The Trey Lance thread

[Big J]

Funny how everyone here is trashing him now that he's no longer on the team.

[CrimsonCrew]

I've said repeatedly that I don't want to come off as all Trey Lance hate. I adamantly disagreed with his handling and the trade. But when we talk about needing more reps, needing experience, etc., we also have to consider that he wasn't doing the things he could have done and needed to do. Not knocking the guy when I say he wasn't doing those things. I can't explain why it wasn't clicking for him. He's supposed to be an incredibly hard worker, film junky (unlike Kaepernick, who was a very hard worker, but maybe more in the weight room than the film room), etc. And if you did an examination of his second preseason game, I'm sure it looked somewhat better - though it started out pretty rough.

But to not recognize a vanilla, zone cover-two in your third year in the league and know where to look for the opening? That's really bad. And Trey Lance deserves to be criticized for that, IMO. He looked as bad as I've seen a guy look in that first preseason game. And that's the opposite of what he needed to show the coaching staff.

[Big J]

I've said repeatedly that I don't want to come off as all Trey Lance hate. I adamantly disagreed with his handling and the trade. But when we talk about needing more reps, needing experience, etc., we also have to consider that he wasn't doing the things he could have done and needed to do. Not knocking the guy when I say he wasn't doing those things. I can't explain why it wasn't clicking for him. He's supposed to be an incredibly hard worker, film junky (unlike Kaepernick, who was a very hard worker, but maybe more in the weight room than the film room), etc. And if you did an examination of his second preseason game, I'm sure it looked somewhat better - though it started out pretty rough.

But to not recognize a vanilla, zone cover-two in your third year in the league and know where to look for the opening? That's really bad. And Trey Lance deserves to be criticized for that, IMO. He looked as bad as I've seen a guy look in that first preseason game. And that's the opposite of what he needed to show the coaching staff.

I mean, I could get behind this idea if he'd been given a longer leash and regular season games to learn all of this like Alex Smith did. No matter how many times you watch something on film it's completely different when you are doing it in regular season games that count.

[CrimsonCrew]

I've said repeatedly that I don't want to come off as all Trey Lance hate. I adamantly disagreed with his handling and the trade. But when we talk about needing more reps, needing experience, etc., we also have to consider that he wasn't doing the things he could have done and needed to do. Not knocking the guy when I say he wasn't doing those things. I can't explain why it wasn't clicking for him. He's supposed to be an incredibly hard worker, film junky (unlike Kaepernick, who was a very hard worker, but maybe more in the weight room than the film room), etc. And if you did an examination of his second preseason game, I'm sure it looked somewhat better - though it started out pretty rough.

But to not recognize a vanilla, zone cover-two in your third year in the league and know where to look for the opening? That's really bad. And Trey Lance deserves to be criticized for that, IMO. He looked as bad as I've seen a guy look in that first preseason game. And that's the opposite of what he needed to show the coaching staff.

I mean, I could get behind this idea if he'd been given a longer leash and regular season games to learn all of this like Alex Smith did. No matter how many times you watch something on film it's completely different when you are doing it in regular season games that count.

Well, he couldn't stay healthy, and some of that is on Trey Lance not doing a better job of protecting himself. And not demonstrating to Shanahan that he could flourish as a passer rather than primarily as a runner.

I've got a pretty lengthy rant earlier in this thread about how Lance isn't entirely - or maybe even largely - to blame for this. In short, I think the finger injury was a bigger issue than most people realized, which adversely impacted Shanahan's faith in Lance, which then caused Shanahan to run him a ton, which then led to him getting hurt. That's really no one's fault (pre finger injury knowledge, I placed a fair bit of blame on Shanahan, but we now know that Lance was even less accurate than he usually is last offseason), but that was the situation going into this year.

So what did Lance have to do to truly compete? For the starting job? Probably nothing he could have done. Brock Purdy checked off Shanahan's most important boxes, and his play to start this year has largely vindicated that decision. He was going to start if he was healthy, and he should have.

But to compete for the backup spot? To dominate the snaps in the preseason (as I think he should have regardless, but...)? He needed to really get it on paper (or on film), and at least be able to start applying that on the field. He needed to show that he could instantly recognize coverages, know what the D was trying to do, know where to look for the open man, etc. And boy, did he flail when he got the chance.

He didn't demonstrate an understanding of defensive concepts. He didn't show an anticipation or knowledge of defensive assignments within a certain scheme. He didn't look to the right player, and when he did, he didn't pull the trigger. He took a bunch of sacks he shouldn't have taken - even though he was under decent pressure. He threw a ton of turnover-worthy passes. And I've got to say, even his solid play to end the Denver game doesn't look all that good now in light of what Mike White just did to them after Tua finished flaying them alive. And Lance was going against the guys who Denver cut.

From the FO's position, they handed Lance the reins last year. He a few moments where he showed glimpses, but was also pretty shaky in limited action. He lost to the worst team in the league in his lone start. This year, you've got former NFL players absolutely befuddled by his lack of recognition as a third-year pro. You can't have that. I can give him something of a pass on his feel in the pocket, taking a while to warm up to "NFL open." Those are things that can be hard to improve in practice. I can't give him a pass on not recognizing zone and Cover 2 on a motion play against vanilla defense. Especially when he's coming off two practices against that same defense. That's something any NFL QB should be able to recognize at a bare minimum.

Maybe Lance will blossom at some point, but I'm increasingly skeptical. Some guys just don't get it. And part of that is based on the reports of Lance living on his iPad and watching a ton of film. If he's doing that and still not seeing basic stuff, combined with his mechanical and accuracy issues, it's not a good sign for his longterm prospects.

[Big J]

I think the issue was that he felt like he had to be perfect on every single play. That kind of pressure isn’t good for a young guy because it makes them feel like they can’t breathe. They play tight and it makes everything they do look bad. Guys with longer leashes typically play better because they are more relaxed and playing naturally.

[CrimsonCrew]

I think the issue was that he felt like he had to be perfect on every single play. That kind of pressure isn’t good for a young guy because it makes them feel like they can’t breathe. They play tight and it makes everything they do look bad. Guys with longer leashes typically play better because they are more relaxed and playing naturally.

That's fair, but it's also a pretty big inference/assumption. And whatever the reason, his recognition did not appear to be anywhere near where it needed to be.

[Big J]

I think the issue was that he felt like he had to be perfect on every single play. That kind of pressure isn’t good for a young guy because it makes them feel like they can’t breathe. They play tight and it makes everything they do look bad. Guys with longer leashes typically play better because they are more relaxed and playing naturally.

That's fair, but it's also a pretty big inference/assumption. And whatever the reason, his recognition did not appear to be anywhere near where it needed to be.

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

[CrimsonCrew]

I think the issue was that he felt like he had to be perfect on every single play. That kind of pressure isn’t good for a young guy because it makes them feel like they can’t breathe. They play tight and it makes everything they do look bad. Guys with longer leashes typically play better because they are more relaxed and playing naturally.

That's fair, but it's also a pretty big inference/assumption. And whatever the reason, his recognition did not appear to be anywhere near where it needed to be.

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

[Big J]

That's fair, but it's also a pretty big inference/assumption. And whatever the reason, his recognition did not appear to be anywhere near where it needed to be.

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

[Pattersonca65]

That's fair, but it's also a pretty big inference/assumption. And whatever the reason, his recognition did not appear to be anywhere near where it needed to be.

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

Lance showed such little command of the offense that he fell below Darnold on the depth chart.

[CrimsonCrew]

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

If he can't handle expectations, then he really was an awful, awful pick. Purdy faces huge expectations this year, and he certainly isn't buckling. He hasn't face much criticism because he's been remarkably good.

And we're not talking about showing a few flaws. We're talking about him having no idea where the ball should go on an easy pre-snap read.

[Big J]

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

If he can't handle expectations, then he really was an awful, awful pick. Purdy faces huge expectations this year, and he certainly isn't buckling. He hasn't face much criticism because he's been remarkably good.

And we're not talking about showing a few flaws. We're talking about him having no idea where the ball should go on an easy pre-snap read.

Purdy doesn’t face huge expectations though. He’s not being asked to win games for his team. He’s just being asked to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over. If he plays bad then nobody is blaming it on him. They will be blaming Kyle.

[Pattersonca65]

Recognition can be impacted by playing scared **** less. Which I think was the case with him due to the pressure & lack of reps he'd gotten.

Dude, come on. Compare how you talk about Purdy to how you talk about Lance. He's a big boy. He's been watching film. He's been playing in the offseason against a good defense. It's the preseason against mostly reserves. There was pressure, but it was coming off a four-man rush. It was nothing close to what Purdy was facing this past Thursday. Lance had time to make quick decisions and throws, and he froze up. Does that mean he's done in the league? No. But the lack of awareness of what the defense was doing is extremely alarming, and is probably a bigger part of why he's no longer on the team than his less-than-stellar accuracy.

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

Yea Purdy had zero expectations because of where he was drafted. But he hasn't faced criticism because he has played well and team is winning. Lance did not face all that much criticism at first, mostly questions about whether he was ready for the NFL. Lance was drafted number #3 and those expectations come when you are drafted that high. He should stayed in college at least one more year.

[Pattersonca65]

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

If he can't handle expectations, then he really was an awful, awful pick. Purdy faces huge expectations this year, and he certainly isn't buckling. He hasn't face much criticism because he's been remarkably good.

And we're not talking about showing a few flaws. We're talking about him having no idea where the ball should go on an easy pre-snap read.

Purdy doesn’t face huge expectations though. He’s not being asked to win games for his team. He’s just being asked to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over. If he plays bad then nobody is blaming it on him. They will be blaming Kyle.

He has huge expectations now. He is being asked to win games. Not sure where you come up with this stuff. If he plays poorly for a stretch and the team losses he is going to get grilled.

[CrimsonCrew]

Purdy came in with 4 years of college and zero expectations on him. He's faced little to no criticism since he's been on the team. It was a completely different situation than what Lance was up against.

If he can't handle expectations, then he really was an awful, awful pick. Purdy faces huge expectations this year, and he certainly isn't buckling. He hasn't face much criticism because he's been remarkably good.

And we're not talking about showing a few flaws. We're talking about him having no idea where the ball should go on an easy pre-snap read.

Purdy doesn’t face huge expectations though. He’s not being asked to win games for his team. He’s just being asked to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over. If he plays bad then nobody is blaming it on him. They will be blaming Kyle.

Purdy is the QB for a super bowl favorite. His team kicked the #3 overall pick in the draft - a player who cost the team three first round picks and a fourth - to the curb for him. He faces big expectations. He just happens to be meeting them.

And if Purdy isn't facing big expectations, why was Lance? Was more being asked of him last year than to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over?

And for that matter, the game plan seems to have become a fair bit more aggressive with Purdy under center than it did with Garoppolo or Lance in there.

[Big J]

If he can't handle expectations, then he really was an awful, awful pick. Purdy faces huge expectations this year, and he certainly isn't buckling. He hasn't face much criticism because he's been remarkably good.

And we're not talking about showing a few flaws. We're talking about him having no idea where the ball should go on an easy pre-snap read.

Purdy doesn’t face huge expectations though. He’s not being asked to win games for his team. He’s just being asked to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over. If he plays bad then nobody is blaming it on him. They will be blaming Kyle.

Purdy is the QB for a super bowl favorite. His team kicked the #3 overall pick in the draft - a player who cost the team three first round picks and a fourth - to the curb for him. He faces big expectations. He just happens to be meeting them.

And if Purdy isn't facing big expectations, why was Lance? Was more being asked of him last year than to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over?

And for that matter, the game plan seems to have become a fair bit more aggressive with Purdy under center than it did with Garoppolo or Lance in there.

Lance was facing huge expectations this year, not last year. Last year he only played 5 quarters before he got hurt. This year he had tons of pressure on him to play perfect on every single play. He got zero slack. Purdy is playing well, but he's not really being asked to do what a lot of the top level QB's are asked to do.

[CrimsonCrew]

Purdy doesn’t face huge expectations though. He’s not being asked to win games for his team. He’s just being asked to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over. If he plays bad then nobody is blaming it on him. They will be blaming Kyle.

Purdy is the QB for a super bowl favorite. His team kicked the #3 overall pick in the draft - a player who cost the team three first round picks and a fourth - to the curb for him. He faces big expectations. He just happens to be meeting them.

And if Purdy isn't facing big expectations, why was Lance? Was more being asked of him last year than to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over?

And for that matter, the game plan seems to have become a fair bit more aggressive with Purdy under center than it did with Garoppolo or Lance in there.

Lance was facing huge expectations this year, not last year. Last year he only played 5 quarters before he got hurt. This year he had tons of pressure on him to play perfect on every single play. He got zero slack. Purdy is playing well, but he's not really being asked to do what a lot of the top level QB's are asked to do.

What expectations was Lance facing this year? He was, at best, the #2 QB unless Purdy suffered a setback.

[CrimsonCrew]

What are top level QBs being asked to do that Purdy is not doing? Obviously he's not Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson in terms of the run game, but from the pocket (or outside the pocket), with his brain and his arm, it sure seems like he's being asked to do pretty much everything the top guys in the league are.

[Big J]

Purdy is the QB for a super bowl favorite. His team kicked the #3 overall pick in the draft - a player who cost the team three first round picks and a fourth - to the curb for him. He faces big expectations. He just happens to be meeting them.

And if Purdy isn't facing big expectations, why was Lance? Was more being asked of him last year than to follow the game plan and not turn the ball over?

And for that matter, the game plan seems to have become a fair bit more aggressive with Purdy under center than it did with Garoppolo or Lance in there.

Lance was facing huge expectations this year, not last year. Last year he only played 5 quarters before he got hurt. This year he had tons of pressure on him to play perfect on every single play. He got zero slack. Purdy is playing well, but he's not really being asked to do what a lot of the top level QB's are asked to do.

What expectations was Lance facing this year? He was, at best, the #2 QB unless Purdy suffered a setback.

He was getting criticized left & right. People calling him a bust, ect. In practice he wasn't getting reps, and every play in preseason was getting over analyzed. With his draft position he was expected to be the guy who put the team over the top and could do things that Jimmy couldn't and win the team a ring. Since he hadn't had a chance to play the pressure had just built up to an unreasonable level.

[CrimsonCrew]

Lance was facing huge expectations this year, not last year. Last year he only played 5 quarters before he got hurt. This year he had tons of pressure on him to play perfect on every single play. He got zero slack. Purdy is playing well, but he's not really being asked to do what a lot of the top level QB's are asked to do.

What expectations was Lance facing this year? He was, at best, the #2 QB unless Purdy suffered a setback.

He was getting criticized left & right. People calling him a bust, ect. In practice he wasn't getting reps, and every play in preseason was getting over analyzed. With his draft position he was expected to be the guy who put the team over the top and could do things that Jimmy couldn't and win the team a ring. Since he hadn't had a chance to play the pressure had just built up to an unreasonable level.

I think Purdy is under a hell of a lot more pressure at this point than Lance was this year. I agree that he didn't have room for mistakes if he wanted to challenge for the starting job, but that was a product of Purdy's play more than anything else.

And again, if Lance can't handle the pressure of competing to be the #2 QB, then he's never going to be the guy.

I completely agree with you that he should have gotten more reps this offseason and preseason, though he got a lot of reps prior to Purdy returning. But the team's priority had to be getting Purdy ready first and foremost. The Darnold thing, well, it's not clear that Lance staked a claim to that job. He's a slow starter, and he couldn't afford that here. Sometimes a guy can't change who he is. Sometimes he can. We'll see with Lance. But no doubt he failed to capitalize on the opportunities he had, which is basically the polar opposite of what Purdy has done.