GAME #30: HORNETS (7-20) @ LAC (17-12) TUES 12/26—7:30 PM, NBA-TV

[Kelphus]

Sorry about your bet, Tom, but happy to have the win!

Other posters have noted this, I did too, in looking at the game threads certain posters only show up when the team is doing poorly. Those aren't fans. Mentioning no names, but I'm glad to see more basketball talk lately and less sweeping pronouncements of doom.

[madmaxmedia]

From the outset it seemed that the game plan was for Harden to be the guy. And he delivered from minute 1 to minute 48. By the way, he played 40 minutes. LA Times story on the game robbed him of a point, said he only scored 28... he would have had 30 but he missed first of 2 FT's with about 60 seconds left in game, he had 29. His stat line was beastly - 29 points, 50% 3 pointers, 6 boards, 8 assists, 2 steals and one block... with (Tom are you listening) a +20 for the game.

What happens to us in these Kawhi-less games if we hadn't traded for Harden LOL.

[PeteyPablo]

Great win last night. Harden will step in and help win games through out the season , so will Westbrook. We knew Kawhi and PG would miss games and Harden / Westbrook would help.

Clippers sitting in 4th place in the West until the next game.

Mann and Coffey had 4 points each. Zubac with a nice 18 points and 14 rebounds.

Hoping the team brings the defensive energy this Friday against the Grizzlies. Morant has them winning 4 games in a row.

[LamarWho]

We beat a 7-21 team at home, with their best player on the floor, Rozier bricking everything all game long. Thank god our 3 ball was falling last night, even Russ made a couple. Without Kawhi's midrange game, we are in trouble if we don't shoot the 3 well.

Norm has been quiet the last couple of games, hopefully he can get rolling again. Mann and Coffey as our starters were giving us next to nothing offensively.

[playaloc916]

From the outset it seemed that the game plan was for Harden to be the guy. And he delivered from minute 1 to minute 48. By the way, he played 40 minutes. LA Times story on the game robbed him of a point, said he only scored 28... he would have had 30 but he missed first of 2 FT's with about 60 seconds left in game, he had 29. His stat line was beastly - 29 points, 50% 3 pointers, 6 boards, 8 assists, 2 steals and one block... with (Tom are you listening) a +20 for the game.

What happens to us in these Kawhi-less games if we hadn't traded for Harden LOL.

Pain, that's what happens

I think we've accepted that PG will never be a consistent go to guy, so when Kawhi is hurt, a lot of things need to go right. PG can be elite for short stretches, but then will fall back down to his average. He's a guy that will get you buckets, but I don't think he can boost team morale like Kawhi can (via him single handedly taking games over). By trading for Harden, you don't have to hope the Batum's, the Bones', the Russ', etc. will independently have better than usual games to help PG out. Harden has near-elite passing/playmaking, so he can get guys like Zubac more involved. Zu's averaging a career high in points (barely though), and his double-doubles are very welcomed when other guys are off.

And I don't know if Mann is still having lingering effects from his early season injury or not, but his stats this season are pretty ugly. They all played limited minutes, but I might've started Coffey and Brown instead of Coffey and Mann.

[MartinToVaught]

From the outset it seemed that the game plan was for Harden to be the guy. And he delivered from minute 1 to minute 48. By the way, he played 40 minutes. LA Times story on the game robbed him of a point, said he only scored 28... he would have had 30 but he missed first of 2 FT's with about 60 seconds left in game, he had 29. His stat line was beastly - 29 points, 50% 3 pointers, 6 boards, 8 assists, 2 steals and one block... with (Tom are you listening) a +20 for the game.

What happens to us in these Kawhi-less games if we hadn't traded for Harden LOL.

With the way this team was humming with Batum and RoCo, this might have been an easier win than it was. On the other hand, we probably still lose the other games.

[clipperlover]

Great win last night. Harden will step in and help win games through out the season , so will Westbrook. We knew Kawhi and PG would miss games and Harden / Westbrook would help.

Clippers sitting in 4th place in the West until the next game.

Mann and Coffey had 4 points each. Zubac with a nice 18 points and 14 rebounds.

Hoping the team brings the defensive energy this Friday against the Grizzlies. Morant has them winning 4 games in a row.

As I mentioned last week, Griz are not nearly as bad as their record indicates. We are getting them at the worst time. They have Ja back and Smart just came back. They will be a good test. Their main struggles this year have been at home (1-11 without Ja) where they were dominant last year.

Hopefully, Kawhi will be back. I know they said "hip contusion". However, looking at the video, something appears to make Kawhi go down. Did he hit the floor hard and likely bruise himself? Yes. Did he tear a hip ligament prior to hitting the ground? Maybe so.

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Slow down the video and watch his body in the 6 to 7 second time period. He looks like he injured himself before he hit the ground. His thigh looks like it absorbed the fall before the hip. These guys play with such force that sudden movements are all it may take to rip something. Maybe his training to get his knee feeling better left the hip weaker or he wasn't stretching his hip enough. Whenever Kawhi says "I'm Good" he never really is. Wonder if he has a high pain tolerance that prevents him from feeling serious injuries until he swells up.

[nickhx2]

i'm guessing most people feel the same as i do - relieved but also kinda annoyed it was even this close against a bad team missing its best player

that said, i also view this as one of those building block wins that don't seem at all relevant to the end-goal, but my estimation are supremely so. for this team to be the best possible version of itself, it needs to struggle through situations exactly like this in order to (hopefully) get that lightbulb going of "oh ok HERE's the formula for how to win, when factors A, F, G, M, X, and Z are such and such."

last night the primary factors were kawhi being off the floor, paul george on one of his "some good stuff, some meh stuff, but isn't really bringing it" nights, mann off, coffey off, powell off, having to pull a win out of a rough spot, and i'm sure more things i'm not naming. and all this matters because it's gonna happen again, but if the team as a whole has a legitimate growth mindset (which i definitely see), they'll be able to take this kinda win and go "oh yeah, here's how we do it, here's who kinda has to shift their role a bit more to more scoring, more defense" etc. like, we can clearly see that PG isn't really changing his game a whole lot and if you ask me, that's mostly been the case no matter who's in or out of the lineup. and we also can clearly see that harden shifts to more of a scoring option. and that westbrook tries to do more as well.

and the players need to experience all that in real time to make things connect for themselves, because games are played on the court and theory/practice/preparation can only do so much to get the players to the point where they'll actually DO the things they need to do, as opposed to just expecting to do them.

anyway, we need kawhi of course, but i think i'm also pleased to have the team notch this kind of win, in the hopes that it serves as legitimate experience in how to do better in future games.

[esqtvd]

4 points, 1-4 shooting, 1 reb, 0 assts, plus+2?
Ty sticks with his peeps

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[clipperlover]

4 points, 1-4 shooting, 1 reb, 0 assts, plus+2?
Ty sticks with his peeps

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Wow. I hope he is just trying to throw people off. Why would any coach say that about a player? Why tell opponents that they don't need to worry about a particular player on the offensive end?

[esqtvd]

WITH Kawhi, Mann's 6'5" isn't that much of a drawback. But Coffey [6'7"] is no Kawhi and you can't start Powell or Russ [6'1" or so] either.

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[LamarWho]

T-Mann is the new MMSr. Ty Belichick will stick with him despite all the donut stats. Teams will start sagging off from him just like Russ.

[ERClips]

As others have said it’s Harden who will be relied upon to deliver us a win in Kawhi’s absence. Scoring, assists, and his defense has been good too, especially his hands.
PG is just there. Scoring & looking great or turning it over & looking horrible.
I too like Coffey over Mann. I think he can do everything Mann can & will take advantage of any random scoring chances instead of shrinking. Especially right now.
Kobe had a few minutes of excellent D and getting his hands in passing lanes. Thought he contributed well last night

[Wammy Giveaway]

I'm going to throw this idea out there: given the Clipper's inability to produce consistent wins whenever Kawhi Leonard is out, maybe they should do one of two things:

1. Sign a role player whose can keep the Clippers engaged in Leonard-less games. Normally, he's a DNP-CD. Whenever Leonard is out, however, he takes the starting role. A balance between Nicolas Batum and Patrick Beverley. May end up producing zeroes in all stats, but is decent in Preventions (defense, screens, secondary passes) and advanced stats, an energizer bunny without the attitude that would get him teched, flagranted or ejected.

2. Start Russell Westbrook. This is where I'll get all the "no's." If Lue can not let go of the Big 3 motif because he needs the power to win a chip, then put him back in the starting lineup. We all know the Westbrook-Harden starting lineup doesn't work anyone because their skills overlap and there's too much deference, but those losses all had Leonard in the starting lineup. We haven't seen a starting lineup of Westbrook-Harden-George yet. Could force Mann back to the bench and make Theis a starter. Maybe useful once Plumlee has a clean bill of health.

[esqtvd]

I've been the one saying Clipper Nation has been overrating Mann all along. And I'm not going to kick him when he's down either. Unforttunately, at 6'5" he's a tweener--he can't run the point even as well as combo guard Reggie Jackson, can't create his own shot like Powell, and he's a bit small to go banging with forwards.


But he's a decent rotation piece though can't move the needle much, but he doesn't hurt you out there either. Last year his plus/minus was plus+0.1. This year, plus+0.3. T-Mann in a nutshell, folks.


I've been keeping an eye on Coffey because he IS 6'7" and had that great start for an injured PG [18 points] to beat GSW, but really hasn't done much since. He HAS earned rotation minutes ahead of Kobe and especially Tucker--FOR NOW--but his Per 100 Possessions stats are all inferior to Mann's.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=10&PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

I think Amir has earned the chance to compete for some of T-Mann's minutes but Mann has also earned the right to play his way out of them.

[ERClips]

I've been the one saying Clipper Nation has been overrating Mann all along. And I'm not going to kick him when he's down either. Unforttunately, at 6'5" he's a tweener--he can't run the point even as well as combo guard Reggie Jackson, can't create his own shot like Powell, and he's a bit small to go banging with forwards.


But he's a decent rotation piece though not going to move the needle much, but he won't hurt you out there either. Last year his plus/minus on the year was plus+0.1. This year, plus+0.3. T-Mann in a nutshell, folks.

I've been keeping an eye on Coffey because he IS 6'7" and had that great start for an injured PG [18 points] to beat GSW but really hasn't done much since. He HAS earned rotation minutes ahead of Kobe and especially Tucker--FOR NOW--but his Per 100 Possessions stats are all inferior to Mann's.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=10&PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

I think Amir has earned the chance to compete for some of T-Mann's minutes but it's no slam dunk.

I haven’t done a deep dive on their stats so I’m just basing it off of what I’ve seen from both of them lately. That 5th starting position when everyone is healthy looks to be the only tweak to be messed with. But since Mann or Coffey are not necessarily going to huge have impact there is something to be said for sticking with Mann & continuity which seems to be Ty’s preference.
It’s something to talk about at the least.
Without Kawhi all bets are off and you go with the unit that’s playing good in that moment.

[esqtvd]

I'm going to throw this idea out there: given the Clipper's inability to produce consistent wins whenever Kawhi Leonard is out, maybe they should do one of two things:

1. Sign a role player whose can keep the Clippers engaged in Leonard-less games. Normally, he's a DNP-CD. Whenever Leonard is out, however, he takes the starting role. A balance between Nicolas Batum and Patrick Beverley. May end up producing zeroes in all stats, but is decent in Preventions (defense, screens, secondary passes) and advanced stats, an energizer bunny without the attitude that would get him teched, flagranted or ejected.

See posts above. His name is Terance Mann.

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[esqtvd]

I've been the one saying Clipper Nation has been overrating Mann all along. And I'm not going to kick him when he's down either. Unforttunately, at 6'5" he's a tweener--he can't run the point even as well as combo guard Reggie Jackson, can't create his own shot like Powell, and he's a bit small to go banging with forwards.


But he's a decent rotation piece though not going to move the needle much, but he won't hurt you out there either. Last year his plus/minus on the year was plus+0.1. This year, plus+0.3. T-Mann in a nutshell, folks.

I've been keeping an eye on Coffey because he IS 6'7" and had that great start for an injured PG [18 points] to beat GSW but really hasn't done much since. He HAS earned rotation minutes ahead of Kobe and especially Tucker--FOR NOW--but his Per 100 Possessions stats are all inferior to Mann's.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?LastNGames=10&PerMode=Per100Possessions&TeamID=1610612746&dir=A&sort=PLUS_MINUS

I think Amir has earned the chance to compete for some of T-Mann's minutes but it's no slam dunk.

I haven’t done a deep dive on their stats so I’m just basing it off of what I’ve seen from both of them lately. That 5th starting position when everyone is healthy looks to be the only tweak to be messed with. But since Mann or Coffey are not necessarily going to huge have impact there is something to be said for sticking with Mann & continuity which seems to be Ty’s preference.
It’s something to talk about at the least.
Without Kawhi all bets are off and you go with the unit that’s playing good in that moment.

Yah, that's why I did the deep dive. And although I'm accused of being down on T-Mann, all i ever said was that if he got the chance to play, his numbers would NOT improve. And they didn't. You is what you is. In fact, at the moment his numbers are the worst since his rookie year.



But I get so annoyed when some people think they're smarter than the coach and the back-up should be playing instead. So here we go again: Coffey is NOT better than Mann. And what's really ironic is that Ty is giving Amir every chance to prove on the court that he is. Which is what every good coach does.

[madmaxmedia]

It's ironic that everyone was criticizing Ty for not playing Mann more in previous season, and now he's the one defending him. Mann doesn't have enough wiggle for his size, which is why IMO he's only an emergency point guard and is naturally a wing player. But he always has been and still is a great glue guy (glue only works when there are pieces around to glue together.)

I think we can also be realistic about Coffey, when he's shooting well from 3 then those are going to be his outstanding games. But when he's not, he's more or less a guy. He lacks burst to really be an assertive force on offense, he's fine in other areas but not a huge rebounder and not a shutdown defender either. IMO he's fine, average, whatever you want to call it, so a good shooting night will make him a positive and a bad shooting night will essentially negate his contribution on the court.

[ERClips]

It's ironic that everyone was criticizing Ty for not playing Mann more in previous season, and now he's the one defending him. Mann doesn't have enough wiggle for his size, which is why IMO he's only an emergency point guard and is naturally a wing player. But he always has been and still is a great glue guy (glue only works when there are pieces around to glue together.)

I think we can also be realistic about Coffey, when he's shooting well from 3 then those are going to be his outstanding games. But when he's not, he's more or less a guy. He lacks burst to really be an assertive force on offense, he's fine in other areas but not a huge rebounder and not a shutdown defender either. IMO he's fine, average, whatever you want to call it, so a good shooting night will make him a positive and a bad shooting night will essentially negate his contribution on the court.

I agree with you on this. I also think more damage can be done when you pull a guy who is obviously having confidence problems. It’s written all over Mann’s face. I guess what I’m saying is when your ‘glue’ guy is coming apart at the seams you could always try a different brand of ‘glue’

Riding with him is fine. All we need is his energy, defense & hustle. But he does have to get through this confidence with the ball in his hands issue.