Memphis - Toronto

[MessiahUjiri]

Memphis wants to compete. They want a C since Stevens departed, and they will dangle the #7 for this. They also have like 5 PFs on the roster.


Toronto is rebuilding. They will dangle Poeltl for youth and picks.


Jak Poeltl + #19
for
#7, Santi Aldama, salary (Luke Kennard)


Grizz move back in the draft, and pickup a starting C.

Raps get youth and picks. Ideally there’s a C available around this pick or their own pick (Clingan?).

[Texas Chuck]

Massive, massive overpay by Memphis. Plus by having them use a guy whose option they aren't going to pick up you send them into tax on top of having them overpay asset wise.

I don't have Memphis considering a deal structured anything like this. They might take Poeltl, but not at the cost of a mid lottery pick and starting a tax clock a year early.

[Godaddycurse]

Massive, massive overpay by Memphis. Plus by having them use a guy whose option they aren't going to pick up you send them into tax on top of having them overpay asset wise.

I don't have Memphis considering a deal structured anything like this. They might take Poeltl, but not at the cost of a mid lottery pick and starting a tax clock a year early.

this feels like an over the board/ridiculous counter offer in response to your other thread lol

[MessiahUjiri]

Massive, massive overpay by Memphis. Plus by having them use a guy whose option they aren't going to pick up you send them into tax on top of having them overpay asset wise.

I don't have Memphis considering a deal structured anything like this. They might take Poeltl, but not at the cost of a mid lottery pick and starting a tax clock a year early.

If the tax is a concern, Raps can easily absorb contracts. They are under the tax, and also have a 10M TPE. I don’t know Grizzlies plans for Konchar or DRose, but either or both can be absorbed.

[Texas Chuck]

Massive, massive overpay by Memphis. Plus by having them use a guy whose option they aren't going to pick up you send them into tax on top of having them overpay asset wise.

I don't have Memphis considering a deal structured anything like this. They might take Poeltl, but not at the cost of a mid lottery pick and starting a tax clock a year early.

this feels like an over the board/ridiculous counter offer in response to your other thread lol

So you are saying this my fault? My bad my bad.

[psman2]

Zero chance we downgrade a lottery pick even in this "bad draft" for Poeltl. I know what Toronto paid and feel sorry that their GM made that mistake, but this is not his trade value. Santi and some 2nds would likely be the offer here or just salary and a LP future 1st if a trade is made. But I think as of right now we likely are drafting a center and getting a cheap guy like Goga to play 15-20 minutes with the MLE.

[balsamic_ducks]

Just because Masai overpaid for Poeltl doesn’t mean another GM will. This is a massive overpay

[MessiahUjiri]

Zero chance we downgrade a lottery pick even in this "bad draft" for Poeltl. I know what Toronto paid and feel sorry that their GM made that mistake, but this is not his trade value. Santi and some 2nds would likely be the offer here or just salary and a LP future 1st if a trade is made. But I think as of right now we likely are drafting a center and getting a cheap guy like Goga to play 15-20 minutes with the MLE.

In this draft, past the top 5 picks the talent difference is less between #7 and #19 compared to other drafts.

But I can see your point in renouncing Kennard and signing a backup C.


I do strongly see the Grizz trading the #7. You’re not getting a star realistically, and this might be the best asset to round out a championship contending roster.

[esvl]

#7 2024 > Aldama > Poeltl > #19 2024

[wegotthabeet]

2025 lottery protected first for Pöltl seems more reasonable.

Memphis gets a rotation center and uses the 2024 pick on someone like Sheppard, Dillingham, Castle etc..

[jayjaysee]

The third tier goes through pick 58..

But… What if Toronto added the 2026 Indy pick and it was Clarke instead of Luke (who will be a free agent IMO)

Toronto could add stronger protection on the 2026 first, call it top 10 for a year and if it conveys to Toronto, Memphis gets the Toronto 2027 or something complicated like that.

Also think it’s more likely to be Rose or Konchar than Aldama...

[jbk1234]

I don't know, this is really going to depend on the Grizzlies draft board and whether the Raptors will take back a little more money to get the Grizzlies under the tax.

If my board is pretty flat, I'm doing this rather than encumbering a future first going forward. It just really depends on the lottery results and how much they value who's there.

[Ell Curry]

I don't know, this is really going to depend on the Grizzlies draft board and whether the Raptors will take back a little more money to get the Grizzlies under the tax.

If my board is pretty flat, I'm doing this rather than encumbering a future first going forward. It just really depends on the lottery results and how much they value who's there.

Lottery will impact things, but if Clingan is off the board by the time Memphis picks there's really no center out there for them, so I don't think this deal is crazy. Memphis might literally get the same center at #7 as #19.

I do think it might need a bit more for Memphis, like Toronto (or a 3rd team) taking on Konchar's contract instead of Aldama and Zaire Williams in the deal to save Memphis some money and open up the MLE. Toronto can do this by just cutting Bruce Brown.

So, #7 + Kennard + Zaire + Konchar for Poeltl + #19 and Memphis looks like this:

Poeltl-Clarke
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Ja-____

and Memphis can still use the full MLE to use on a PG as Ja insurance (or a 2 if Smart plays PG) and end up under the tax if my math is right (like 165M?). Draft a raw center at #19 like Missi or Ware and develop him probably.

Conversely, maybe Memphis just moves a future pick and moves up for Clingan, I could see Washington trading down for a future 1st for example, even say a top 7 protected one.

[psman2]

I don't know, this is really going to depend on the Grizzlies draft board and whether the Raptors will take back a little more money to get the Grizzlies under the tax.

If my board is pretty flat, I'm doing this rather than encumbering a future first going forward. It just really depends on the lottery results and how much they value who's there.

Lottery will impact things, but if Clingan is off the board by the time Memphis picks there's really no center out there for them, so I don't think this deal is crazy. Memphis might literally get the same center at #7 as #19.

I do think it might need a bit more for Memphis, like Toronto (or a 3rd team) taking on Konchar's contract instead of Aldama and Zaire Williams in the deal to save Memphis some money and open up the MLE. Toronto can do this by just cutting Bruce Brown.

So, #7 + Kennard + Zaire + Konchar for Poeltl + #19 and Memphis looks like this:

Poeltl-Clarke
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Ja-____

and Memphis can still use the full MLE to use on a PG as Ja insurance (or a 2 if Smart plays PG) and end up under the tax if my math is right (like 165M?). Draft a raw center at #19 like Missi or Ware and develop him probably.

Conversely, maybe Memphis just moves a future pick and moves up for Clingan, I could see Washington trading down for a future 1st for example, even say a top 7 protected one.

I don't think Memphis is dead set on drafting a center. I think Clingan is an obvious target but I think they will be several non center prospects in the draft that will be just fine with selecting in that range.

If Memphis made your trade above then after the money for picks 19/38 gtd contract that would put us right under the tax with the roster charges to get to 15 players. There would be no using the MLE and staying out of the tax. I think if our goal is to stay out of the tax then a Poeltl trade is very highly unlikely to happen.

[Ell Curry]

I don't know, this is really going to depend on the Grizzlies draft board and whether the Raptors will take back a little more money to get the Grizzlies under the tax.

If my board is pretty flat, I'm doing this rather than encumbering a future first going forward. It just really depends on the lottery results and how much they value who's there.

Lottery will impact things, but if Clingan is off the board by the time Memphis picks there's really no center out there for them, so I don't think this deal is crazy. Memphis might literally get the same center at #7 as #19.

I do think it might need a bit more for Memphis, like Toronto (or a 3rd team) taking on Konchar's contract instead of Aldama and Zaire Williams in the deal to save Memphis some money and open up the MLE. Toronto can do this by just cutting Bruce Brown.

So, #7 + Kennard + Zaire + Konchar for Poeltl + #19 and Memphis looks like this:

Poeltl-Clarke
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Ja-____

and Memphis can still use the full MLE to use on a PG as Ja insurance (or a 2 if Smart plays PG) and end up under the tax if my math is right (like 165M?). Draft a raw center at #19 like Missi or Ware and develop him probably.

Conversely, maybe Memphis just moves a future pick and moves up for Clingan, I could see Washington trading down for a future 1st for example, even say a top 7 protected one.

I don't think Memphis is dead set on drafting a center. I think Clingan is an obvious target but I think they will be several non center prospects in the draft that will be just fine with selecting in that range.

If Memphis made your trade above then after the money for picks 19/38 gtd contract that would put us right under the tax with the roster charges to get to 15 players. There would be no using the MLE and staying out of the tax. I think if our goal is to stay out of the tax then a Poeltl trade is very highly unlikely to happen.

You're right, I did the math wrong. Clarke would need to be in the deal too for the MLE to open up.

Maybe it's something like:
1) #7 + Clarke + Kennard + Konchar for Poeltl, #19
2) Zaire Williams + Rose + 3 2nd rounders for Nick Richards

and then you're at like 160M and can grab a backup PG for 8M (FA or trade) or so and stay under the tax, draft his successor

Poeltl-Richards
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Morant-10M PG

[BK_2020]

In 2017, Portland traded 15 and 20 to move up to 10. Poeltl and 19 don't get you to 7.

[QMemphis]

Doubt the Grizz want to pay this type of player 20 million a year. The original trade offer is outrageous overpay lol.

Trade would be Luke/Konchar/Ziaire 25 1st for Poeltl. Raptors can also get value out Luke moving him to a third team. Konchar contract you eat 3/18 still a useful player and Ziaire is expiring but a swing at a tall wing.

[psman2]

Lottery will impact things, but if Clingan is off the board by the time Memphis picks there's really no center out there for them, so I don't think this deal is crazy. Memphis might literally get the same center at #7 as #19.

I do think it might need a bit more for Memphis, like Toronto (or a 3rd team) taking on Konchar's contract instead of Aldama and Zaire Williams in the deal to save Memphis some money and open up the MLE. Toronto can do this by just cutting Bruce Brown.

So, #7 + Kennard + Zaire + Konchar for Poeltl + #19 and Memphis looks like this:

Poeltl-Clarke
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Ja-____

and Memphis can still use the full MLE to use on a PG as Ja insurance (or a 2 if Smart plays PG) and end up under the tax if my math is right (like 165M?). Draft a raw center at #19 like Missi or Ware and develop him probably.

Conversely, maybe Memphis just moves a future pick and moves up for Clingan, I could see Washington trading down for a future 1st for example, even say a top 7 protected one.

I don't think Memphis is dead set on drafting a center. I think Clingan is an obvious target but I think they will be several non center prospects in the draft that will be just fine with selecting in that range.

If Memphis made your trade above then after the money for picks 19/38 gtd contract that would put us right under the tax with the roster charges to get to 15 players. There would be no using the MLE and staying out of the tax. I think if our goal is to stay out of the tax then a Poeltl trade is very highly unlikely to happen.

You're right, I did the math wrong. Clarke would need to be in the deal too for the MLE to open up.

Maybe it's something like:
1) #7 + Clarke + Kennard + Konchar for Poeltl, #19
2) Zaire Williams + Rose + 3 2nd rounders for Nick Richards

and then you're at like 160M and can grab a backup PG for 8M (FA or trade) or so and stay under the tax, draft his successor

Poeltl-Richards
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Morant-10M PG

But we actually value Clarke and in no way would want to include him in a trade like this. We are looking for another 20-25 minute frontcourt player in addition to Clarke's 20-25 minutes. Richards is not someone I would want to go into the season with depending on him to be a big rotation player, fine as a deep roster guy. I think if dodging the tax is really going to be a thing (I don't think it is) then we keep our lottery pick, release Kennard, pay to dump Zaire and then go shopping with the full MLE...that would leave us right under the tax. Depending on the draft something like Jalen Smith/Goga combo is what we would be looking at.

I think we choose 7/Clarke/MLE signings over Poeltl/19 everyday.

[QMemphis]

I don't know, this is really going to depend on the Grizzlies draft board and whether the Raptors will take back a little more money to get the Grizzlies under the tax.

If my board is pretty flat, I'm doing this rather than encumbering a future first going forward. It just really depends on the lottery results and how much they value who's there.

Lottery will impact things, but if Clingan is off the board by the time Memphis picks there's really no center out there for them, so I don't think this deal is crazy. Memphis might literally get the same center at #7 as #19.

I do think it might need a bit more for Memphis, like Toronto (or a 3rd team) taking on Konchar's contract instead of Aldama and Zaire Williams in the deal to save Memphis some money and open up the MLE. Toronto can do this by just cutting Bruce Brown.

So, #7 + Kennard + Zaire + Konchar for Poeltl + #19 and Memphis looks like this:

Poeltl-Clarke
JJJ-Aldama
Bane-GG
Smart-VMW
Ja-____

and Memphis can still use the full MLE to use on a PG as Ja insurance (or a 2 if Smart plays PG) and end up under the tax if my math is right (like 165M?). Draft a raw center at #19 like Missi or Ware and develop him probably.

Conversely, maybe Memphis just moves a future pick and moves up for Clingan, I could see Washington trading down for a future 1st for example, even say a top 7 protected one.

We have a number of avenues to target a center not just the draft. We surely will take the BPA not sell ourselves short for an average center getting overpaid at that.

[Duffman100]

#7 2024 > Aldama > Poeltl > #19 2024

I don't think Memphis should do this deal.

But Aldama > Poeltl? Huh?