The Trey Lance thread

[Big J]

What expectations was Lance facing this year? He was, at best, the #2 QB unless Purdy suffered a setback.

He was getting criticized left & right. People calling him a bust, ect. In practice he wasn't getting reps, and every play in preseason was getting over analyzed. With his draft position he was expected to be the guy who put the team over the top and could do things that Jimmy couldn't and win the team a ring. Since he hadn't had a chance to play the pressure had just built up to an unreasonable level.

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

[Pattersonca65]

He was getting criticized left & right. People calling him a bust, ect. In practice he wasn't getting reps, and every play in preseason was getting over analyzed. With his draft position he was expected to be the guy who put the team over the top and could do things that Jimmy couldn't and win the team a ring. Since he hadn't had a chance to play the pressure had just built up to an unreasonable level.

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Lance is not oozing with physical talent. It is a myth. Potential over the moon? LMAO. His running ability was not as advertised coming from college. He has been inaccurate coming out of college and far from understanding the NFL game. He can throw the ball 70 yards. Big deal. Smart money shows he will be an average QB in the NFL at best. He looked in college against 2nd level college talent.

[Big J]

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Lance is not oozing with physical talent. It is a myth. Potential over the moon? LMAO. His running ability was not as advertised coming from college. He has been inaccurate coming out of college and far from understanding the NFL game. He can throw the ball 70 yards. Big deal. Smart money shows he will be an average QB in the NFL at best. He looked in college against 2nd level college talent.

We never really saw his running ability on full display. I remember in his rookie year he ran some of those Taysom Hill goal line plays and looked pretty good doing it. The kid just looked slow because the game was going a mile a minute for him. Once it slows down he has the ability to be a young Dante Culpepper type.

[Pattersonca65]

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Lance is not oozing with physical talent. It is a myth. Potential over the moon? LMAO. His running ability was not as advertised coming from college. He has been inaccurate coming out of college and far from understanding the NFL game. He can throw the ball 70 yards. Big deal. Smart money shows he will be an average QB in the NFL at best. He looked in college against 2nd level college talent.

We never really saw his running ability on full display. I remember in his rookie year he ran some of those Taysom Hill goal line plays and looked pretty good doing it. The kid just looked slow because the game was going a mile a minute for him. Once it slows down he has the ability to be a young Dante Culpepper type.

We saw enough of his running. He isn't going to get any faster. He isn't enough to get around the edge. He isn't going to be a lamar jackson, Steve Young runner. In college he would run over smaller defensive players which he can't do in the NFL

[CrimsonCrew]

He was getting criticized left & right. People calling him a bust, ect. In practice he wasn't getting reps, and every play in preseason was getting over analyzed. With his draft position he was expected to be the guy who put the team over the top and could do things that Jimmy couldn't and win the team a ring. Since he hadn't had a chance to play the pressure had just built up to an unreasonable level.

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Again, if Kyle is such a miracle worker, it's pretty damning that Trey Lance still looked pretty darn bad three years in.

Lance has some legit physical tools, though he's not truly elite in any one area. He has good size, but he's not Cam Newton. He's got a strong arm, but shaky accuracy. He has enough athleticism and some physicality, but he's not Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. The problem is, because he's pretty good but not great in all of these areas, he doesn't really have a calling card he can rely on.

Lance can't just do it with his legs the way Justin Fields sometimes does. He certainly can't do it all with his arm. The thing he seems to be best at in terms of passing is throwing crossers in the deep middle. It just so happens that that's also what Purdy does best, at least in terms of recognizing and attacking Ds to that area. And Purdy is clearly superior in terms of pocket presence, short- and mid-range accuracy, anticipation, vision, recognition, etc., so he does literally everything else better except maybe the deep balls in stride to receivers, which isn't exactly a Lance strength, either. Hell, Purdy's arguably even been a better scrambler to date.

I have pulled for Lance since he joined the team, and especially this year. I was praying that things would click for him this offseason, for his sake and the team's. I won't root for him to succeed as a Cowboy, but I won't root against him either (unless he's playing the Niner), and I hope Trey Lance the human being gets another shot at some point and can do something with it. But he showed very little in two years and a preseason. Lots of excuses for it, some more valid than others, but he's got to own his own failures, too. And again, lack of very basic recognition - we're not talking blitz recognition, disguised coverages, last-minute or post-snap shifts by the D, etc., just a straight-up cover two with a four-man rush - in year three is a huge strike.

[CrimsonCrew]

Lance is not oozing with physical talent. It is a myth. Potential over the moon? LMAO. His running ability was not as advertised coming from college. He has been inaccurate coming out of college and far from understanding the NFL game. He can throw the ball 70 yards. Big deal. Smart money shows he will be an average QB in the NFL at best. He looked in college against 2nd level college talent.

We never really saw his running ability on full display. I remember in his rookie year he ran some of those Taysom Hill goal line plays and looked pretty good doing it. The kid just looked slow because the game was going a mile a minute for him. Once it slows down he has the ability to be a young Dante Culpepper type.

We saw enough of his running. He isn't going to get any faster. He isn't enough to get around the edge. He isn't going to be a lamar jackson, Steve Young runner. In college he would run over smaller defensive players which he can't do in the NFL

Yeah, I think there's some room for improvement as the game slows for him mentally, but in terms of getting out of the pocket, scrambling, etc., Purdy's acceleration sure appears better.

[Pattersonca65]

We never really saw his running ability on full display. I remember in his rookie year he ran some of those Taysom Hill goal line plays and looked pretty good doing it. The kid just looked slow because the game was going a mile a minute for him. Once it slows down he has the ability to be a young Dante Culpepper type.

We saw enough of his running. He isn't going to get any faster. He isn't enough to get around the edge. He isn't going to be a lamar jackson, Steve Young runner. In college he would run over smaller defensive players which he can't do in the NFL

Yeah, I think there's some room for improvement as the game slows for him mentally, but in terms of getting out of the pocket, scrambling, etc., Purdy's acceleration sure appears better.

And Purdy isn't going to make a living as a running QB. Lance can use his legs to extend plays and run for some yardage after drop backs if defenses leave a good opening for him, but he is going to dominate with his legs.

[Big J]

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Again, if Kyle is such a miracle worker, it's pretty damning that Trey Lance still looked pretty darn bad three years in.

Lance has some legit physical tools, though he's not truly elite in any one area. He has good size, but he's not Cam Newton. He's got a strong arm, but shaky accuracy. He has enough athleticism and some physicality, but he's not Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. The problem is, because he's pretty good but not great in all of these areas, he doesn't really have a calling card he can rely on.

Lance can't just do it with his legs the way Justin Fields sometimes does. He certainly can't do it all with his arm. The thing he seems to be best at in terms of passing is throwing crossers in the deep middle. It just so happens that that's also what Purdy does best, at least in terms of recognizing and attacking Ds to that area. And Purdy is clearly superior in terms of pocket presence, short- and mid-range accuracy, anticipation, vision, recognition, etc., so he does literally everything else better except maybe the deep balls in stride to receivers, which isn't exactly a Lance strength, either. Hell, Purdy's arguably even been a better scrambler to date.

I have pulled for Lance since he joined the team, and especially this year. I was praying that things would click for him this offseason, for his sake and the team's. I won't root for him to succeed as a Cowboy, but I won't root against him either (unless he's playing the Niner), and I hope Trey Lance the human being gets another shot at some point and can do something with it. But he showed very little in two years and a preseason. Lots of excuses for it, some more valid than others, but he's got to own his own failures, too. And again, lack of very basic recognition - we're not talking blitz recognition, disguised coverages, last-minute or post-snap shifts by the D, etc., just a straight-up cover two with a four-man rush - in year three is a huge strike.

That's because guys like Purdy/Jimmy/Matt Ryan ect look good in Kyle's system right away. Those guys have completely different strengths & weakness than Trey does. If Trey was put in Greg Roman's system he'd look like the second coming of Kap from day 1. Kyle's system could have worked for Trey, but it has a bigger learning curve for that kind of player, and Kyle would have had to modify it a bit as well.

[CrimsonCrew]

That's because guys like Purdy/Jimmy/Matt Ryan ect look good in Kyle's system right away. Those guys have completely different strengths & weakness than Trey does. If Trey was put in Greg Roman's system he'd look like the second coming of Kap from day 1. Kyle's system could have worked for Trey, but it has a bigger learning curve for that kind of player, and Kyle would have had to modify it a bit as well.

You know, RGIII looked great in Kyle's system right away. I guess the question is why, if almost everyone looks great in Kyle's system (CJ Beathard the only recent example I can think of), was Lance at best mediocre, and at worst really bad?

To me, Lance was always a curious choice given that he did need a lot of work. And for whatever the reason, he maybe didn't get a fair shake. But at the end of the day, he showed little to no improvement in the mental aspect of the game. And that's almost certainly where he lost the FO.

[Pattersonca65]

Yea, but the reason that Purdy has looked good in Kyles system is that it's perfectly suited for him to look good. It requires short passes, quick reads, and not doing anything outside of the box. It's made tons of average QB's look good over the years. That's undeniable, Matty Ass was winning MVPs and going to SB's under him for chrissake. Lance is the kind of guy who is oozing with physical talent, and just needs to learn the ins & outs of the game and his potential will be over the moon. He's not a Jamarcus Russell type talent either who just didn't care.

Again, if Kyle is such a miracle worker, it's pretty damning that Trey Lance still looked pretty darn bad three years in.

Lance has some legit physical tools, though he's not truly elite in any one area. He has good size, but he's not Cam Newton. He's got a strong arm, but shaky accuracy. He has enough athleticism and some physicality, but he's not Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen. The problem is, because he's pretty good but not great in all of these areas, he doesn't really have a calling card he can rely on.

Lance can't just do it with his legs the way Justin Fields sometimes does. He certainly can't do it all with his arm. The thing he seems to be best at in terms of passing is throwing crossers in the deep middle. It just so happens that that's also what Purdy does best, at least in terms of recognizing and attacking Ds to that area. And Purdy is clearly superior in terms of pocket presence, short- and mid-range accuracy, anticipation, vision, recognition, etc., so he does literally everything else better except maybe the deep balls in stride to receivers, which isn't exactly a Lance strength, either. Hell, Purdy's arguably even been a better scrambler to date.

I have pulled for Lance since he joined the team, and especially this year. I was praying that things would click for him this offseason, for his sake and the team's. I won't root for him to succeed as a Cowboy, but I won't root against him either (unless he's playing the Niner), and I hope Trey Lance the human being gets another shot at some point and can do something with it. But he showed very little in two years and a preseason. Lots of excuses for it, some more valid than others, but he's got to own his own failures, too. And again, lack of very basic recognition - we're not talking blitz recognition, disguised coverages, last-minute or post-snap shifts by the D, etc., just a straight-up cover two with a four-man rush - in year three is a huge strike.

That's because guys like Purdy/Jimmy/Matt Ryan ect look good in Kyle's system right away. Those guys have completely different strengths & weakness than Trey does. If Trey was put in Greg Roman's system he'd look like the second coming of Kap from day 1. Kyle's system could have worked for Trey, but it has a bigger learning curve for that kind of player, and Kyle would have had to modify it a bit as well.

Kyle's system is probably one of the worst systems for Lance. He is better better suited to a deep drop passing game with slower developing plays. Yea, he might end up being the second coming of Kap which is absolutely the worst possible fit for Shanahan.

[Pattersonca65]

That's because guys like Purdy/Jimmy/Matt Ryan ect look good in Kyle's system right away. Those guys have completely different strengths & weakness than Trey does. If Trey was put in Greg Roman's system he'd look like the second coming of Kap from day 1. Kyle's system could have worked for Trey, but it has a bigger learning curve for that kind of player, and Kyle would have had to modify it a bit as well.

You know, RGIII looked great in Kyle's system right away. I guess the question is why, if almost everyone looks great in Kyle's system (CJ Beathard the only recent example I can think of), was Lance at best mediocre, and at worst really bad?

To me, Lance was always a curious choice given that he did need a lot of work. And for whatever the reason, he maybe didn't get a fair shake. But at the end of the day, he showed little to no improvement in the mental aspect of the game. And that's almost certainly where he lost the FO.

This is from a former NFL scout around draft time. Somewhat harsh but it looks like quite a bit he has said has turned out to be true.

https://nfldraftdiamonds.com/2021/03/trey-lance-20/

[Big J]

That's because guys like Purdy/Jimmy/Matt Ryan ect look good in Kyle's system right away. Those guys have completely different strengths & weakness than Trey does. If Trey was put in Greg Roman's system he'd look like the second coming of Kap from day 1. Kyle's system could have worked for Trey, but it has a bigger learning curve for that kind of player, and Kyle would have had to modify it a bit as well.

You know, RGIII looked great in Kyle's system right away. I guess the question is why, if almost everyone looks great in Kyle's system (CJ Beathard the only recent example I can think of), was Lance at best mediocre, and at worst really bad?

To me, Lance was always a curious choice given that he did need a lot of work. And for whatever the reason, he maybe didn't get a fair shake. But at the end of the day, he showed little to no improvement in the mental aspect of the game. And that's almost certainly where he lost the FO.

RGIII looked great in the system, but that was also pre-knee injury RGIII, and he ran a 4.4 40. Pre knee injury RGIII would have looked great in any system.