Lakers dropped the ball this off-season because...

[TimeisIllmatic]

because... the Lakers seem to have fell victim of the Miami Heat curse...

First Kendrick Nunn, now Gabe Vincent....

[Showtime:Part2]

Go back and check it, I got into a 4 page argument with hoosierdaddy bc I said ham needed to be fired and we focused on the wrong thing (pg instead of defensive big man for jokic). The guy and 75% of this board were so busy slobbering all over Murray they forgot who the number 1 guy in Denver is. Ham was biggest point of contention for me tho. I laid out specific targets for bigs in that thread: Reid, hartenstein, gafford. I was also absolutely irate when I saw what kp got traded for bc we could had those same assets to trade for him. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to run an nba franchise, just have to be better than daddy’s little girl who runs the team for fun.

[Showtime:Part2]

Ham should’ve been replaced. Becky Hammon, Jerry Stackhouse, Juwan Howard, Kevin Ollie.

Dude not even, nick nurse was available this last summer lmao. And we stood pat. Rmr when u and i argued w that donkey hoosierdaddy for the entire summer about how coaching does matter and how ham is bad at it? Tbh, it sucks that we have been vindicated. Don’t understand how lakers fo and some fans were so blinded to it just bc we made wcf

[danfantastk32]

Tbh, it sucks that we have been vindicated. Don’t understand how lakers fo and some fans were so blinded to it just bc we made wcf

I'm glad you feel vindicated in all this...lol. Not sure anyone thinks Ham is a great coach. But coaching isn't our issue. Our team isn't good enough. No coach is gonna fix that. Go look at Popp's record with Duncan...and his record since he left. You telling me Popp bonked his head, and forgot how to coach, and scheme?? Maybe he had one of the greatest players (and almost more importantly...a pillar in Popp's ability to enact his system and culture for over a decade) to win with? I think that prob had a little to do with it.

Ham can go for all I care. I didn't want Vogel to go. I knew it wouldnt matter. The issue was brick-boy, and the cancer his attitude brought to the squad. Ham replaced Vogel...and no difference. Brick left......won 21 of 23 (whatever it was) to make the postseason. Ham sure seemed to be fine then, no??

BTW...I don't think Vogel is an amazing coach either. But a change in coach is pretty meaningless with this squad. You can go get the best coach out there. Maybe we're 5 wins better. 5th-6th seed. Prob win a series or two. But we're still getting crushed by the better teams. And the downhill just gets lower and lower each year, with Lebron and AD racking up mileage and age.

You'll get no argument from me that there are better coaches out there. But if you think some great coach is somehow coaching this squad to a title, your totally wrong. I'd worry about other things before I got to the coach, personally. Like a new GM, a completely new squad, a major trade with AD for 1st round picks, our drafting of said picks, and moving everyone we can for whatever assets we can get. I'd like to put new owner in there...but that's not happening. After all that...let's look at replacing our coach.

Go get a new GM who's gonna competently bargain our assets, and bring in good daft picks for our future..,.should be #1 priority come Tuesday morning.

[stan francisco]

Ham should’ve been replaced. Becky Hammon, Jerry Stackhouse, Juwan Howard, Kevin Ollie.

Dude not even, nick nurse was available this last summer lmao. And we stood pat. Rmr when u and i argued w that donkey hoosierdaddy for the entire summer about how coaching does matter and how ham is bad at it? Tbh, it sucks that we have been vindicated. Don’t understand how lakers fo and some fans were so blinded to it just bc we made wcf

I’m pretty sure he was on both our lists. Edit: point being we had many better choices than Ham.

Mistake number two: D Lo. I wonder what Christie would be right now with those minutes. Or JHS.

[Showtime:Part2]

Tbh, it sucks that we have been vindicated. Don’t understand how lakers fo and some fans were so blinded to it just bc we made wcf

I'm glad you feel vindicated in all this...lol. Not sure anyone thinks Ham is a great coach. But coaching isn't our issue. Our team isn't good enough. No coach is gonna fix that. Go look at Popp's record with Duncan...and his record since he left. You telling me Popp bonked his head, and forgot how to coach, and scheme?? Maybe he had one of the greatest players (and almost more importantly...a pillar in Popp's ability to enact his system and culture for over a decade) to win with? I think that prob had a little to do with it.

Ham can go for all I care. I didn't want Vogel to go. I knew it wouldnt matter. The issue was brick-boy, and the cancer his attitude brought to the squad. Ham replaced Vogel...and no difference. Brick left......won 21 of 23 (whatever it was) to make the postseason. Ham sure seemed to be fine then, no??

BTW...I don't think Vogel is an amazing coach either. But a change in coach is pretty meaningless with this squad. You can go get the best coach out there. Maybe we're 5 wins better. 5th-6th seed. Prob win a series or two. But we're still getting crushed by the better teams. And the downhill just gets lower and lower each year, with Lebron and AD racking up mileage and age.

You'll get no argument from me that there are better coaches out there. But if you think some great coach is somehow coaching this squad to a title, your totally wrong. I'd worry about other things before I got to the coach, personally. Like a new GM, a completely new squad, a major trade with AD for 1st round picks, our drafting of said picks, and moving everyone we can for whatever assets we can get. I'd like to put new owner in there...but that's not happening. After all that...let's look at replacing our coach.

Go get a new GM who's gonna competently bargain our assets, and bring in good daft picks for our future..,.should be #1 priority come Tuesday morning.

We have led for 73% of the minutes in this series and you think coaching doesn’t matter lol. The nba playoffs is a game of the thinnest of margins. You can’t have an @ssclown for a coach and expect to win. The roster isn’t perfect but ad and lebron can win it all with a good coach on this roster. They sure as sht wouldn’t have lost game 2 and this would be a very different conversation. Like how do you come away from game 2 thinking coaching didn’t matter when we don’t challenge that stupid Murray drive with a minute to go that got them 2 fts?

[danfantastk32]

We have led for 73% of the minutes in this series and you think coaching doesn’t matter lol. The nba playoffs is a game of the thinnest of margins. You can’t have an @ssclown for a coach and expect to win. The roster isn’t perfect but ad and lebron can win it all with a good coach on this roster. They sure as sht wouldn’t have lost game 2 and this would be a very different conversation. Like how do you come away from game 2 thinking coaching didn’t matter when we don’t challenge that stupid Murray drive with a minute to go that got them 2 fts?

Because dude....if I got a blowjob everytime this chat board decided our coach was to blame, I'd be a pornstar.

And quite frankly...I don't think 80% of the people on this board would know a good coach if they saw it. Remember Luke Walton??? Everyone here "KNEW" that he was the answer. After all...the guy went 42-3 or whatever with the Warriors. You can check it...I voiced my doubts. I kept bringing up that the Warriors were an all-time squad. But NOOOOO....nobody wanted to hear it. They all knew that Walton was the next wonder coach. Well 2 years later he was the reason for everything wrong with this team. Funny how he was such a good coach with the Warriors, but decided to be a crappy coach here. Interesting that.

So then came Vogel. Our next savior. He certainly seemed to bring some defense, which was nice. Pairing AD and Lebron when there was still gas left in the tank certainly seemed to help his cause. Brought a title, and everyone was happy. FF a couple years, and we get brick the dick. Suddenly our team sucks.....and what do I hear?? I hear everyone blaming Vogel! Crazy! But thats what the vast majority of the fans here did. So we get Ham. "Thank god!" I hear everyone saying. And yet nothing changed. Then we get rid of brick...and go on a wild streak. Im hearing all sorts of great things about Ham then.

But now Ham is the reason for all our ills. Forgive me...but I've heard this song and dance before. And I dont think you know what your talking about. Little "factoids" about time in the lead are hand-picked nuggets (parden the pun) that I'd bet you never used before, but are throwing around THIS TIME...cause it seems to make a puzzle piece fit for you. I certainly don't remember anyone bringing it up last year. Last year it was "Yes, but even though we got swept, our margin of loss was the closest of any team" <----- all bunk, and lame excuses for the fact that we got swept. We got swept because they are a much better team. Just like when Dallas swept us with Phil, it wasn't because Phil forgot what he was doing, and didn't make adjustments.

Personally I dont think Ham is a good coach. I liked Vogel much more. So we can get rid of him for all I care. But if anyone thinks for one second that replacing the coach means we're good to roll this heap on back.......F that. This team doesn't have the goods. One star is old, and getting further from his prime. The other is one bad jump from sitting the entire season out. And there is nobody else on this squad who would touch the floor on one of our truly good Laker teams.

That's my point. Can the coach...I dont give a sh**. But don't try and argue that we were gonna win this thing, but for Ham. We weren't gonna come close. And I'm not gonna settle for this overplayed "it's the coach" routine. And nobody else should either.

[loveshaq007]

trade ham and Rui for portis and andre

[GopherIt!]

But ownership and guys getting paid NOT to buy the hype shoulda focused more on the reality. This team was a huge rung lower than the Nuggets. And none of our momentum or good vibes could even eek out ONE victory. And when you answer this question honestly: Did we just lose to an all-time juggernaut, or did we just beat 2 paper tigers?

Our brain trust shoulda known better. Maybe they did, and decided to enjoy the gravy-train till it derailed? Either way...here we are

without naming names, isn’t that an oxymoron?

[LAKESHOW]

We 1st of all placed too much reliance on DLo. Only to once again return to the same place as last year.
We made critical error on guard acquisition and guard evaluation. We could have fixed that.
We also made critical error by publicly announcing, that we are going to stand pat with Dlo, Rui, etc....and pretty much leave team as is. Well, the results are in, by leaving team as is from last year, we practically got the same result as is from last year. These idiots couldn't figure that 1 out. Same team expect same result. Duh.
Lastly, we need a twin towers. We should have found a way to go all in with porzingis or a giant free agent available. Leaving team as is and we got worse

[Showtime:Part2]

We have led for 73% of the minutes in this series and you think coaching doesn’t matter lol. The nba playoffs is a game of the thinnest of margins. You can’t have an @ssclown for a coach and expect to win. The roster isn’t perfect but ad and lebron can win it all with a good coach on this roster. They sure as sht wouldn’t have lost game 2 and this would be a very different conversation. Like how do you come away from game 2 thinking coaching didn’t matter when we don’t challenge that stupid Murray drive with a minute to go that got them 2 fts?

Because dude....if I got a blowjob everytime this chat board decided our coach was to blame, I'd be a pornstar.

And quite frankly...I don't think 80% of the people on this board would know a good coach if they saw it. Remember Luke Walton??? Everyone here "KNEW" that he was the answer. After all...the guy went 42-3 or whatever with the Warriors. You can check it...I voiced my doubts. I kept bringing up that the Warriors were an all-time squad. But NOOOOO....nobody wanted to hear it. They all knew that Walton was the next wonder coach. Well 2 years later he was the reason for everything wrong with this team. Funny how he was such a good coach with the Warriors, but decided to be a crappy coach here. Interesting that.

So then came Vogel. Our next savior. He certainly seemed to bring some defense, which was nice. Pairing AD and Lebron when there was still gas left in the tank certainly seemed to help his cause. Brought a title, and everyone was happy. FF a couple years, and we get brick the dick. Suddenly our team sucks.....and what do I hear?? I hear everyone blaming Vogel! Crazy! But thats what the vast majority of the fans here did. So we get Ham. "Thank god!" I hear everyone saying. And yet nothing changed. Then we get rid of brick...and go on a wild streak. Im hearing all sorts of great things about Ham then.

But now Ham is the reason for all our ills. Forgive me...but I've heard this song and dance before. And I dont think you know what your talking about. Little "factoids" about time in the lead are hand-picked nuggets (parden the pun) that I'd bet you never used before, but are throwing around THIS TIME...cause it seems to make a puzzle piece fit for you. I certainly don't remember anyone bringing it up last year. Last year it was "Yes, but even though we got swept, our margin of loss was the closest of any team" <----- all bunk, and lame excuses for the fact that we got swept. We got swept because they are a much better team. Just like when Dallas swept us with Phil, it wasn't because Phil forgot what he was doing, and didn't make adjustments.

Personally I dont think Ham is a good coach. I liked Vogel much more. So we can get rid of him for all I care. But if anyone thinks for one second that replacing the coach means we're good to roll this heap on back.......F that. This team doesn't have the goods. One star is old, and getting further from his prime. The other is one bad jump from sitting the entire season out. And there is nobody else on this squad who would touch the floor on one of our truly good Laker teams.

That's my point. Can the coach...I dont give a sh**. But don't try and argue that we were gonna win this thing, but for Ham. We weren't gonna come close. And I'm not gonna settle for this overplayed "it's the coach" routine. And nobody else should either.

Tldr/you can believe coaching wouldn’t have changed the outcome of a series we led 76% of the minutes. And I believe otherwise. End of story. Agree to disagree. I dno man it’s not like the warriors went from being losers w mark Jackson to a dynasty w Kerr? The lakers del Harris to Phil Jackson? The raptors from Dwayne Casey to nick nurse? Coaching just doesn’t make a difference yaknow?

I said it one offseason ago, I’ll say it again, a competent coach and a good center are all we need to win it all.

[danfantastk32]

I dno man it’s not like the warriors went from being losers w mark Jackson to a dynasty w Kerr? The lakers del Harris to Phil Jackson? The raptors from Dwayne Casey to nick nurse? Coaching just doesn’t make a difference yaknow?

I'm sorry....the point is moot now, as Ham is toast anyways, but those are horrible examples.

In 2011-12 The Warriors were 23-43. Curry's 3rd year. Klay Rookie. Draymond comes next year.
2012-13 they go 47-35. You got Curry in his 4th year. Good player at this point. Klay still wet behind the ears. Draymond a rookie
2013-14 they go 51-31. Getting better. Player are developing....Curry getting close to entering his prime. Team rising.
That's the team Kerr inherited.


1996-97 Lakers 56-26 Kobe, Fisher, are Rookies. Shaq's first year here.
1997-98 Lakers 61-21 Better record. Swept in the Conf finals.
1998-99 Lakers 31-19 Hard to say. Half-season due to Labor dispute. Del fired after 6-6 record. Kurt Rambis coached rest of year.
1999-2000. Phil takes over. Kobe now in 4th season. Shaq in 7th season. Entering his prime.

Nurse was first time coach. Got Kawhi (and couple other guns for hire, lets not forget)....won it all, and was fired himself like 2 years later. Nurse was just a lucky boy who hit the Kawhi lottery, won a title, and hasn't done anything since (still lot of time. Not saying he's bad or anything...but his "story" proves my point). And then the other two examples are the complete opposite of us. Those two teams were ascending....with ascending LEGEND players. We're descending players. You don't see that, eh?

But hey....you and 90% of this board got your wish. Like I said before, I don't think he's a great coach...so whatever. No loss in my book. But if the Lakers think they can grab Nurse, make a couple little tweaks...and it's back to competing for a title, they're fools. This team will be that much worse next year...thanks to Lebron being on the wrong side of the hill. And you do know AD played the most games he's EVER played in a season, right? The most. And Lebron played the most since he came here. And even with that "lighting in a bottle", we still got that little bit worse.

So think what you wanna think. But when your sitting there at the end of next year...confused as to why this team didn't get alot better after ditching that "disaster of a coach", I tried to warn you.

[Showtime:Part2]

I dno man it’s not like the warriors went from being losers w mark Jackson to a dynasty w Kerr? The lakers del Harris to Phil Jackson? The raptors from Dwayne Casey to nick nurse? Coaching just doesn’t make a difference yaknow?

I'm sorry....the point is moot now, as Ham is toast anyways, but those are horrible examples.

In 2011-12 The Warriors were 23-43. Curry's 3rd year. Klay Rookie. Draymond comes next year.
2012-13 they go 47-35. You got Curry in his 4th year. Good player at this point. Klay still wet behind the ears. Draymond a rookie
2013-14 they go 51-31. Getting better. Player are developing....Curry getting close to entering his prime. Team rising.
That's the team Kerr inherited.


1996-97 Lakers 56-26 Kobe, Fisher, are Rookies. Shaq's first year here.
1997-98 Lakers 61-21 Better record. Swept in the Conf finals.
1998-99 Lakers 31-19 Hard to say. Half-season due to Labor dispute. Del fired after 6-6 record. Kurt Rambis coached rest of year.
1999-2000. Phil takes over. Kobe now in 4th season. Shaq in 7th season. Entering his prime.

Nurse was first time coach. Got Kawhi (and couple other guns for hire, lets not forget)....won it all, and was fired himself like 2 years later. Nurse was just a lucky boy who hit the Kawhi lottery, won a title, and hasn't done anything since (still lot of time. Not saying he's bad or anything...but his "story" proves my point). And then the other two examples are the complete opposite of us. Those two teams were ascending....with ascending LEGEND players. We're descending players. You don't see that, eh?

But hey....you and 90% of this board got your wish. Like I said before, I don't think he's a great coach...so whatever. No loss in my book. But if the Lakers think they can grab Nurse, make a couple little tweaks...and it's back to competing for a title, they're fools. This team will be that much worse next year...thanks to Lebron being on the wrong side of the hill. And you do know AD played the most games he's EVER played in a season, right? The most. And Lebron played the most since he came here. And even with that "lighting in a bottle", we still got that little bit worse.

So think what you wanna think. But when your sitting there at the end of next year...confused as to why this team didn't get alot better after ditching that "disaster of a coach", I tried to warn you.

I have said since last summer we need a new coach AND a competent center. You are the only dude in realgm who think Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson added no value vs mark Jackson and del Harris lolol. Do you even hear yourself? What about doc rivers and how he clearly makes teams worse? But coaches have no impact in the nba right? How do people have these insane takes? You also had no comeback to the fact that we let 76% of the minutes of the series and lost bc we couldn’t make adjustments. When you constantly blow huge leads, that’s a coaching issue (literally what doc rivers is famous for). I also said in several posts this was our last real year to win it all that’s why we had to fire ham and get a center last offseason. Barring a trade for an all star caliber center, I don’t see it happening in the future. Also we have to stop hiring bums like Ty lue. Best guy for the job is terry stotts and he isn’t even in the conversation somehow

[loveshaq007]

how did we miss out on? Josh Hart?

went for beans and a firsr round pick

[danfantastk32]

You are the only dude in realgm who think Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson added no value vs mark Jackson and del Harris lolol. Do you even hear yourself?

You need to work on your reading comprehension if you think I think Kerr and Jackson brought no value to their teams. Can't really expand on that. You either don't know how to read well, or you're just in stubborn "make a point" mode. Either way...if your around next year, and we're somehow much better...thanks to our coach...you can let me have it.

As to that 73% statistic that you love so much.....what of it? Is that something people use to measure coach performance? You say I'm ducking it.....I say "whats your point?" Yeah...it's weird we led 3/4's of the time, and lost 4 out of 5. Are you trying to tell me that Ham had this plan to really give it 110% for 3 quarters...and then brought in out back bench? You just throw that out there: "We lead 3/4 of the time, and lost the series.....there for Ham is a bad coach" Ok....is this based on anything other than you think its strange?

And please...keep it simple. I like black and white arguments. But you know that...I'm a 100% or 0% value kinda guy...smh

[Showtime:Part2]

You are the only dude in realgm who think Steve Kerr and Phil Jackson added no value vs mark Jackson and del Harris lolol. Do you even hear yourself?

You need to work on your reading comprehension if you think I think Kerr and Jackson brought no value to their teams. Can't really expand on that. You either don't know how to read well, or you're just in stubborn "make a point" mode. Either way...if your around next year, and we're somehow much better...thanks to our coach...you can let me have it.

As to that 73% statistic that you love so much.....what of it? Is that something people use to measure coach performance? You say I'm ducking it.....I say "whats your point?" Yeah...it's weird we led 3/4's of the time, and lost 4 out of 5. Are you trying to tell me that Ham had this plan to really give it 110% for 3 quarters...and then brought in out back bench? You just throw that out there: "We lead 3/4 of the time, and lost the series.....there for Ham is a bad coach" Ok....is this based on anything other than you think its strange?

And please...keep it simple. I like black and white arguments. But you know that...I'm a 100% or 0% value kinda guy...smh

You literally spent an entire post comparing regular season records to try to suggest those teams would have done just as well without Phil and Kerr as they were maturing anyway. I mean clearly you are of the opinion coaching doesn’t matter in the nba. You’re one of those dudes, at least admit it. Otherwise it plays right into my point that we shouldn’t have lost the series leading for 76% of the minutes. A good coach would have made necessary 4th quarter adjustments and run offensive sets and called timeouts and used his challenges. A good coach would have not sent a double at jokic every time in the post so he can kick out to mpj and the rest of Denver’s shooters. It’s a game of thin margins in the post season and coaching DOES matter. And again, you’re glancing over the fact that I was literally the only dude on this board asking for a defensive big last summer while all of u were slobbering over a point of attack defensive guard

Denver is getting butt pounded by Minnesota and you can’t see that a good big man next to ad and a Chris finch level coach would have gotten us over the hump lol. I don’t know how to help ya man.

In any case it’s a moot point as I’ve said repeatedly. This was our last shot to win a title. Lebron showed another level of decline this year and it won’t get better. Barring a gift of a trade, they should rebuild but they won’t. There is literally 0% chance we get this much health from lebron and ad next year and I’d be betting on lakers to miss playoffs next year if this roster stays intact. Ad isn’t playing 70 games ever again. That shoulder injury in the 4th quarter of game 5 was it for me. Weak sauce.

[danfantastk32]

Denver is getting butt pounded by Minnesota and you can’t see that a good big man next to ad and a Chris finch level coach would have gotten us over the hump lol. I don’t know how to help ya man.

Wait...I thought I was the guy that thought coaching meant zero. Now I think the team means zero? <----- this is what I'm talking about. There's a thing called nuance, man. There is no black and white. Of course Phil is a better coach than Ham. I think this team would have done better with someone else. I already told you I dont think that much of Ham.

But going back to our prior stuff....you have to look at some of these "amazing" coaches, and also look at what they had around them. Your the one that said Mark Jackson was a bad coach, and Del Harris was bad....and then Phil and Kerr came in and then they won. Well....it's a little more nuanced than that. I showed you the numbers. Both those teams has rising Iconic players really hitting their own just as they coached that team. Would the Lakers have won that first year without Phil? Prob not. Phil made a difference. BUT....That Laker teams woulda won before too long. And your talking about prob the best coach of all time. Not just a good coach.

Truth is, Mark Jackson might not have been the one to take GS over the hump.....but he certainly built something there, and its not like Kerr took a loser, and but for his amazing coaching...they'd never have won anything. In fact, I'd say if Kerr was really an amazing coach, then they had no business losing the the Cavs the year they did. Why didn't they beat the raptors??? Oh thats right, half his star power was sidelined. Nurse was the toast of the ball after that Title. Then Kawhi left. How'd Nurse fair in T-town after that? You telling me he forgot his X's and O's?? Of course not.

Id say your team is prob about 90% what matters. Coach is 10%. (Now for a little Nuance) Maybe an exceptional coach comes along who bucks that a little bit. But yeah....we can squabble the numbers here/there, but that's prob about where its at.

Let's take our current Laker squad. If you had the choice: Phil coaches this team, or Ant-man joins.....which you taking? Ok thank you. And in that example....Phil is the greatest NBA coach of all time (if not, then undisputed top 3). And Ant-man is just an incredibly promising player. But you and I know that Edwards would make a VASTLY larger impact that Phil coaching this tired-sad squad next season.

So if you think firing the coach fixes much of anything....then to quote ya back....I don't know how to help ya man.