Game #7: LAC (3-3) @ NETS (3-4) WED 11/8 4:30 PM—CHANNEL 5

[madmaxmedia]

Harden as 6th man is the move

That's the move when you don't have a fragile ego cry baby. You always have to preserve team chemistry and morale unless it will tank everything else you're trying to do. I really don't think the guy who was saying he isn't appreciated enough is going to be the one to bench.

I'd say just stagger the minutes, because bench or start, they will still end up being on the floor together, so why have the whole ego issue vs just doing the same thing despite them starting.

100% agreed that staggering minutes is the important thing in the end anyway. Who starts influences the actual units over the floor per the course of the game, but by no means determines it. If certain units emerge to clearly become more effective as the season progresses, the more like the players will buy into that as well in the event a change in the starters is ever made.

[og15]

Harden and Russ are going to have to put their egos aside (More Harden than Russ) and follow the example of CP3. Don't know if anyone here has watched the Warriors, but CP3 as a super 6th man has made the bench unit look amazing. I also think Russ is a better fit with Zu than Harden.

Agreed, though I give Harden a pass on this as he has no experience with Zu, so they might develop that as time goes on. He doesn't know where Zu likes the ball or exactly what his skillset is. He was giving Zu passes outside his range and in positions where he has to put the ball on the floor or make a pass on the move. That's not really where you want Zu.

[madmaxmedia]

Harden and Russ are going to have to put their egos aside (More Harden than Russ) and follow the example of CP3. Don't know if anyone here has watched the Warriors, but CP3 as a super 6th man has made the bench unit look amazing. I also think Russ is a better fit with Zu than Harden.

Agreed, though I give Harden a pass on this as he has no experience with Zu, so they might develop that as time goes on. He doesn't know where Zu likes the ball or exactly what his skillset is. He was giving Zu passes outside his range and in positions where he has to put the ball on the floor or make a pass on the move. That's not really where you want Zu.

Zu getting the ball with a clear path to the basket or pretty close to the basket works is generally very good. Zu getting the ball a bit further out in traffic leads to hesitation and turnovers when he is clearly trying to pass out and the defense recognizes this.

[nickhx2]

yeah, and yet the team keeps finding ways to do him in like that lmao

[og15]

yeah, and yet the team keeps finding ways to do him in like that lmao

Yea, I don't know what they were trying to do to him, but sone of it was clearly lack of familiarity. The defense of course wanted that to happen too, so there's some defensive strategy in there too that forced it.

For Harden, you give Embiid the ball there it's a much different situation, and Capela who he played with in Houston could put the ball on the floor in those situations and get a basket look, so could Nene.

Plumlee had a different skillset than Zu and he can handle and pass, so of course he's a different look too.

Zu is a finisher, you don't really get him the ball at 17 feet moving towards the basket to make plays lol

[clipperlover]

The problem with having an All-Star offense is that it works well with an All-Star game defense. However, against a team that is giving actual defensive effort, the All-Star offense doesn't operate as well. You can't just run a bunch of ally oops.

They need to be a group of All-Star players playing as a normal offense. Defensively, we only gave up 100 pts last night. However, we can't keep up the habit of giving up 60+ 2nd halves. We have given up a lot of 3rd and 4th quarter points since the trade.

P.J.Tucker is not > a tandem of Covington and Batum. You took two guys that could spell Kawhi and PG defensively and brought in a guy that can't.

[Bobbymcgee]

I think right now the Clippers are overthinking this.

Harden should be the primary ball handler bringing the ball up the court and then dump it off to George or Leonard as primary scorers. When one of them is sitting, then Harden should go to work.

Westbrook should be running with the young guys like Hyland, Mann, Powell and attacking the basket as Westbrook does best.

Clippers do need to rebuild their big man depth so a trade of Powell and pieces is probably necessary.

[esqtvd]

No one is going to become a new type of player, that's a fools errand. Despite common misconception, Paul George's consistency as more of a tier 2 star is actually quite fine. He's not consistent if compared to Kawhi or LeBron, but his consistency is perfectly fine for a second tier star. Problem is that people still want to foolishly act like the 2020 playoffs was the norm for him even though it is a wild outlier when compared to previous and the ones following.

PG will be inconsistent with his scoring and shooting. I have that built into any expectations, that doesn't prevent teams from winning though because most championship teams second guy is at a similar level of consistency. The important thing is how you make up for that.

It can be maddening because he looks so smooth and effortless in the good games that there seems to be the potential for more consistency, but it's just not really in him. That's why he is a 2nd tier player, but yeah that's not the problem because that's still really, really good. It's not like it averages out to a 20/5/5 guy on 43%/35%/75% splits, his good and bad results in a really good average line.

I would like to see more catch and shoot opportunities for him. He's not an absolute deadeye sharpshooter, but he's a very good shooter who doesn't need much clearance due to his size and length and high release point. If all he did was shoot reasonably open 3 pointers all game long, I think that wins more games than it loses for us (not that I actually want him to do only that.)

That's what they need to figure out in 70 games, not how to make PG more consistent or how to make Harden not inconsistent in the playoffs. Instead how to work through that, what's the alternate option when they don't have it. How to work off having another guy to help. How to maximize 1/2, 1/3, 2/3 pick and rolls vs just using the big to pick and roll while they all watch each other.

Yeah I think you mentioned in another post, we have to learn and work just to get to the point where we are hopefully equal to the sum of the parts. That could easily take 30 games, and then if guys are really dedicated try to get to that next level of actually being better than the sum of the parts. That may or may not happen, but if it did IMO would allow us to still become a genuine playoff threat (assuming we are able to make another move or 2 to balance the roster.)

First rule has to be: NOBODY HOLDS THE BALL. You have 4 seconds to drive it, shoot it, or pass it to somebody else. Especially the drive and kick, which has been noticeably absent.

Clippers shot 22% from 3 vs the Nets. You're almost certain to lose at that rate. Clippers were 3rd in the NBA last year at 38%. This should regress to the mean.

As for defense, I have no idea. Pressure the ball and count on the other 4 guys behind you. And box out. The Clippers actually won the rebound battle vs the Nets, 51-49, after getting KILLED by the Knicks, 48-31.

It's probably not as bad as it looks. Ball movement and team defense. Two things that come with trust and familiarity.

[nickhx2]

yeah, and yet the team keeps finding ways to do him in like that lmao

Yea, I don't know what they were trying to do to him, but sone of it was clearly lack of familiarity. The defense of course wanted that to happen too, so there's some defensive strategy in there too that forced it.

For Harden, you give Embiid the ball there it's a much different situation, and Capela who he played with in Houston could put the ball on the floor in those situations and get a basket look, so could Nene.

Plumlee had a different skillset than Zu and he can handle and pass, so of course he's a different look too.

Zu is a finisher, you don't really get him the ball at 17 feet moving towards the basket to make plays lol

makes you appreciate guys like the occasional marcus camby or cole aldrich who could give you that extra dimension here and there

[madmaxmedia]

yeah, and yet the team keeps finding ways to do him in like that lmao

Yea, I don't know what they were trying to do to him, but sone of it was clearly lack of familiarity. The defense of course wanted that to happen too, so there's some defensive strategy in there too that forced it.

For Harden, you give Embiid the ball there it's a much different situation, and Capela who he played with in Houston could put the ball on the floor in those situations and get a basket look, so could Nene.

Plumlee had a different skillset than Zu and he can handle and pass, so of course he's a different look too.

Zu is a finisher, you don't really get him the ball at 17 feet moving towards the basket to make plays lol

makes you appreciate guys like the occasional marcus camby or cole aldrich who could give you that extra dimension here and there

Or a healthy and rested Nico Batum LOL.

I wonder what the discussion was around the salary filler pieces, I really doubt the Clipper FO wanted to trade away so many bigs. PJ Tucker and Nico make close to the same money (and they're both on the book for next year, PJ has a player option which seems like a sure thing)...

[nickhx2]

i'm of the mind that given morey was more or less forced at gunpoint (if the reports were true) and he just wanted to inflict maximum pain on the team, with whatever remaining assets that were still movable.

[Wammy Giveaway]

i'm of the mind that given morey was more or less forced at gunpoint (if the reports were true) and he just wanted to inflict maximum pain on the team, with whatever remaining assets that were still movable.

Not the gunpoint part, but it is true. NBA officials did get involved in the standoff, but unlike the Bill Walton trade of 1979 where the Blazers made out as winners and punished the Clippers, it was the Sixers who were in the wrong instead of the Clippers. Ironically, the Harden trade feels like the Bill Walton trade in that even though the Clippers won, they still lost because of chemistry.

[Scoundreldays]

I hear we may be interested in trading for Theis. What's his contract? He any good, seems short for a center at 6'8. Might rather wait longer, don't want just anyone even with little choice

[PeteyPablo]

From my observation of the three losses :

- Clippers had the lead at halftime vs Lakers, Knicks and Nets
- Opposing teams came out more aggressive and with more energy on defense
- Clippers scoring got really rough and stagnant.

[esqtvd]

Yea, I don't know what they were trying to do to him, but sone of it was clearly lack of familiarity. The defense of course wanted that to happen too, so there's some defensive strategy in there too that forced it.

For Harden, you give Embiid the ball there it's a much different situation, and Capela who he played with in Houston could put the ball on the floor in those situations and get a basket look, so could Nene.

Plumlee had a different skillset than Zu and he can handle and pass, so of course he's a different look too.

Zu is a finisher, you don't really get him the ball at 17 feet moving towards the basket to make plays lol

makes you appreciate guys like the occasional marcus camby or cole aldrich who could give you that extra dimension here and there

Or a healthy and rested Nico Batum LOL.

I wonder what the discussion was around the salary filler pieces, I really doubt the Clipper FO wanted to trade away so many bigs. PJ Tucker and Nico make close to the same money (and they're both on the book for next year, PJ has a player option which seems like a sure thing)...

Except for a probably worthless pick or two in 10 or 15 years, the only real value Morey got out of this was upgrading to Batum from Tucker, and dumping PJ's 2nd remaining year at age 40.

Batum has already cracked the top of the Sixers rotation and could easily bump Melton as a starter.

Had to give Morey SOMETHING.

[madmaxmedia]

From my observation of the three losses :

- Clippers had the lead at halftime vs Lakers, Knicks and Nets
- Opposing teams came out more aggressive and with more energy on defense
- Clippers scoring got really rough and stagnant.

Amidst all the doom I had forgotten that we had halftime leads in every game (of course Harden didn't play vs. Lakers anyway.)

The other interesting thing is that for all the negativity of the starting line up (which I share), Brooklyn and NYN only scored 13 and 19 points in the first quarters. Obviously there could be any number of contributing factors to these low tallies, but it wasn't because our defense fell apart.

Onto Dallas...

[og15]

makes you appreciate guys like the occasional marcus camby or cole aldrich who could give you that extra dimension here and there

Or a healthy and rested Nico Batum LOL.

I wonder what the discussion was around the salary filler pieces, I really doubt the Clipper FO wanted to trade away so many bigs. PJ Tucker and Nico make close to the same money (and they're both on the book for next year, PJ has a player option which seems like a sure thing)...

Except for a probably worthless pick or two in 10 or 15 years, the only real value Morey got out of this was upgrading to Batum from Tucker, and dumping PJ's 2nd remaining year at age 40.

Batum has already cracked the top of the Sixers rotation and could easily bump Melton as a starter.

Had to give Morey SOMETHING.

There's a balance between the picks are everything mentality and swinging the pendulum to picks are useless. The value of a pick isn't always in the player you draft with it. It's an asset for the Sixers to trade and aggregate in order to possibly get a star that becomes available.

Batum is younger and Batum is expiring vs Tucker making another $11 million at 39 years old. So I can see why one would want to make that switch, I definitely would haha

[MartinToVaught]

Had to give Morey SOMETHING.

No? Frank could have just hung up the phone and not made the trade at all.

[esqtvd]

Or a healthy and rested Nico Batum LOL.

I wonder what the discussion was around the salary filler pieces, I really doubt the Clipper FO wanted to trade away so many bigs. PJ Tucker and Nico make close to the same money (and they're both on the book for next year, PJ has a player option which seems like a sure thing)...

Except for a probably worthless pick or two in 10 or 15 years, the only real value Morey got out of this was upgrading to Batum from Tucker, and dumping PJ's 2nd remaining year at age 40.

Batum has already cracked the top of the Sixers rotation and could easily bump Melton as a starter.

Had to give Morey SOMETHING.

There's a balance between the picks are everything mentality and swinging the pendulum to picks are useless. The value of a pick isn't always in the player you draft with it. It's an asset for the Sixers to trade and aggregate in order to possibly get a star that becomes available.

Batum is younger and Batum is expiring vs Tucker making another $11 million at 39 years old. So I can see why one would want to make that switch, I definitely would haha

Never forget: The buck stops with Ballmer. He's still the richest owner in sports with a 2 billion-dollar arena and a team in Hollywood with the best weather in the NBA. He is not worried about a FRP in 5 years. He has no intention of it being worth anything. The FAs will come. This will not be a lottery team.

As for the downgrade from Batum to Tucker, that's the price to pay, and it's far from prohibitive. Batum is 34 and can't play more than 20 mpg anyway, and say what you want, Harden is definitely going to be an upgrade from Mook lol. RoCo may see some end of the rotation minutes in Philly and K-Mart 2 was dumped by a last-place team at only age 24. This is not a major tragedy or franchise-killer.

[madmaxmedia]

Ah I misread Batum’s contract, I thought there was another year after this.