intervened. There's no doubt that Purdy is better than Lance right now, and the odds of Lance ever hitting the level that Purdy has already hit to date are pretty small at this point.

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

[CrimsonCrew]

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

Yes, but you also have to show SOMETHING. Lance's preseason game against the Raiders was as bad as it gets. He was indecisive, he took sacks he shouldn't have, he missed open receivers repeatedly, and he turned the ball over (and should have turned it over more).

In both preseason games, he put the ball in danger far too often. That's what he really couldn't afford. You can forgive him for taking a couple bad sacks in his first game back after an injury. You can forgive him for struggling to see the field like an established vet (or, you know, Brock Purdy). But he threw the ball to the other team like six times in less than a full game of preseason action. That sank him. And maybe it should have. It was really bad.

And Lance repeatedly showed an inability to protect himself running with the ball. He got hurt when he was blown up on an outside run against the Cards. He showed - and discussed - that he wasn't really comfortable sliding, and he hurt his leg in part because he did like a half-slide. I'm not prepared to say it's his fault, per se, but the coach can't do that stuff for him. RGIII never learned to protect himself, and that's arguably what cost him his career.

[Pattersonca65]

Lance never hit those benchmarks because he never had a chance to develop and breathe. The guy barely played before he was traded away.

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

[Big J]

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

[zman1]

I was all for Lance being drafted on hearing that he had a great arm and legs. I envisioned someone like Russell who so many times broke out of a sure sack to run 30 yards on 4th and 28 or throw a 50 yard bomb. I never saw a hint of any big play ability from Lance. Maybe he will become a competent quarterback but not like be special.

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[zman1]

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

You make it sound like there was a evil conspiracy against Lance.

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[zman1]

One thing I love about watching Purdy play is that in every game there are one or two exciting and unexpected plays that he makes because of his instincts and quickness. This last game in the 4th he had 3rd and 12 and scrambled out of the pocket. Two steelers were closing in on him from the left and right and it looked like he would have to slide short of the first down or get crushed. But he realized he had just enough to squeeze by and easily got the first. And came up with a big old grin on his face.

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Yeah, Purdy certainly doesn't have elite speed, but he has excellent acceleration (90th percentile; 0.04 seconds faster than Justin Fields and 0.02 slower than Anthony Richardson).

That is cool to know. Quickness is probably more important to a quarterback than top end speed.

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[Pattersonca65]

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

Lance was handed the job after Jimmy G left and failed to impress the coaching staff. Picks mean nothing in camp.

[Big J]

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

Lance was handed the job after Jimmy G left and failed to impress the coaching staff. Picks mean nothing in camp.

Yes, he was handed the keys and got injured after only playing 5 quarters. All QBs can have a bad 5 quarter stretch. Especially young guns who are raw as hell. If picks mean nothing in camp then why were Lance's camp & preseason picks held against him so much?

[Pattersonca65]

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

Lance was handed the job after Jimmy G left and failed to impress the coaching staff. Picks mean nothing in camp.

Yes, he was handed the keys and got injured after only playing 5 quarters. All QBs can have a bad 5 quarter stretch. Especially young guns who are raw as hell. If picks mean nothing in camp then why were Lance's camp & preseason picks held against him so much?

He showed poorly enough throughout camp the coaches didn't even trust him to throw the ball. You are the one making an issue of Lance's picks more than anyone here. Lance's issues went well beyond him throwing picks in practice

[Pattersonca65]

Why one should not harp on training camp picks

https://www.businessinsider.com/aaron-rodgers-throws-interceptions-in-practices-2015-8

[CrimsonCrew]

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

There was time to show growth during all the work done during the off-season mini and training camps. The gave him the keys to the car and he couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it.

He wasn't given the keys to the car. Purdy was anointed QB1 and thew a ton of picks in camp and was never once demoted.

In Lance's second season, Garoppolo didn't play in the offseason. Nate Sudfeld was the backup QB. If that isn't being given the keys, I don't know what is. He struggled in his first game, though I thought there were some bright spots (I have done an exhaustive review of that game in another thread, possibly the Trey Lance thread). And he was injured early in his second.

But as others have said, his experience wasn't limited to that. He had an entire offseason and preseason as the guy. And all reports are that he wasn't very good. Now, look, we have some reason to believe that the finger affected his throwing, but that was an opportunity to develop in other areas, even if his mechanics were problematic. When he got back in the mix, he didn't show any signs of growth beyond improved mechanics.

As for Purdy being anointed, that's laughable in comparison to Lance, who was literally handed the job in year two. Purdy got an opportunity, and look what he's done with it. Came in early against a hot playoff-contender when Garoppolo went down and balled out. Went undefeated in games he started and finished. The team has scored 30+ points in every regular season game he's played except the one he played in obvious pain with broken ribs - and which we still won by two scores. He is setting records for his efficiency. There is absolutely no question that he earned the starting spot this year. Some INTs in practice, when he hasn't shown a tendency to do that in real games (while Trey very much did), are all but meaningless.

And look, maybe Trey could have forced the issue with excellent play in the offseason and preseason. Instead, we got really bad play the first time he saw live action. Why should we hand the job to Trey - who can throw it 60 yards downfield, but isn't very likely to put it close to his receiver - instead of Purdy, who is absolutely lethal from behind the LOS to 30 yards downfield?

And yet again, I was pulling hard for Lance this offseason. I was actually almost pleased that Purdy was hurt and he would get some chances. But he didn't do enough. Maybe some day he will, but that's not this team's timetable. And no one with a brain in their head thinks there is any comparison between Purdy and Lance right now. So get over it already.

[Pattersonca65]

Lance was with the team for a couple of seasons including offseason work, practices, was handed the starting job and couldn't get it done. The coaching staff saw it wasn't going to happen and moved on

He couldn’t get it done because he was hurt 5 quarters after he was named the starter. The best way to develop in this league is to play actual live games that matter.

Yes, but you also have to show SOMETHING. Lance's preseason game against the Raiders was as bad as it gets. He was indecisive, he took sacks he shouldn't have, he missed open receivers repeatedly, and he turned the ball over (and should have turned it over more).

In both preseason games, he put the ball in danger far too often. That's what he really couldn't afford. You can forgive him for taking a couple bad sacks in his first game back after an injury. You can forgive him for struggling to see the field like an established vet (or, you know, Brock Purdy). But he threw the ball to the other team like six times in less than a full game of preseason action. That sank him. And maybe it should have. It was really bad.

And Lance repeatedly showed an inability to protect himself running with the ball. He got hurt when he was blown up on an outside run against the Cards. He showed - and discussed - that he wasn't really comfortable sliding, and he hurt his leg in part because he did like a half-slide. I'm not prepared to say it's his fault, per se, but the coach can't do that stuff for him. RGIII never learned to protect himself, and that's arguably what cost him his career.

What is somewhat telling is that best offer we know of for Lance was a 4th round pick and that came from an owner who made the trade without even seeking input from his own coaching staff.