New York Knicks @ Los Angeles Lakers 12/25 3:00 PM ET (ABC)

[cnv2855]

A mod deleted my thread about the piss poor officiating. Let's not even talk about how bad it is.

Let's not talk about how only three years ago, a referee was caught by the FBI. Let's not talk about that referee placing 150 calls to Marc Foster on his "gambling only" throwaway cell. Let's not talk about the thirteen referees that were culpable. Let's not talk about how they are still all employed.

Let's not talk about the horrible out of bounds call that was blatantly obvious both in real time and on replay. Let's not talk about how it's not illegal for the NBA to fix games (this is 100% true, since it's for "entertainment purposes - like wrestling). Let's not talk about anything that would lead to better, more fair, and more balanced officiating.


Is it really that hard to believe that someone who makes $150,000 a year would be vulnerable to corruption in a sport where tens of millions are bet on every game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy

http://www.thefixisin.net/donaghy.html

Ban me if this is how things are... if we can't even discuss this kind of thing. If a post about the officiating gets a tinfoil .gif, which is enough to earn you a ban on the general forums for doing stupid .gifs, and a deleted thread (not even locked).

I can't enjoy this sport like this anymore anyway.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about...

And this is where I agree with you. This game was badly officiated both ways but I knew which ever team lost would take it worse. Its the nature of the beast but conspiracy is out of the question when a game is called so badly on both sides

Why is it a conspiracy theory though? A referee was inadvertently caught in the act by the federal government, only two years ago.

That referee blew the whistle on 13 other members of the officiating crew and they are ALL still employed without so much as even an internal investigation. I mean, cmon! The FBI obviously thought there was enough truth to his testimony to reduce his sentence.

...the only problem is that it's impossible to prove, without catching them with wiretapping, and that it's not even really illegal (as long as they are doing it for "ratings" or to keep games close).

[TyCobb]

Would you mind clarifying? I was referencing the 4th quarter call when the game was still close and Anthony knocked it out of bounds. There's absolutely no reasonable argument that you can put forth to call that ball out on Kobe, none.

Especially not with replay. If someone wants to defend the refs, please tell me how they can look at that slow motion replay and say that Kobe touched that ball last. I'd love to hear your argument.

I'll post the youtube video of it when it's available.

Please read that link I posted. It's definitely worth 10 minutes of time. It may change your outlook on the officials. I'm just frustrated that I earned a lock for wanting to talk about it.

What's wrong with discussing the officials? They have as much influence on the game as the players, if not more.

The refs probably felt that there was inconclusive evidence to overturn the call. It happens in the NFL all the time.

[DonJay21]

Pau got his Christmas wish from Santa just in time - a set of nuts

LOL

[cnv2855]

Would you mind clarifying? I was referencing the 4th quarter call when the game was still close and Anthony knocked it out of bounds. There's absolutely no reasonable argument that you can put forth to call that ball out on Kobe, none.

Especially not with replay. If someone wants to defend the refs, please tell me how they can look at that slow motion replay and say that Kobe touched that ball last. I'd love to hear your argument.

I'll post the youtube video of it when it's available.

Please read that link I posted. It's definitely worth 10 minutes of time. It may change your outlook on the officials. I'm just frustrated that I earned a lock for wanting to talk about it.

What's wrong with discussing the officials? They have as much influence on the game as the players, if not more.

The refs probably felt that there was inconclusive evidence to overturn the call. It happens in the NFL all the time.

I just really wish there was some sort of investigation or oversight on these guys. Or at least some form of scrutiny. Players can't even do it now without getting T'd up.

I mean you can agree with that, right?

[TyCobb]

The refs probably felt that there was inconclusive evidence to overturn the call. It happens in the NFL all the time.

I just really wish there was some sort of investigation or oversight on these guys. Or at least some form of scrutiny. Players can't even do it now without getting T'd up.

I mean you can agree with that, right?

Sure. But nothing ever gets done until there is a big enough uproar from media/fans. I just don't see it happening.

[Kalidogg24]

When the Lakers lose the general board has 15 threads about them losing.



When the Lakers win :

[Kalidogg24]

Pau got his Christmas wish from Santa just in time - a set of nuts

LOL

[cnv2855]

Sure. But nothing ever gets done until there is a big enough uproar from media/fans. I just don't see it happening.

Fair enough, but the starting point would be awareness and discussion amongst the hardcore fans.

Thank you for not deleting my posts and giving me a warning. Anyway, the Lakers looked good tonight.

[Sedale Threatt]

Would you mind clarifying? I was referencing the 4th quarter call when the game was still close and Anthony knocked it out of bounds. There's absolutely no reasonable argument that you can put forth to call that ball out on Kobe, none.

Especially not with replay. If someone wants to defend the refs, please tell me how they can look at that slow motion replay and say that Kobe touched that ball last. I'd love to hear your argument.

I'll post the youtube video of it when it's available.

Please read that link I posted. It's definitely worth 10 minutes of time. It may change your outlook on the officials. I'm just frustrated that I earned a lock for wanting to talk about it.

What's wrong with discussing the officials? They have as much influence on the game as the players, if not more.

I generally find discussions about the merits of officiating to be pretty pointless.

You're dealing with human beings. They're not always going to be at their best. It's frustrating, to be sure. I certainly was myself. But just like there are good and bad players, there are good and bad officials. And just like players are not always on top of their game, neither are officials. It sucks that we don't have robots who can call games perfectly, but until then this is what we're stuck with.

It's even worse when simple incompetency is twisted into some grand conspiracy theory worth composing some manifesto and swearing off the game for good. No offense, but I find that to be pretty idiotic. Hence the sig.

Frankly, NBA officiating gets a lot better when you don't care about the outcome. I've had to watch every single Spurs game this year because of my job, and I can't think of a single one I thought was legitimately influenced by the officiating.

[Anklebreaker702]

@cnv
I'm not saying that part of it is impossible. I've always said I believe the guy. The point I'm making is two fold.
1. How can there be a conspiracy when the officiating is equally bad on both sides?

2. Every loss for every team every night can't be logically deduced as conspiracy.

Some nights you play well & a bad call may prevent you from winning. Other nights all the calls seem to go against you,but if yyou're objective as a fan most times you can see where your team did enough damage to themselves that blaming the refs becomes very shallow.

[DEEP3CL]

When the Lakers lose the general board has 15 threads about them losing.



When the Lakers win :

I called that a few months ago Kali.....and some jackass named "putyomouthongame" quoted me like I said something that was stupid. We know this game all to well

[cnv2855]

Would you mind clarifying? I was referencing the 4th quarter call when the game was still close and Anthony knocked it out of bounds. There's absolutely no reasonable argument that you can put forth to call that ball out on Kobe, none.

Especially not with replay. If someone wants to defend the refs, please tell me how they can look at that slow motion replay and say that Kobe touched that ball last. I'd love to hear your argument.

I'll post the youtube video of it when it's available.

Please read that link I posted. It's definitely worth 10 minutes of time. It may change your outlook on the officials. I'm just frustrated that I earned a lock for wanting to talk about it.

What's wrong with discussing the officials? They have as much influence on the game as the players, if not more.

I generally find discussions about the merits of officiating to be pretty pointless.

You're dealing with human beings. They're not always going to be at their best. It's frustrating, to be sure. I certainly was myself. But just like there are good and bad players, there are good and bad officials. And just like players are not always on top of their game, neither are officials. It sucks that we don't have robots who can call games perfectly, but until then this is what we're stuck with.

It's even worse when simple incompetency is twisted into some grand conspiracy theory worth composing some manifesto and swearing off the game for good. No offense, but I find that to be pretty idiotic. Hence the sig.

Frankly, NBA officiating gets a lot better when you don't care about the outcome. I've had to watch every single Spurs game this year because of my job, and I can't think of a single one I thought was legitimately influenced by the officiating.

There's one game I want you to watch and send me a PM with your opinion if you can find it. It's the Grizzlies vs Nuggets game that was played a couple weeks ago...

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278055

The grizzlies shot 25 more shots than the Nuggets (94 vs 69) yet the Nuggets shot 2.6x times more free throws. The grizzlies were in the bonus with 6 minutes in the 4th, yet didn't go to the line in the entire 2nd half. Besides Gasol, the entire Grizzlies team only shot 3 free throws even though they attempted 84 shots (84 shots from everyone except Gasol).

94 shots and 10 free throws. (84 shots and 3 free throws)
69 shots and 26 free throws, most of them in the 4th in a close game.

Some obvious home cooking at the very least in that game. The Grizzlies were getting MUGGED driving to the rim and never got a call. Rudy Gay was playing very aggressively and was slammed down driving on the last play of the game... again, not a single free throw in the 4th by Memphis.

Just watch it and PM me what you think. Anyway, I've said what I needed to.

[Anklebreaker702]

@cnv
I'm not saying that part of it is impossible. I've always said I believe the guy. The point I'm making is two fold.
1. How can there be a conspiracy when the officiating is equally bad on both sides?

2. Every loss for every team every night can't be logically deduced as conspiracy.

Some nights you play well & a bad call may prevent you from winning. Other nights all the calls seem to go against you,but if yyou're objective as a fan most times you can see where your team did enough damage to themselves that blaming the refs becomes very shallow.

[dockingsched]

Would you mind clarifying? I was referencing the 4th quarter call when the game was still close and Anthony knocked it out of bounds. There's absolutely no reasonable argument that you can put forth to call that ball out on Kobe, none.

Especially not with replay. If someone wants to defend the refs, please tell me how they can look at that slow motion replay and say that Kobe touched that ball last. I'd love to hear your argument.

I'll post the youtube video of it when it's available.

Please read that link I posted. It's definitely worth 10 minutes of time. It may change your outlook on the officials. I'm just frustrated that I earned a lock for wanting to talk about it.

What's wrong with discussing the officials? They have as much influence on the game as the players, if not more.

I generally find discussions about the merits of officiating to be pretty pointless.

You're dealing with human beings. They're not always going to be at their best. It's frustrating, to be sure. I certainly was myself. But just like there are good and bad players, there are good and bad officials. And just like players are not always on top of their game, neither are officials. It sucks that we don't have robots who can call games perfectly, but until then this is what we're stuck with.

It's even worse when simple incompetency is twisted into some grand conspiracy theory worth composing some manifesto and swearing off the game for good. No offense, but I find that to be pretty idiotic. Hence the sig.

Frankly, NBA officiating gets a lot better when you don't care about the outcome. I've had to watch every single Spurs game this year because of my job, and I can't think of a single one I thought was legitimately influenced by the officiating.

There's one game I want you to watch and send me a PM with your opinion if you can find it. It's the Grizzlies vs Nuggets game that was played a couple weeks ago...

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278055

The grizzlies shot 25 more shots than the Nuggets (94 vs 69) yet the Nuggets shot 2.6x times more free throws. The grizzlies were in the bonus with 6 minutes in the 4th, yet didn't go to the line in the entire 2nd half. Besides Gasol, the entire Grizzlies team only shot 3 free throws even though they attempted 84 shots (84 shots from everyone except Gasol).

94 shots and 10 free throws.
69 shots and 26 free throws, most of them in the 4th in a close game.

Some obvious home cooking at the very least in that game. Just watch it and PM me what you think. Anyway, I've said my peace and I'm out.

obviously the team with more FT's is going to probably have less shot attempts. this isn't rocket science, lol.

[TyCobb]

There's one game I want you to watch and send me a PM with your opinion if you can find it. It's the Grizzlies vs Nuggets game that was played a couple weeks ago...

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278055

The grizzlies shot 25 more shots than the Nuggets (94 vs 69) yet the Nuggets shot 2.6x times more free throws. The grizzlies were in the bonus with 6 minutes in the 4th, yet didn't go to the line in the entire 2nd half. Besides Gasol, the entire Grizzlies team only shot 3 free throws even though they attempted 84 shots (84 shots from everyone except Gasol).

94 shots and 10 free throws.
69 shots and 26 free throws, most of them in the 4th in a close game.

Some obvious home cooking at the very least in that game. Just watch it and PM me what you think. Anyway, I've said my peace and I'm out.

I actually watched this game in its entirety. From what I can remember, the Grizzlies blew easy shots on many 2nd chance attempts. The commentators even mentioned the shot total throughout the game and were just as surprised to see the anomaly.

[cnv2855]

Yeah, Memphis tore up the boards and had a lot more shot attempts and 2nd chance attempts. But they were still fouled. I think McGee was credited with like a dozen blocks.

...I'm not a Memphis fan and I didn't care about the outcome, but I thought the game was one of the worst officiated games that I've ever watched. I mean it's like Memphis was shooting jump shots, Rudy Gay was constantly driving into the lane and getting hacked. That was probably one of his most aggressive games.

[Kalidogg24]

Great win and I think it's safe to say that we all forgot how it felt to win on Christmas. LoL

The Knicks are a just a good team this year.
There ball movement and rotations on defense is pretty ferocious when there dialed in.
I think Jason Kidd is bringing the best outta each player on that roster.
(Which I think is the same leadership Steve Nash is delivering for us)
Melo playing on Legendary mode which was fueled
during his amazing Olympics performance. It got to the point where I thought he would never miss a shot. Beast!

Great Win!!!
Would love to see these two teams meet in the Finals.

[ennui]

The obvious foul on tyson chandlers fastbreak alleyoop by jordanhill

melo being held off ball by kobe in the last two minutes

there were bad calls against both teams

[moonpie]

Merry Christmas everyone! Wow what a game huh? When Melo went on that hot stretch to start the 2nd half, you had to wonder if this was going to be the start of a very long game. But no, they kept battling back just as they did against GSW. I thought the refs were terrible overall today for both teams. Here's the sparknotes version of the recap since it's Xmas!

Kobe-
Nash-
Dwight-
Pau-
Morris-
MWP-
Meeks-
Hill-
Duhon-

[DonJay21]

Merry Christmas everyone! Wow what a game huh? When Melo went on that hot stretch to start the 2nd half, you had to wonder if this was going to be the start of a very long game. But no, they kept battling back just as they did against GSW. I thought the refs were terrible overall today for both teams. Here's the sparknotes version of the recap since it's Xmas!

Kobe-
Nash-
Dwight-
Pau-
Morris-
MWP-
Meeks-
Hill-
Duhon-

I like the face you put on Pau. I did the same Sh..T!