Looking back on the Ivaca Zubac trade 2019 - b4 the bubble chip

[SlimShady83]

I'm going to be honest here, I don't even remember this I always liked Zubac even when on the Lakers always thought he was let go and walked and don't even remember this trade OR maybe I did at the time but forgot now, time flies.

The Trade according to google was:

Ivaca Zubac for Mike Muscala and forward Michael Beasley

According to google I looked at both 2019 and 2020 roster and neither of Muscala or Beasley on the team, Wtf happened here?? maybe my research sucks haha

What was the purpose of this trade? free up roomspot for Javale/Howard?

Sure Javale/Howard helped won the 2020 bubble chip with AD pairing but going past that Zubac I think would of been better option.

According to google again haha.

Howard: Left to go team up with Harden In Houston

Javale: was eventually traded for Alfonzo McKinnie and Jordan Bell In 2020

Who again didn't seem to play for the Lakers?

Zubac stats on the Lakers weren't great only played an average of like 45 games for each of the 3 seasons don't know If this was Injury or coaches not playing him etc. I do remember him playing on Lakers and rooting for him.

How ever since playing for the clippers Zubac has averaged 11pg and 8reb 1.8 blkpg roughly 70 games per season

So In knowing all this and even though Lakers won the bubble chip with Howard/Mcgee do you think that a pairing of AD and Zubac could of won a chip or more with Lakers especially knowing AD doesn't want to play C?

Since departure of Howard/Mcgee Lakers haven't really had someone to help AD and AD doesn't want to to play C

I just finished watching the 2nd half of Mavs/Clippers final game

[danfantastk32]

So I liked Zubac prob a bit more than he deserved. I think people here massively overrate Caruso.I was that way with Zubac. I saw a ton of potential. We traded him for rubbish. Rubbish that only played about 8-12 games, if I remember right, and then left. It was the most stupid trade I can think of.

That said...if we had not traded Zubac, would we have got Howard? Would it have mattered? Im not sure. That season was a great season. Everyone came with the right vibe. Howard was a large part of that. Humbled, and ready to do what it took to win. It wasn't just his play on the court.

So I don't know. It would have been cool to keep Zubac. But in the end, he's not amazing. It's not like he turned into Hakeem, or something. And we did win a chip the way things turned out. So I learned to let it go. Hear that Caruso fan-boys?! You too can build a bridge, and get over it. There's hope =0)

[TylersLakers]

It was a brutal Magic decision. That team didn’t have a lot of shooting and they thought if they added more shooting (Muscala) they could make a run.

Add on they wanted to get rid of Beasley.

Add on I think there were real concerns they’d have the financial flexibility in the off-season to re-sign Zubac. They knew the AD trade would be coming down the road and they were worried his salary would prevent them from being able to afford a 3rd maximum player. The target was Kawhi. It was a ridiculously stupid move because A) if that happened, you could simply renounce him and let him walk. They got nothing for him anyways. B) They never ended up getting Kawhi, so he could’ve just been in the Danny Green/KCP/McGee/Cousins crop of free agents that they signed.

[SlimShady83]

That said...if we had not traded Zubac, would we have got Howard? Would it have mattered? Im not sure. That season was a great season. Everyone came with the right vibe. Howard was a large part of that. Humbled, and ready to do what it took to win. It wasn't just his play on the court.

I think they still get Howard, but Mcgee more then likely not

p.s Caruso fan here

[SlimShady83]

Add on I think there were real concerns they’d have the financial flexibility in the off-season to re-sign Zubac. They knew the AD trade would be coming down the road and they were worried his salary would prevent them from being able to afford a 3rd maximum player. The target was Kawhi. It was a ridiculously stupid move because A) if that happened, you could simply renounce him and let him walk. They got nothing for him anyways. B) They never ended up getting Kawhi, so he could’ve just been in the Danny Green/KCP/McGee/Cousins crop of free agents that they signed.

Actually all starting to come back to me now still wish they kept Zubac though. solid big next to AD

[danfantastk32]

p.s Caruso fan here

Hey...dont get me wrong. I love the Caruso story. Seems like a great dude. Super glad he got a good contract. He brought defense, the right attitude, and he did play well with Lebron. I like Caruso alot. wish he was here.

I'm in the same boat with AR15 (cant say that.....it's fun to be naughty) I think he's a good guy. He hustles...he's not a horrible 3-point shooter. He's got good B-Ball smarts, and plays well with Lebron. But would I say either of them were as impactful as say....Rick Fox? No, I wouldn't. Prob close, but not there. And while I love me some Rick Fox.....he wasn't winning/losing any titles for us. Great guy to have coming off your bench. But when I hear people bemoan the loss of Caruso 2-3 years after the fact....I think it's a little overplayed.

But not judging....I still think what could have been had we kept and developed Zubac. So it's understandable

[mastermixer]

It was a brutal Magic decision. That team didn’t have a lot of shooting and they thought if they added more shooting (Muscala) they could make a run.

Add on they wanted to get rid of Beasley.

Add on I think there were real concerns they’d have the financial flexibility in the off-season to re-sign Zubac. They knew the AD trade would be coming down the road and they were worried his salary would prevent them from being able to afford a 3rd maximum player. The target was Kawhi. It was a ridiculously stupid move because A) if that happened, you could simply renounce him and let him walk. They got nothing for him anyways. B) They never ended up getting Kawhi, so he could’ve just been in the Danny Green/KCP/McGee/Cousins crop of free agents that they signed.

This is basically how I remember it. I REALLY liked Zubac. He was the only young player that I was excited about and would annoy all my friends with ridiculously premature Andrew Bynum comparisons.

Magic basically dumped him for nothing because “spacing” and they were trying to make room for a 3rd max contract for no reason.

It was one of the worst moves I’ve ever seen a front office make in terms of just sheer lack of thought.

[TylersLakers]

It was a brutal Magic decision. That team didn’t have a lot of shooting and they thought if they added more shooting (Muscala) they could make a run.

Add on they wanted to get rid of Beasley.

Add on I think there were real concerns they’d have the financial flexibility in the off-season to re-sign Zubac. They knew the AD trade would be coming down the road and they were worried his salary would prevent them from being able to afford a 3rd maximum player. The target was Kawhi. It was a ridiculously stupid move because A) if that happened, you could simply renounce him and let him walk. They got nothing for him anyways. B) They never ended up getting Kawhi, so he could’ve just been in the Danny Green/KCP/McGee/Cousins crop of free agents that they signed.

This is basically how I remember it. I REALLY liked Zubac. He was the only young player that I was excited about and would annoy all my friends with ridiculously premature Andrew Bynum comparisons.

Magic basically dumped him for nothing because “spacing” and they were trying to make room for a 3rd max contract for no reason.

It was one of the worst moves I’ve ever seen a front office make in terms of just sheer lack of thought.

Totally man. Those moves along the margins we've completely failed at. It's the most frustrating s**t ever.

Just imagine a roster with Alex Caruso and Zubac on it the last 4-5 years. All of the replacements: G- Nunn, Walker, Vincent, Schroder x2. C- Gasol, Drummond, Jordan, Gabriel, Hayes, Wood. All of those guys wouldn't have been apart of our team and instead you just replace them with who they were supposed to replace. F***ing pathetic.

[heezyo2o]

Magic made the way for the big trade for AD and helped get Lebron, but he also made a lot of bad choices back then. Other than Zubac, Randle walked for nothing. Dlo was prematurely shipped out. Could have at least paired Dlo and Ball to see how they would work together before deciding on a trade. Magic got the Mozgov contract off the books, but giving up Dlo to do so was a poor choice. Could have at least tried for the most of the season to find another way to get rid of the contract. In the end, the Nets literally traded Mozgov for Dwight and two 2nd round picks....not a former lottery pick like the lakers did with Dlo.

I think Zubac and AD would have worked well for years. The Lakers probably still get Dwight, but the chemistry that Dwight, Javale and that whole 2020 squat was something special, so essentially giving away Zubac worked out okay. Dwight might not be as happy coming off the bench with Zubac starting. And wasn't it rumored that Javale was unhappy with Zubac getting minutes and might have been part of the reason for the trade

[dockingsched]

I always scratch my head as to why people look back so much at this trade. Zubac was set to become a free agent and Lakers weren’t going to be able to keep him cause they needed to keep their cap sheet open to keep the pressure on New Orleans to force an AD trade.

Knowing that, they traded him for a big in Muscala that may be could’ve made something happen that year. I mean to me seems like an inconsequential trade knowing Zubac was gone to keep the AD hope alive.

[Landsberger]

I like Zubac and did then. Thought it was a silly trade to get a marginal 3 point shooter who sucked on defense.

If we didn't make that trade he would have been tossed in another one. The mind set of this team is to buy rather than develop. They want stars to keep the money flowing... not developing talent.

[SlimShady83]

I always scratch my head as to why people look back so much at this trade.

To be fair I couldn't remember It that well haha, others have helpd refreshed It all

Just wish we had kept him

[danfantastk32]

Magic got the Mozgov contract off the books, but giving up Dlo to do so was a poor choice. Could have at least tried for the most of the season to find another way to get rid of the contract.

How much do you think what DLo did to Nick Young had to do with the decision? Was DLo a major distraction in the locker room? Not excusing what Magic did...but I remember not being too enamored with DLo then (much like I'm not now) and his major dick move with Young only made him more unlikable. I'd be curious to know how bad DLo's name was in the locker room before I tagged this as a Magic gaff.

Mozgov and Deng. God that was truly one of the lowest moments as a Laker fan when Mozgov joined us like 15 minutes into the window. I knew that quick, that Jim had sat his sorry ass back, and was like "boys....we did it!" He really and truly thought Mozgov was gonna change our course. So depressing. I remember alot of Laker fans trying to paint lipstick on that pig too. Truly dark days.

Prob the only thing going for Jeanie these days, is that at least she's not Jim. G-damn that guy was about as crap as it gets.

[danfantastk32]

The mind set of this team is to buy rather than develop. They want stars to keep the money flowing... not developing talent.

I will give them that this has been pretty damn successful over the last 40-some years. You have to admit it's not foolish. The bulls were dick....got Jordan...he left, and have been poop-sauce since. Spurs can join that group. So can alot of teams.....if they even had the good spell.

I think your right in that the Lakers need to keep the $$ flowing. But I think your a little cynical in that thats all they think about. I think they'd be a little dumb for not doing what's worked for so long.

Everyone was quick to anoint the Warriors as the "new face of NBA royalty".....ok, well Curry's gettin old. How they doing? How will they respond?? Just sayin.....for all the faults, and the thisses...and the thats....the Lakers have really been the gold standard for 45 years, without even a close second.

Bulls got Jordan....Warriors got Curry.....Spurs got Duncan. Little early to call the warriors, but not word-1 out of the other two....before or since. Alot of little peeps here and there. Dallas won a title with Dirk - only one since I've watched the NBA. How are the Knicks doing? How about the 6-ers?

Portland....Phoenix....Miami....Indiana. Jazz, Wolves, Bucks, Raptors.....anyone want to step to what we've done the last half-century?

Even the Celtics? 5-6 titles since the NBA-ABA joined (and then the 3point era)......we got at least 11.

Look, I've been the biggest proponent of the rebuild around here for the last year.......but even I gotta admit, this star-thing isn't without merit. It's time may have come, and maybe things arent so simple now......but I can't quite call them stupid yet for clinging onto this course of action. It's worked mightily well for a long time.

[Landsberger]

The mind set of this team is to buy rather than develop. They want stars to keep the money flowing... not developing talent.

I will give them that this has been pretty damn successful over the last 40-some years. You have to admit it's not foolish. The bulls were dick....got Jordan...he left, and have been poop-sauce since. Spurs can join that group. So can alot of teams.....if they even had the good spell.

I think your right in that the Lakers need to keep the $$ flowing. But I think your a little cynical in that thats all they think about. I think they'd be a little dumb for not doing what's worked for so long.

Everyone was quick to anoint the Warriors as the "new face of NBA royalty".....ok, well Curry's gettin old. How they doing? How will they respond?? Just sayin.....for all the faults, and the thisses...and the thats....the Lakers have really been the gold standard for 45 years, without even a close second.

Bulls got Jordan....Warriors got Curry.....Spurs got Duncan. Little early to call the warriors, but not word-1 out of the other two....before or since. Alot of little peeps here and there. Dallas won a title with Dirk - only one since I've watched the NBA. How are the Knicks doing? How about the 6-ers?

Portland....Phoenix....Miami....Indiana. Jazz, Wolves, Bucks, Raptors.....anyone want to step to what we've done the last half-century?

Even the Celtics? 5-6 titles since the NBA-ABA joined (and then the 3point era)......we got at least 11.

Look, I've been the biggest proponent of the rebuild around here for the last year.......but even I gotta admit, this star-thing isn't without merit. It's time may have come, and maybe things arent so simple now......but I can't quite call them stupid yet for clinging onto this course of action. It's worked mightily well for a long time.

Why look back? That's a different economic reality and a different league. Different Laker decision makers too.

The "star" think is a good thing when your star is in their prime. A star in their prime isn't gettable if they are a leader and others want to play with them. All that's on the "market" are marginal scorers who cash in on promise. Like Davis for example.

LeBron is unique in that there is no other player of his type in the NBA any longer. Bron is what he is.... and right now he's a declining quickly former great... who's still one of the top 5 players in the league. That's where the NBA and the team is. Cash him in if possible. Definitely cash Davis in. If you trade Davis for young talent and a couple picks LeBron would want out. That wouldn't be a bad thing in my book. They are not winning another one... riding them into the ground is one way forward. Not the one I want the team to take.

[danfantastk32]

Why look back? That's a different economic reality and a different league. Different Laker decision makers too.

The "star" think is a good thing when your star is in their prime. A star in their prime isn't gettable if they are a leader and others want to play with them. All that's on the "market" are marginal scorers who cash in on promise. Like Davis for example.

LeBron is unique in that there is no other player of his type in the NBA any longer. Bron is what he is.... and right now he's a declining quickly former great... who's still one of the top 5 players in the league. That's where the NBA and the team is. Cash him in if possible. Definitely cash Davis in. If you trade Davis for young talent and a couple picks LeBron would want out. That wouldn't be a bad thing in my book. They are not winning another one... riding them into the ground is one way forward. Not the one I want the team to take.

Preach on! No, listen....I'm 110% right there with you. It's the right time to sell. And I do think things have changed in the NBA. I'm just saying I think the FO can be excused a little for holding on. While your 100% right that the Lakers are a little shallow in the pockets, and I think they rely on this income.....they already have that 20-year tv deal....the line for season-tickets is a mile long. For every guy that says "screw this...Im out" there are 10 loaded hollywood types ready to snatch the seat. So while income is a factor...I don't think the Lakers feel that if Lebron leaves, it all comes crashing down.

I think they understand the model of having superstars...and keeping that brand. And I also bet if you sat down with Jeanie...she'd point out that they won a title grabbing the stars. She'd tell you if AD hadn't got hurt, they prob woulda won that next year (not unreasonable) and she'd also prob point out that if they'd got the right star, instead of Westbrick......there mighta been a 3rd (hard to say, but again, not unreasonable).

There;s a few "woulda - coulda - shoulda's" in there, I admit that.....but If things had gone just a little differently, a little better luck, it's not unreasonable to say this team prob coulda pulled off 3 titles. At least 2. So I'm not so sure the 'star model' is as dead as it seems.

But just to affirm where I'm at: all that woulda-coulda stuff is 3-4 years in the rearview now. I agree that Lebron's decline is now too far, and getting worse. And as your stated in other posts....he refuses to change his game. And we both know AD can't be moved fast enough. He's gonna go down with something sooner or later, and best to let the next team deal with it. So yes....I am 1000% in the rebuild camp. If for nothing else than I don't particularly like this team either.

Just saying, I think the FO has a good argument with this star stuff. I don't think it's dead. It;s just trickier to pull off. Maybe we can agree on that?

[danfantastk32]

PS: you do bring up a good point with the "different Laker decision makers".

It's not lost on me that this whole thing was built in Magic's short window here. They were a floundering mess when Jeanie had lunch and cried and begged Magic to come help. I know your not a big Magic guy, and I also know that Magic made some dumb decisions too. But it did go from a can of ASS, to the essential structure of this run (yes Davis came 2 months later technically...and I know there is some argument that Lebron had already chose Lakers, etc etc....but even still, it all worked out, all just so happened to get done under him). And since then, it's been a can of Ass all over again. Getting Westbrick was a disaster that killed any hope of another ring.

So you are right about that. This team most definitely needs better leadership if it were to try and make the Star thing happen. But....wouldn't you say the same, doubly so, for a full rebuild? It's my biggest trepidation on this rebuild thing. I think these guys will screw it up big time. I think getting some new minds up in the FO is #1.....no matter what they decide to do.

[Landsberger]

PS: you do bring up a good point with the "different Laker decision makers".

It's not lost on me that this whole thing was built in Magic's short window here. They were a floundering mess when Jeanie had lunch and cried and begged Magic to come help. I know your not a big Magic guy, and I also know that Magic made some dumb decisions too. But it did go from a can of ASS, to the essential structure of this run (yes Davis came 2 months later technically...and I know there is some argument that Lebron had already chose Lakers, etc etc....but even still, it all worked out, all just so happened to get done under him). And since then, it's been a can of Ass all over again. Getting Westbrick was a disaster that killed any hope of another ring.

So you are right about that. This team most definitely needs better leadership if it were to try and make the Star thing happen. But....wouldn't you say the same, doubly so, for a full rebuild? It's my biggest trepidation on this rebuild thing. I think these guys will screw it up big time. I think getting some new minds up in the FO is #1.....no matter what they decide to do.

The rebuild need is top down...

[danfantastk32]

PS: you do bring up a good point with the "different Laker decision makers".

It's not lost on me that this whole thing was built in Magic's short window here. They were a floundering mess when Jeanie had lunch and cried and begged Magic to come help. I know your not a big Magic guy, and I also know that Magic made some dumb decisions too. But it did go from a can of ASS, to the essential structure of this run (yes Davis came 2 months later technically...and I know there is some argument that Lebron had already chose Lakers, etc etc....but even still, it all worked out, all just so happened to get done under him). And since then, it's been a can of Ass all over again. Getting Westbrick was a disaster that killed any hope of another ring.

So you are right about that. This team most definitely needs better leadership if it were to try and make the Star thing happen. But....wouldn't you say the same, doubly so, for a full rebuild? It's my biggest trepidation on this rebuild thing. I think these guys will screw it up big time. I think getting some new minds up in the FO is #1.....no matter what they decide to do.

The rebuild need is top down...

Wait..didnt you hear? We fired our coach! All our problems are solved!

[heezyo2o]

Magic got the Mozgov contract off the books, but giving up Dlo to do so was a poor choice. Could have at least tried for the most of the season to find another way to get rid of the contract.

How much do you think what DLo did to Nick Young had to do with the decision? Was DLo a major distraction in the locker room? Not excusing what Magic did...but I remember not being too enamored with DLo then (much like I'm not now) and his major dick move with Young only made him more unlikable. I'd be curious to know how bad DLo's name was in the locker room before I tagged this as a Magic gaff.

Mozgov and Deng. God that was truly one of the lowest moments as a Laker fan when Mozgov joined us like 15 minutes into the window. I knew that quick, that Jim had sat his sorry ass back, and was like "boys....we did it!" He really and truly thought Mozgov was gonna change our course. So depressing. I remember alot of Laker fans trying to paint lipstick on that pig too. Truly dark days.

Prob the only thing going for Jeanie these days, is that at least she's not Jim. G-damn that guy was about as crap as it gets.

Dlo probably caused issues in the locker room the season before, but the Nick Young was gone the next season so I don't think it really mattered anymore. Dlo had great chemistry with the young core in Brooklyn, so you either think your young 20 year old lottery pick will mature or at the least get more value when you ship him out.

Even if Dlo was a concern, Magic already had ideas of trading for a star to pair with Lebron anyhow, so they could have thrown Dlo in the AD trade and perhaps kept Ingram