Kings - Bulls - Grizz: Re-tooling Bulls, Rebuilding Sac/Mem

Post #21 » by **gswhoops** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:47 am

^ Maybe, but they could potentially throw one of those guys in the Memphis deal and get Mike Miller out, who IMO is much better than Salmons.

Post #22 » by **coldfish** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:56 am

Smills91 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How exactly is moving John Salmons for either Noah or Thomas considered Highway robbery again? Last time I checked, Salmons is the guy that's actually proven something in the league over a consistent amount of time, plays both ends of the floor and fills a GLARING hole in the Chicago roster. Where again is this highway robberty for a team looking to add a Gasol and begin winning NOW?

Would you give up the King's draft pick this year for Jason Kapono?
How about Hawes for Mo Peterson?

Didn't think so.

Salmons is having one hell of a year, but other than the last two months he has been an 8th man type player for the last 5 years with a career average less than 7 and 3. You don't give up 22 and 21 year old big men for that.

Next note:
You notice that Sacramento and Memphis are exchanging nothing. Its not a single trade, its just two combined. One of which is a very good idea for Chicago (with Memphis), the other, not so much.

Last note:
As I look this up, I see that Tyrus Thomas has better CAREER numbers than Salmons. This trade is so bad its comical. If the Bulls wanted a big 2, they could just play Thomas there. He is faster than Salmons.

Career stats:
Thomas 6.2p 4.7r 1.1a 0.85blk 0.7s 47%fg 14.7mpg
Salmons 6.7p 2.6r 2.2a 0.23blk 0.8s 44%fg 21.3mpg

brock · Post #23 » by **brock** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 3:25 am

Sacramento can be removed completely, no doubt..

but memphis needs more..than

Nocioni
Noah or Thomas
change..

It has to be

1.Gordon or a #1
2.Nocioni
3.Thomas or Noah

for Gasol and Navarro

SacKingZZZ · Post #24 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:48 am

coldfish wrote:LOL. This is like the mafia coming in and skimming profits by gunpoint. Why is Sacramento involved again?-= original quote snipped =-

Paxson commented specifically on this in public after Skiles was let go. He had positive things to say about Tyrus to the point where is sounded like Skiles' handling of Tyrus contributed to his firing.

Probably to give the Bulls a legit 2 gaurd that doesn't need high heels to ride the roller coaster.

SacKingZZZ · Post #25 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:50 am

gswhoops wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It's considered highway robbery when you're getting a recent lotto pick for a role player. Salmons is a role player, nothing more. A nice one, sure, but not a guy you trade a recent lotto pick for.

It'd be like offering Earl Watson for Acie Law...sure, Watson is probably better now, but Law has much more upside.

I hate to break it to you but Tyrus is a role player of the highest ilk. I don't know how much Salmons is a role player anymore. He certainly is playing at at least a star type level as a starter.

Post #26 » by **pillwenney** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:49 am

coldfish wrote:Would you give up the King's draft pick this year for Jason Kapono?
How about Hawes for Mo Peterson?

We're not really looking to win now, and Salmons is clearly better than both Kapono and Peterson by a considerable margin, while Tyrus' value isn't really a whole lot greater than Hawes or our pick.

Didn't think so.

Salmons is having one hell of a year, but other than the last two months he has been an 8th man type player for the last 5 years with a career average less than 7 and 3. You don't give up 22 and 21 year old big men for that.

So because he was in a s**tty situation in the beginning of his career, that's the type of player he is? What he was two years ago is pretty irrelevant from what I can see. What he is now is very, very good.

Next note:
You notice that Sacramento and Memphis are exchanging nothing. Its not a single trade, its just two combined. One of which is a very good idea for Chicago (with Memphis), the other, not so much.

Last note:
As I look this up, I see that Tyrus Thomas has better CAREER numbers than Salmons. This trade is so bad its comical. If the Bulls wanted a big 2, they could just play Thomas there. He is faster than Salmons.

Oh please. Using Salmons' Philly years to judge his career is just silly. He was a God awful fit next to AI, and he has proven that in the right situation he can really, really play.

Career stats:
Thomas 6.2p 4.7r 1.1a 0.85blk 0.7s 47%fg 14.7mpg
Salmons 6.7p 2.6r 2.2a 0.23blk 0.8s 44%fg 21.3mpg

I'm not saying that Chicago should do this trade at all. I just think some of your views on Salmons are pretty misguided. He's not just some guy that is scoring more because other players on his team are injured (if he were, you'd think his percentages wouldn't be so ridiculous for a perimeter player--especially since defenses really have been focusing on him lately). He is proving to be fantastic in every phase of the game right now.

sackings916 · Post #27 » by **sackings916** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:41 am

^ dropped the HAMMER on that one

Post #28 » by **coldfish** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 12:07 pm

mitchweber wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm not saying that Chicago should do this trade at all. I just think some of your views on Salmons are pretty misguided. He's not just some guy that is scoring more because other players on his team are injured (if he were, you'd think his percentages wouldn't be so ridiculous for a perimeter player--especially since defenses really have been focusing on him lately). He is proving to be fantastic in every phase of the game right now.

PER by year for Salmons:
9.5, 10.6, 9.7, 10.7, 12.7, 17.8

I don't dispute that Salmons is playing very well right now. That being said, he was a pretty poor NBA player consistently for 5 years. If he keeps playing like this for an extended period of time, then his value will go up. However, two months of good play does not raise up your value that much.

I would hope that NBA GM's are not complete idiots and just go out and give up 21 year old lottery picks for guys who just got hot. There are plenty of examples of it happening in the past, only to have them come back down. Look at Flip Murray a few years ago. If Salmons can continue to prove that he is the new and improved version, then Sacramento has one hell of a player, but no GM is going to risk it right now.

Cliff Levingston · Post #29 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 4:06 pm

It puts the Bulls firmly in win now mode. But since we're not any better than Detroit or Boston after this, it's kind of pointless. We'd be better off dumping some long term/bigger contracts and going with another youht movement.

Post #30 » by **coldfish** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 4:17 pm

If anything, the Salmons discussion is a good reason why Chicago should keep its young players. Young guys do get better, even if it takes them some time.

As Cliff said, Chicago should be dumping the older guys right now because the team isn't going anywhere right now.

My mortal fear is watching the Bulls dump young guys for vets, only to watch Chicago still be mediocre while the young guys blow up in their new situations. See Artest, Brand and Chandler.