Transaction Discussion Part 4 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

[nickhx2]

al horford, my precious

[esqtvd]

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Thybulle would look good in Clippers uniform.

we'd probably have to take an injured Danny Green off their hands

[Captain Ballmer]

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Thybulle would look good in Clippers uniform.

we'd probably have to take an injured Danny Green off their hands

I'm optimistic that Danny wouldn't mind getting another ring thanks to Kawhi.

[TrueLAfan]

I like Thybulle, but—seriously, where are we going to play him? Powell is a 6’3” SG/SF (huge wingspan), and Mann is a 6’5” SG/SF. They’re both good to very good defenders. Luke is a 6’5” SG. Coffey is a 6’7” SG/SF. Boston is 6’7” 190. I mean, that’s five guys—and Reggie spends some time at the 2 as well. We don’t need to add another 2 or 3, much less two of them. We need a 4 that can play at the 5, and a PG.

[esqtvd]

I like Thybulle, but—seriously, where are we going to play him? Powell is a 6’3” SG/SF (huge wingspan), and Mann is a 6’5” SG/SF. They’re both good to very good defenders. Luke is a 6’5” SG. Coffey is a 6’7” SG/SF. Boston is 6’7” 190. I mean, that’s five guys—and Reggie spends some time at the 2 as well. We don’t need to add another 2 or 3, much less two of them. We need a 4 that can play at the 5, and a PG.

I'm not done yet lol.





I'm not in a hurry to dump Zubac here but it's the only way the salaries match. Drummond [UFA] or some other trad 5 can be scooped up for cheap to play 15-20 minutes.

Philly can throw in Shake Milton or their #23 pick to sweeten up our end. They want to dump Tobias [who was decent in the playoffs] and need depth; I want to dump Senior and I like Thybulle more than Mann & Luke combined--if Coffey is retained and Boston is to get more burn, we can spare them and Philly can use them.

I like Tobias and Thybulle each more than any of the players we'd be giving up so we'd be upgrading. We're overly deep--we don't need a 10-man rotation--and the Sixers are painfully thin. As a fan of both teams, it's an earthquake but I think it's win-win.

[Dynamix]

This is why having a competent FO, especially when it comes to trades, is so important. As a casual fan, I can look at some of these, let's just say questionable trade proposals (-8 wins, lol), and rest easy knowing there's no chance in hell they'll ever happen.

[esqtvd]

This is why having a competent FO, especially when it comes to trades, is so important. As a casual fan, I can look at some of these, let's just say questionable trade proposals (-8 wins, lol), and rest easy knowing there's no chance in hell they'll ever happen.

The 8 wins is based on PER, which is mostly an offensive number. According to PER, Mann is a better player than Thybulle, Zubac is better than Harris, Reed is better than both of them and is the best player in this trade. And Boban with a career PER of 25.5 is better than any of these guys!!


In other words, the minus-8 wins figure is completely useless here but thank you for your opinion anyway.

Hey, this is supposed to be fun.

[ejftw]

Yeah, bare min, Korkmaz needs to be removed, not worth the salary, and Philly needs to add 23 and Shake.

I'm not a fan of that deal, int the slightest, just not high on Thybulle to give up Mann and take on Tobias' contract, even though Harris is a cool dude I'd like back.

[TrueLAfan]

I mean, it's not a horrible trade if you're really high on Thybulle--but it doesn't fix the fundamental problems the Clippers have. Our issues seem obvious to me. Maybe I'm missing something--I don't know. But it surely seems like:

--We're weak in the frontcourt, especially rebounding. RoCo will help, but what we need to do is get a decently sized 4/5 that can spread the court enough and play 25 mpg.
--We need a PG. Doesn't have to be the second coming of Magic, but we need a guy who can play 20-25 mpg at the 1 and run an offense--a guy who can give you you an assist every 5-6 minutes.
--We have a massive glut of swingmen. At SG and SF, we've got Powell, Luke, Mann, Coffey, and Boston, That doesn't count Batum and RoCo, who will get some minutes as SF, Reggie getting some time at the 2 ... and, oh yeah, Kawhi and PG.

Seriously, we could trade any two of Luke, Mann, and Boston and we wouldn't even notice it. Powell, Kawhi and PG are going to play 5500 minutes at the 2 and 3 next year because they're our best players there. Add in Batum and RoCo and Coffey (who we should keep for cheap). That's six guys at SG and SF. We're way too deep there. Somebody has to move. And not for more 6'4" to 6'7" guys. We have plenty of them, thanks.

I'll say it again and keep saying it: some combination of Marcus Morris, Terance Mann or Luke Kennard or both, and maybe Brandon Boston should be able to net us a good 1 or 4/5 that, if we find a team with a trade exception, will save us some significant $$. Because of his low salary this year, I can see it being Mann instead of Luke. That's unfortunate, because I like Mann--but I also can see that we don't have time for him.

[esqtvd]

Yeah, bare min, Korkmaz needs to be removed, not worth the salary, and Philly needs to add 23 and Shake.

I'm not a fan of that deal, int the slightest, just not high on Thybulle to give up Mann and take on Tobias' contract, even though Harris is a cool dude I'd like back.

FTR--Harris' insane salary is the stumbling block to any deal and Korkmaz is in there for salary ballast and the fact that the Sixers would just as soon dump him as keep him. Korkmaz was signed as an afterthought entering last season; I would not expect him to make the Clippers rotation or be surprised if he were dealt or cut.

I'm glad you'd take Tobias back. The Clippers dealt him because they knew he'd get $30M a year somewhere, and it wasn't going to be here. Tobias was the #1 option here after being traded for Blake, he ended up being the #2 in Philly with Ben Simmons refusing to learn how to shoot and then The Beard dropping down from heaven as a re-invented pass-first point guard.

WAY over his ability and temperament. Tobias would be a 3rd or 4th option here now. He would flourish.

[esqtvd]

I mean, it's not a horrible trade if you're really high on Thybulle--but it doesn't fix the fundamental problems the Clippers have. Our issues seem obvious to me. Maybe I'm missing something--I don't know. But it surely seems like:

--We're weak in the frontcourt, especially rebounding. RoCo will help, but what we need to do is get a decently sized 4/5 that can spread the court enough and play 25 mpg.
--We need a PG. Doesn't have to be the second coming of Magic, but we need a guy who can play 20-25 mpg at the 1 and run an offense--a guy who can give you you an assist every 5-6 minutes.
--We have a massive glut of swingmen. At SG and SF, we've got Powell, Luke, Mann, Coffey, and Boston, That doesn't count Batum and RoCo, who will get some minutes as SF, Reggie getting some time at the 2 ... and, oh yeah, Kawhi and PG.

Seriously, we could trade any two of Luke, Mann, and Boston and we wouldn't even notice it. Powell, Kawhi and PG are going to play 5500 minutes at the 2 and 3 next year because they're our best players there. Add in Batum and RoCo and Coffey (who we should keep for cheap). That's six guys at SG and SF. We're way too deep there. Somebody has to move. And not for more 6'4" to 6'7" guys. We have plenty of them, thanks.

I'll say it again and keep saying it: some combination of Marcus Morris, Terance Mann or Luke Kennard or both, and maybe Brandon Boston should be able to net us a good 1 or 4/5 that, if we find a team with a trade exception, will save us some significant $$. Because of his low salary this year, I can see it being Mann instead of Luke. That's unfortunate, because I like Mann--but I also can see that we don't have time for him.

True LA: Thx for your courteous reply.

Basically we're agreeing on the fundamentals. I'm trading 7500 minutes for 4500 more productive ones and I'd be dumping Korkmaz' 1400 minutes here anyway. Doc was forced to play him because there was nobody else. We'd be sending Philly 3000+ net quality minutes.

On our end the deal boils down to Tobias over Marcus. Marcus is arguably better from 3 but Tobias is the better slasher to the hoop, a better rebounder and let's not even talk about Marcus's pathetic assist totals. That part's easy, not even close.


The rest is about matching salaries. Thybulle over Mann, which I think is just a better fit: If Thybulle is a 2 on offense, he's an 8 on defense. Mann's more a 5-and-5. The Sixers need a more rounded player; the Clippers with Kawhi-PG-Powell [not to mention Tobias and Reggie] will not struggle for points. Thybulle can make an impact--T-Mann, no not really, especially now with the 6'7" RoCo in the fold.

Luke I included because Philly needs a shooter with Seth Curry gone. Like Zubac I'd rather keep him than deal him but you gotta give up something to get something. As you say, I think we can spare him, and T-Mann too.


I also included Paul Reed as a throw-in from the Sixers to give us back a center. The Philly fans love Basketball Paul but in reality he's still just a G-League prospect and would be superfluous with Zubac there, who is a solid if unspectacular pro. But he's a body we could throw out there. He's far more athletic than Zu but will never be as solid. But that might just work here as a placeholder starter at the 5 before we go small.

And frankly, Phillydom would rather bring Drummond back than get Zu but the Clippers could offer Andre more opportunity if Zu is moved: starting center for the conference favorite. I would not want to deal Zu without a Plan B in mind [and Hartenstein ain't it]. But trad 5s are out of fashion--in Phoenix they're even saying Ayton is expendable. Zu is replaceable.


As a fan of both teams I'm trying to make this attractive to both sides: I saw most every Clippers game and maybe 50 of the Sixers'. I also read the Philly sports sections online daily.

We upgrade with Tobias and Thybulle for Morris and Mann and give up spare parts. The Sixers gain 3000-4000 minutes of desperately needed quality depth [Danny Green is out until the All-Star break--IF he ever plays again!].

Fair dinkum.

[TrueLAfan]

True LA: Thx for your courteous reply.

Basically we're agreeing on the fundamentals. I'm trading 7500 minutes for 4500 more productive ones and I'd be dumping Korkmaz' 1400 minutes here anyway. Doc was forced to play him because there was nobody else. We'd be sending Philly 3000+ net quality minutes.

On our end the deal boils down to Tobias over Marcus. Marcus is arguably better from 3 but Tobias is the better slasher to the hoop, a better rebounder and let's not even talk about Marcus's pathetic assist totals. That part's easy, not even close.


The rest is about matching salaries. Thybulle over Mann, which I think is just a better fit: If Thybulle is a 2 on offense, he's an 8 on defense. Mann's more a 5-and-5. The Sixers need a more rounded player; the Clippers with Kawhi-PG-Powell [not to mention Tobias and Reggie] will not struggle for points. Thybulle can make an impact--T-Mann, no not really, especially now with the 6'7" RoCo in the fold.

Luke I included because Philly needs a shooter with Seth Curry gone. Like Zubac I'd rather keep him than deal him but you gotta give up something to get something. As you say, I think we can spare him, and T-Mann too.


I also included Paul Reed as a throw-in from the Sixers to give us back a center. The Philly fans love Basketball Paul but in reality he's still just a G-League prospect and would be superfluous with Zubac there, who is a solid if unspectacular pro. But he's a body we could throw out there. He's far more athletic than Zu but will never be as solid. But that might just work here as a placeholder starter at the 5 before we go small.

And frankly, Phillydom would rather bring Drummond back than get Zu but the Clippers could offer Andre more opportunity if Zu is moved: starting center for the conference favorite. I would not want to deal Zu without a Plan B in mind [and Hartenstein ain't it]. But trad 5s are out of fashion--in Phoenix they're even saying Ayton is expendable. Zu is replaceable.


As a fan of both teams I'm trying to make this attractive to both sides: I saw most every Clippers game and maybe 50 of the Sixers'. I also read the Philly sports sections online daily.

We upgrade with Tobias and Thybulle for Morris and Mann and give up spare parts. The Sixers gain 3000-4000 minutes of desperately needed quality depth [Danny Green is out until the All-Star break--IF he ever plays again!].

Fair dinkum.

Hey man--we're on the same page. It's all good. This is what offseason banter is all about.

I think your trade is idea is good--but we're not the right team for it. The problem is with Tobias is he can’t play the 5 at all. Tbh, I think he's slightly better at the 3 than the 4 too--his rebounding is dropping slightly, and he doesn't have the bulldog mindset of RoCo. JaMychal didn't either, was a little bigger than Tobias, and spent time at the 5 reluctantly and not so well. Tobias just can't play there. It’s not his game. It’s not necessarily a size thing--it’s weird; there are (much) smaller people that can do fine at C, at least in limited minutes. RoCo is one of them. Look, if you’re playing a 6’9” or maybe 6’10” C that’s on the perimeter a lot, RoCo can take care of business. He gets position well. Despite his low height, he uses his size well and bodies guys up. (He’s listed at 210, but I think he plays closer to 220 now,) He’s got that terrific wingspan. It’s not just an attitude—it’s a way of play, and he’s got it. In Houston, they went (way) overboard and basically started him at the 5—which he can’t do at all. RoCo’s not a big big man, or even an average sized big man. He’s a small big man that can play big, which works in the right matchups. He can give us 300-400 good minutes at the 5 and, like, three times that at the 4. He’ll replace all of Mook’s time at the 4 and be better for us, IMO.

But, yeah, we need a (legit) 6’9” or 6’10” guy to p[lay at PF/C. When I say legit, I don’t want a guy who’s 6”7” barefoot and gets up to 6’8.75” with shoes and gets listed as 6’9”. I want guy who’s the size of, again Trey Lyles (6’9” barefoot, 6’10.25” in shoes, 7”1.5” wingspan). I’d like to get younger, but if we had a chance/choice to get Derrick Favors cheap, I’d jump all over that. Really, OKC is at the point now where something has to give—they’re going to end on with Holmgren (or Smith) on a team that has Darius Bazely, Isaiah Roby, Aleksei Pokusevski, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl and Favors. Too many 4s and 5s. Orlando has a frontcourt glut. There are teams shopping players that we can use.

[esqtvd]

True LA: Thx for your courteous reply.

Basically we're agreeing on the fundamentals. I'm trading 7500 minutes for 4500 more productive ones and I'd be dumping Korkmaz' 1400 minutes here anyway. Doc was forced to play him because there was nobody else. We'd be sending Philly 3000+ net quality minutes.

On our end the deal boils down to Tobias over Marcus. Marcus is arguably better from 3 but Tobias is the better slasher to the hoop, a better rebounder and let's not even talk about Marcus's pathetic assist totals. That part's easy, not even close.


The rest is about matching salaries. Thybulle over Mann, which I think is just a better fit: If Thybulle is a 2 on offense, he's an 8 on defense. Mann's more a 5-and-5. The Sixers need a more rounded player; the Clippers with Kawhi-PG-Powell [not to mention Tobias and Reggie] will not struggle for points. Thybulle can make an impact--T-Mann, no not really, especially now with the 6'7" RoCo in the fold.

Luke I included because Philly needs a shooter with Seth Curry gone. Like Zubac I'd rather keep him than deal him but you gotta give up something to get something. As you say, I think we can spare him, and T-Mann too.


I also included Paul Reed as a throw-in from the Sixers to give us back a center. The Philly fans love Basketball Paul but in reality he's still just a G-League prospect and would be superfluous with Zubac there, who is a solid if unspectacular pro. But he's a body we could throw out there. He's far more athletic than Zu but will never be as solid. But that might just work here as a placeholder starter at the 5 before we go small.

And frankly, Phillydom would rather bring Drummond back than get Zu but the Clippers could offer Andre more opportunity if Zu is moved: starting center for the conference favorite. I would not want to deal Zu without a Plan B in mind [and Hartenstein ain't it]. But trad 5s are out of fashion--in Phoenix they're even saying Ayton is expendable. Zu is replaceable.


As a fan of both teams I'm trying to make this attractive to both sides: I saw most every Clippers game and maybe 50 of the Sixers'. I also read the Philly sports sections online daily.

We upgrade with Tobias and Thybulle for Morris and Mann and give up spare parts. The Sixers gain 3000-4000 minutes of desperately needed quality depth [Danny Green is out until the All-Star break--IF he ever plays again!].

Fair dinkum.

Hey man--we're on the same page. It's all good. This is what offseason banter is all about.

I think your trade is idea is good--but we're not the right team for it. The problem is with Tobias is he can’t play the 5 at all. Tbh, I think he's slightly better at the 3 than the 4 too--his rebounding is dropping slightly, and he doesn't have the bulldog mindset of RoCo. JaMychal didn't either, was a little bigger than Tobias, and spent time at the 5 reluctantly and not so well. Tobias just can't play there. It’s not his game. It’s not necessarily a size thing--it’s weird; there are (much) smaller people that can do fine at C, at least in limited minutes. RoCo is one of them. Look, if you’re playing a 6’9” or maybe 6’10” C that’s on the perimeter a lot, RoCo can take care of business. He gets position well. Despite his low height, he uses his size well and bodies guys up. (He’s listed at 210, but I think he plays closer to 220 now,) He’s got that terrific wingspan. It’s not just an attitude—it’s a way of play, and he’s got it. In Houston, they went (way) overboard and basically started him at the 5—which he can’t do at all. RoCo’s not a big big man, or even an average sized big man. He’s a small big man that can play big, which works in the right matchups. He can give us 300-400 good minutes at the 5 and, like, three times that at the 4. He’ll replace all of Mook’s time at the 4 and be better for us, IMO.

But, yeah, we need a (legit) 6’9” or 6’10” guy to p[lay at PF/C. When I say legit, I don’t want a guy who’s 6”7” barefoot and gets up to 6’8.75” with shoes and gets listed as 6’9”. I want guy who’s the size of, again Trey Lyles (6’9” barefoot, 6’10.25” in shoes, 7”1.5” wingspan). I’d like to get younger, but if we had a chance/choice to get Derrick Favors cheap, I’d jump all over that. Really, OKC is at the point now where something has to give—they’re going to end on with Holmgren (or Smith) on a team that has Darius Bazely, Isaiah Roby, Aleksei Pokusevski, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl and Favors. Too many 4s and 5s. Orlando has a frontcourt glut. There are teams shopping players that we can use.

All true, and why I have us making a run at Drummond and gave us Paul Reed in the trade. If Tobias is a bad fit here, he's still a clear upgrade from Senior at the 4 even if he can't play the 5. We could work around it somehow when matchups dictate.

______________________________

ADD: and then there's this guy

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[nickhx2]

guys remember when we needed a center to develop with DJ gone and we took jerome robinson over robert williams

i remember

[esqtvd]

guys remember when we needed a center to develop with DJ gone and we took jerome robinson over robert williams

i remember

#13. Highest Doc ever had was Brice and Bullock [both at #25] but Jerome Robinson was a far bigger bust than them and looking back, even Aminu at #8 in 2008, who at least had a career. [Gordon Hayward and Paul George went #9-10 that year. ]

The FO won some points back for trading the #12 and a second-rounder for Shai at #11 but Mikal Bridges has turned into quite a nice player himself [20-7-4 last year]. And trading a future FRP that turned into Saddiq Bey for the immortal Mfiondu Kabengele does not burnish their ledger either.

Fortunately Ballmer's billions cover a lot of sins--we got Brandon Boston for cash and a CONDITIONAL 2022 2nd round draft pick. We also sent out Ballmer bucks in the Jason Preston deal.


And of course we swooped in on Portland's salary dump/fire sale [Powell, Covington] because nobody else could afford to. They could have REALLY helped the Lakers, IMO. Life is good.

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L.A. CLIPPERS SALE
Ballmer's $2 Billion Offer
'ALL CASH'

[ejftw]

Let's also be honest, Robert Williams didn't quite have the hype at that point, and the trade for Shai, if I'm not mistaken, was due to Charlotte knowing Clips wanted him and taking him just to snag something to make the swap for 12.

But man, imagine if we had Shai and Bridges, might have saved a pick or something in the PG trade.

[esqtvd]

Let's also be honest, Robert Williams didn't quite have the hype at that point, and the trade for Shai, if I'm not mistaken, was due to Charlotte knowing Clips wanted him and taking him just to snag something to make the swap for 12.

But man, imagine if we had Shai and Bridges, might have saved a pick or something in the PG trade.

In fairness, it appears that Charlotte had already targeted Mikal Bridges at #11 so when the Clippers rang them up with the offer of the additional SRP it was to pre-empt any other team's offer--with the understanding we wouldn't take Bridges. CHA said thank you very much for giving us a SRP to pick who we were going to draft anyway.

But also in fairness I give the FO full props for going decisively after the guy they wanted. I am not a second-guesser--they [I think Jerry] wanted Jerome and they decided not to play games that he would still be there if they traded down.

Proof what a crapshoot it all is. The same exact people who were so brilliant on Shai were total morons on Jerome.

[esqtvd]

always liked McConnell

the rest pretty mmmmmeh

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[ejftw]

I'd take a flier on Nunn as well, and too bad JMyke makes $98K more than the TPE, wouldn't have minded him back as well

But I think Clips let that tpe expire.

[KL2]

Big no from me. Not gutting the team for him please.

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