Cousins

[Ruzious]

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/dallas-cowboys/draft/1989

No, Ruz. Dallas didn't draft another QB in 1989 (see the link above).

Mike Shanahan either (1) ruined the career of Kirk Cousins, (2)created a Schuler/Frerotte rivalry among two rookies that could detract from Griffin's development (his confidence could get DESTROYED if Cousins adapts faster to the offense), (3)wasted a pick on a Cousins, who will never play, instead of drafting needs elsewhere, or (4) Picked Cousins to trade him later--but not likely due to Cousins being "too good to pass up".

It was not a good decision to draft the Heisman winner and then draft another quarterback a day later.

You're wrong, and you're not listening. Steve Walsh was the first pick in the supplemental draft of 1989 - and the Cowboys gave up a 1st round pick on get him. There were 2 other players picked in that supplemental draft that teams used 1st rounders to get. And Walsh was a helluvalot higher profile player than Kirk Cousins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... ntal_Draft

I've already told you this isn't anything like the Heath/Gus situation for a number of reasons that I'm not going to repeat - cuz I don't have time to waste and it's there in my previous posts. There's no QB controversy, and Cousins isn't going to stunt RG3's development. And Cousins - being a 4th round pick... is going to get the snaps you would expect from a 4th round pick.

Edit - sorry if that sounded harsh. I was in a rush when I posted and didn't like being told I was wrong about something that I knew was true.

[Higga]

I can't wait till RG3 just destroys the Saints in the opener and everyone STFU about Cousins.

[Wizards2Lottery]

There's no QB controversy, and Cousins isn't going to stunt RG3's development. And Cousins - being a 4th round pick... is going to get the snaps you would expect from a 4th round pick.

Absolutely true. How many QB's drafted in the 4th round end up as the #2 QB on their respective teams during their rookie season?

Answer: none of them.

Cousins was going to be the #3 on any team he was drafted by. Except now he has the added bonus that if he shows significant improvement from year 1 to 2, he has a chance to take over Grossman's #2 spot.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Saturday that the Redskins drafted Kirk Cousins in the fourth round with the intention of "developing" him and trading Cousins for draft picks down the road.
The Cousins pick has drawn media flak due to a phony QB controversy, though Cousins won't even be Robert Griffin III's backup. He'll be a third-stringer, and Rex Grossman will play if Griffin struggles. The Redskins will hope that Cousins' arm gets stronger and he adds some weight while riding the bench. At worst, the Redskins have themselves a potentially quality long-term backup. At best, Cousins will bring back a second-round pick in a few years.

[queridiculo]

SMH, how on earth is this thread still going strong?

I think the law of parsimony should apply here, why are people so hell bent on outdoing each other in assigning motives in this situation?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/dallas-cowboys/draft/1989

No, Ruz. Dallas didn't draft another QB in 1989 (see the link above).

Mike Shanahan either (1) ruined the career of Kirk Cousins, (2)created a Schuler/Frerotte rivalry among two rookies that could detract from Griffin's development (his confidence could get DESTROYED if Cousins adapts faster to the offense), (3)wasted a pick on a Cousins, who will never play, instead of drafting needs elsewhere, or (4) Picked Cousins to trade him later--but not likely due to Cousins being "too good to pass up".

It was not a good decision to draft the Heisman winner and then draft another quarterback a day later.

You're wrong, and you're not listening. Steve Walsh was the first pick in the supplemental draft of 1989 - and the Cowboys gave up a 1st round pick on get him. There were 2 other players picked in that supplemental draft that teams used 1st rounders to get. And Walsh was a helluvalot higher profile player than Kirk Cousins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft#Supplemental_Draft

I've already told you this isn't anything like the Heath/Gus situation for a number of reasons that I'm not going to repeat - cuz I don't have time to waste and it's there in my previous posts. There's no QB controversy, and Cousins isn't going to stunt RG3's development. And Cousins - being a 4th round pick... is going to get the snaps you would expect from a 4th round pick.

Edit - sorry if that sounded harsh. I was in a rush when I posted and didn't like being told I was wrong about something that I knew was true.

Ruz, I don't know football that well at all. You obviously do. I was wrong about Aikman. You were right.

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.


We will see how this plays out. I believe the others who think it was a bad move.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

SMH, how on earth is this thread still going strong?

I think the law of parsimony should apply here, why are people so hell bent on outdoing each other in assigning motives in this situation?

I'm shaking my head at how people doubt me so much in this forum.

[MDStar]

[/quote]

Ruz, I don't know football that well at all. You obviously do. I was wrong about Aikman. You were right.

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.

[/quote]

This can't be a serious comment! I refuse to believe it. No way, no how. Your just trying to be oppositional, for the sake of having something to do.

Nope, I'm on to you CCJ. Nope, Nope, Nope.

[Higga]

If Shanny liked Cousins so much, he wouldn't have made the deal for RG3 and would have just taken Cousins in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[Ruzious]

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/dallas-cowboys/draft/1989

No, Ruz. Dallas didn't draft another QB in 1989 (see the link above).

Mike Shanahan either (1) ruined the career of Kirk Cousins, (2)created a Schuler/Frerotte rivalry among two rookies that could detract from Griffin's development (his confidence could get DESTROYED if Cousins adapts faster to the offense), (3)wasted a pick on a Cousins, who will never play, instead of drafting needs elsewhere, or (4) Picked Cousins to trade him later--but not likely due to Cousins being "too good to pass up".

It was not a good decision to draft the Heisman winner and then draft another quarterback a day later.

You're wrong, and you're not listening. Steve Walsh was the first pick in the supplemental draft of 1989 - and the Cowboys gave up a 1st round pick on get him. There were 2 other players picked in that supplemental draft that teams used 1st rounders to get. And Walsh was a helluvalot higher profile player than Kirk Cousins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft#Supplemental_Draft

I've already told you this isn't anything like the Heath/Gus situation for a number of reasons that I'm not going to repeat - cuz I don't have time to waste and it's there in my previous posts. There's no QB controversy, and Cousins isn't going to stunt RG3's development. And Cousins - being a 4th round pick... is going to get the snaps you would expect from a 4th round pick.

Edit - sorry if that sounded harsh. I was in a rush when I posted and didn't like being told I was wrong about something that I knew was true.

Ruz, I don't know football that well at all. You obviously do. I was wrong about Aikman. You were right.

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.
.

But how could your intuition say that - when he paid 3 1sts and a 2nd for RG3 and just a 4th for Cousins? 3 1sts and a 2nd is a GINORMOUS sign of approval for brains and intuitions to look at.

[verbal8]

I think there is no QB controversy this season. A guy available in the 4th round is not seen as an NFL ready QB.

Here is the 3rd and 4th round QBs in the last 10 years:

http://pfref.com/tiny/dYvcr

Except for maybe Schaub, none of those players even in their primes would cause a QB controversy with what is expected from RGIII.

[TheKingOfVa360]

He will be the back up qb

[Dat2U]

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.


We will see how this plays out. I believe the others who think it was a bad move.

What you and others seem to fail to understand Shanahan won't have the opportunity to play favorites.

Shanahan's future with the Redskins is directly tied to Griffin's success here. It's in Shanahan's best interest that Griffin becomes everything he is expected to be.

Do you really think Daniel Snyder would tolerate anything other than Griffin getting every opportunity in the world to succeed in DC?

[Nivek]

Only way this becomes a controversy is if RGIII isn't any good.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz, I don't know football that well at all. You obviously do. I was wrong about Aikman. You were right.

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.

This can't be a serious comment! I refuse to believe it. No way, no how. Your just trying to be oppositional, for the sake of having something to do.

Nope, I'm on to you CCJ. Nope, Nope, Nope.

Sometimes I do just like to stir the pot, but not this time.

I really don't get using that pick for a QB, MDStar. I'm also wondering about Shanahan. This time last year, he was down with Grossman and Beck. That after him riding McNabb out of town. When Shanny had faith in Rex, I wondered based on Rex's INTs and past. I saw a double standard very obvious to me when Rex appeared to be chunky. I don't know what the calipers said or whatever body fat indicator said, but I remember Shanahan accusing McNabb of being too out of shape to run the offense. He never, very questioned Rex's conditioning. Just seemed to me Mike had his guys.

I said I don't know football because it is not my passion. I don't want to do a Skip Bayless, so let me qualify myself first. I was a bench guy on my varsity team. My team DID ALSO win a state championship, but I QUIT because I thought I was better than a guy the coach brought in before me. This same coach obviously knew what he was doing. I regret being more about self and not team. I was wrong to quit. I wish my dad or someone had been around at that point to tell me to stick with it. But what I didn't like was who got to play and who didn't. Some things seemed to be black and white to me. I actually was chastised for hitting my teammates too hard in practice.

MDStar, I'm tired of this topic but brought it up just to plant the seed. Not of doubt. Just of concern. At the very least, I don't see having two rookies in camp.

Ruz, I do remember the name Steve Walsh. I know Aikman was hugely successful, and think Steve Walsh had a career commensurate with what he should have had. THE ONE THING I KNOW is you cannot tell me Griffin III is a better NFL QB than Cousins FOR SURE because they haven't taken a snap.

The problem I have is why bring anyone in if you don't care what their best is? Put Cousins on the shelf as a collection piece or trade him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Only way this becomes a controversy is if RGIII isn't any good.

Or, if Shanahan thinks Cousins is better than RGIII at any point in the next 2-3 years.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

BTW, the paparazzi at TMZ.Com were following RGIII. Criticized his breakfast and pizza choices.

I want Griffin to succeed because I think he comes from a great family and he presents himself well.
I want Cousins to succeed because I think he comes from a great family and he presents himself well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My intuition is that Shanahan plays favorites. Cousins will be his favorite. Griffin won't. There will be a controversy.


We will see how this plays out. I believe the others who think it was a bad move.

What you and others seem to fail to understand Shanahan won't have the opportunity to play favorites.

Shanahan's future with the Redskins is directly tied to Griffin's success here. It's in Shanahan's best interest that Griffin becomes everything he is expected to be.

Do you really think Daniel Snyder would tolerate anything other than Griffin getting every opportunity in the world to succeed in DC?

Good point, Dat. I appreciate boldness (arrogance is what I'm told I show) because I've been quite full of myself lately! Keep your edge going, it makes this fun!

So Dat, you think Shanahan is skating on thin ice and Griffin is going to get all the snaps and all the chances to succeed? Once Griffin falters, that will be all she wrote for Shanahan in DC? Griffin won't have undue pressure at all because of Cousins.... Okay, that is reasonable.

Do I think Shanahan will accept Griffin not having every opportunity? Well, I think if Griffin struggles the first 6 weeks the media will turn on him. They will talk about Matt Leinart and Ryan Leaf, and how high they went in the draft. They will talk about the draft picks the Skins gave up. What I think is Griffin will be under John Wall-like pressure.

How much Wall-hate did I blog because I didn't like something early on? Now, John Wall has won me over through hard work. At the same time I just read he shot 28% from beyond 3ft. That makes me like Wall ... more. Wait til he can shoot! But this is two years in.

Griffin is going to be under some pressure. He might not be an instant success. Dat, I hadn't really thought much about Shanahan's job security or Snyder's role in this. What I IMMEDIATELY thought is that Cousins is somebody they really LIKE. They will play him if it means winning games or keeping their job.

Remember how sure you (and I and others) were sure that Ernie Grunfeld was on the way out? His owner stuck with him. Seems like a good move to me now. In humility, I'll say I don't know what the future holds.

One of my biggest reasons for posting is what I posted above. I like Cousins, too. I think he deserved a better opportunity, like Denver, for his career to flourish. Regardless, he will get paid. He will go as far as his talent takes him.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Do you realize that Denver picked a QB in the 2nd round?

Cousins was on no teams radar as a possible QB of the future. He was passed over for Russell Wilson of all QB's.

[Nivek]

Only way this becomes a controversy is if RGIII isn't any good.

Or, if Shanahan thinks Cousins is better than RGIII at any point in the next 2-3 years.

Which won't happen if RGIII is as good as everyone thinks he is.

[verbal8]

The 4th round may have been a bit of a reach for a back-up QB(especially with so many assets given up for RG3), but I don't think the move is terrible. If the move looks bad, it will be most likely because RG3 is a top QB and playing every game.

However some top QBs have missed 20%+ of their games(Schuab and Romo). Do the Skins want the top option to be Grossman in his mid-30s? Do they want the season to be over for the team if it is for the starting QB? Another advantage of a competent back-up QB, is it gives the back-up offensive players quality practice reps. This is likely more important for them than it is for the starters, who get lots of game experience.

As far as an opportunity for Cousins, I think DC is a pretty good one. He doesn't have to look over his shoulder about making the roster. And with Grossman's age and track record, he seems to have a pretty clear path to being the #2 QB on what is hopefully a good team. His development obviously won't be the focus, but it probably is helpful having the team developing another QB at the same time.

Also it seems the Skins are not so attached to him that they are willing to deal him when a good opportunity comes up. He may not get much game time, but I think starting next season he sees a fair amount of preseason action(I think RG3 gets as much as possible this year).

I think with the new rookie scale, this should be less of an issue but I wonder if avoiding a hold-out by RG3 was part of the rationale for picking another QB.