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babyjax13 wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

NYG wrote:Part of me wonders if Atlanta is just better off rebuilding? I don't see anyone realistic that upgrades their chances to win and I don't see Trae being content feeling like he can't win. If they went rebuild between Trae and Dejounte, they could get a nice haul.

Let's say the rebuilding teams this off-season are Chicago, Toronto and Washington... which players would be upgrades from those teams for Atlanta?

Atlanta can add Lauri or Bridges without trading Trae, Jalen, or Murray.. If you trade Murray and your picks, you can land a better star..

Atlanta should definitely explore ways to win a title before ways to get to tank for 5 years.

I can't imagine an acceptable direct trade between Atlanta and Utah for Lauri that doesn't include either Johnson or Trae. Their only hope is getting assets by trading their other guys, but I don't think many of them have a ton of value.

I don’t know if it would be a direct trade or not..so I can accept it would have to be a three te trade.

But Atlanta has their own 2029 and 2031 firsts and two clean swaps in 28/30, they have two 2024 firsts, or will be able to trade Sacs 2025 first.. Griffin, Kobe Bufkin.. whichever of Capela/Bogdan/OO that they use for salary matching will add value..

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:

basketballwacko2 wrote:
I think the only way they trade Young is if the Spurs want him and are willing to trade the Hawks picks and Swap back to them as part of a package.

I think that type of package makes the deal very difficult from ATL's side. I'm not saying the value is bad but the optics look terrible. How do you sell your fanbase on trading your star player... for your own picks back?

It’s actually not that bad.

Consider this package:

Devin Vassell
Tre Jones
‘25 better of ATL/SAS pick
‘26 swap rights to SAS (ie reverse the current swap rights)
‘26 CHI pick (top 8 protected)



Vassell would fit right into the starting lineup. Tre becomes backup PG, and he also expires so ATL has the option to resign him or let him walk if they are tax conscious. Bufkin should be ready by year 3 to be the backup PG.


Dejounte / Tre / Bufkin
Vassell / Bogdanovic
DeAndre / AJ
JJohnson / Saddiq
Capela / Okongwu



They would have tons of picks. May become one of the top 3-4 “pick rich” teams in the league.

I think the deal from Spurs is:
Vassell + Jones (or Graham)
#3 (24 Spurs 1st) for #18 (24 Kings 1st via Hawks)
2x Hawks 1sts and 1x Swap Returned

Then the real negotiations start. Add another 1st (25 Raps or Bulls 1st) or swap (best of 25 from 3x 1sts Spurs own) or more youth (Champagnie or Sochan). Or nothing.

I think the Spurs would be insane not to do everything in their power to get Trae. They have a guy who is probably going to be the best PnR center in the history of the game. Trae is arguably the greatest PnR guard in the history of the game. To not link them up when you have the chance would be insanely irresponsible.

I don't care how many draft picks SAS has. The odds of them getting a better partner for Wemby with even 20 FRPs in the next 3 years are slim to none.



Honestly this reminds me of my time following the Detroit Lions when they had Barry Sanders. They had the best running back in the history of the game, yet they never once drafted an offensive lineman in the first round in the 10 years Barry was there. Well, they did once but traded him on draft day for a defensive player so that doesn't count. If you have a player like Barry Sanders or Wemby you need to do whatever you can to make his job easier and more productive. For SAS that means getting him a good PnR partner. And here they have a chance at getting the best PnR partner. Gotta get it done.

Trae paired with Wemby just seems like a "if you build it they will come" situation. I don't think the Spurs should be overly concerned about "overpaying" for Young.

You get those pieces together and the rest will work itself out if you have a good coach and front office - which by all accounts the Spurs do have.


I'd also get crazy if I were Memphis and explore a Morant for Young swap. JJJ and Young would similarly be a great pick and roll/pop combination and Memphis already has other complimentary pieces like Smart and Bane in place ready to go and it moves them on from the Morant saga.

drosestruts wrote:Trae paired with Wemby just seems like a "if you build it they will come" situation. I don't think the Spurs should be overly concerned about "overpaying" for Young.

You get those pieces together and the rest will work itself out if you have a good coach and front office - which by all accounts the Spurs do have.

Spurs have assets for two stars. Trae and ______

jayjaysee wrote:But Atlanta has their own 2029 and 2031 firsts and two clean swaps in 28/30, they have two 2024 firsts, or will be able to trade Sacs 2025 first.. Griffin, Kobe Bufkin.. whichever of Capela/Bogdan/OO that they use for salary matching will add value..

I cannot imagine Utah would trade Lauri with the prime assets being 29/31 1sts and swaps. The 2024 picks (10 & 18) won't be highly valued and how much value do Griffin/Bufkin have?

If that's all it takes to get Lauri, I think a lot of teams would beat it.

Euphonetiks wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:But Atlanta has their own 2029 and 2031 firsts and two clean swaps in 28/30, they have two 2024 firsts, or will be able to trade Sacs 2025 first.. Griffin, Kobe Bufkin.. whichever of Capela/Bogdan/OO that they use for salary matching will add value..

I cannot imagine Utah would trade Lauri with the prime assets being 29/31 1sts and swaps. The 2024 picks (10 & 18) won't be highly valued and how much value do Griffin/Bufkin have?

If that's all it takes to get Lauri, I think a lot of teams would beat it.

I’m not sure why that’s not enough for an expiring secondary star. Nor do I think the 10th pick in this draft would be valued as lowly as some feel it would be.

I think 4 firsts and 2 swaps would be a really competitive offer without anything else included. Not an Atlanta or a Utah fan, just looking at it from an outsider.

And the matching salary (Capela < Bogdan << OO probably?) all have value on their own once the deal is expanded to include a third team to add additional value or just upgrade 18th at very least.

Assuming Pistons land a top 2 pick how about...
Ivey, Grimes top 2 pick for Young
-Pistons absorb Young's cap

May be a tad light for Atlanta unless they want to go the more future setting route. For Detroit, they were already flirting with Murray and Lavine at the deadline in hopes of a quick fix to turn the franchise around. This is it. Their thought would be at least nailing the starting core of Young/Cade/Thompson/Harris (FA)/Duren as a means to still be young while getting out of the cellar.

jayjaysee wrote:

Euphonetiks wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:But Atlanta has their own 2029 and 2031 firsts and two clean swaps in 28/30, they have two 2024 firsts, or will be able to trade Sacs 2025 first.. Griffin, Kobe Bufkin.. whichever of Capela/Bogdan/OO that they use for salary matching will add value..

I cannot imagine Utah would trade Lauri with the prime assets being 29/31 1sts and swaps. The 2024 picks (10 & 18) won't be highly valued and how much value do Griffin/Bufkin have?

If that's all it takes to get Lauri, I think a lot of teams would beat it.

I’m not sure why that’s not enough for an expiring secondary star. Nor do I think the 10th pick in this draft would be valued as lowly as some feel it would be.

I think 4 firsts and 2 swaps would be a really competitive offer without anything else included. Not an Atlanta or a Utah fan, just looking at it from an outsider.

And the matching salary (Capela < Bogdan << OO probably?) all have value on their own once the deal is expanded to include a third team to add additional value or just upgrade 18th at very least.

Maybe that is the best they do, but I would think a team like the Thunder, Magic, Pacers, or Kings go bigger. And this is Danny Ainge we are talking about. The guy isn't going to just take the best available offer if he doesn't love it. With this proposal, the primary assets are 5 and 7 years out. Agree to disagree, but I don't see multiple 2024 picks valued highly. I don't see Capela as positive value and I don't know what value to assign Bogdan/OO on their extensions. I also believe a team like OKC with multiple stars still on rookie contracts and an abundance of assets should and will go after Markannen.

eitanr wrote:Assuming Pistons land a top 2 pick how about...
Ivey, Grimes top 2 pick for Young
-Pistons absorb Young's cap

May be a tad light for Atlanta unless they want to go the more future setting route. For Detroit, they were already flirting with Murray and Lavine at the deadline in hopes of a quick fix to turn the franchise around. This is it. Their thought would be at least nailing the starting core of Young/Cade/Thompson/Harris (FA)/Duren as a means to still be young while getting out of the cellar.

that's more than a tad light. At this point I consider Ivey and Grimes to be no value throw ins. so you're trading Trae for just the #2 pick in the weak draft coming up? Horrible value. You're missing about 3-4 FRPs and that is not an exaggeration.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but what about some sort of AD for Trae deal? ATL would keep Dejounte to play with AD while also keeping JJ, Okongwu, Hunter, Bogey, and Bufkin. They would be competitive in the EC without taking a step back.

Lakers would have a youngish star to market after Lebron retires. They would also have 3 FRP's + other pieces such as Reaves to trade this summer to bring in better fitting support pieces. Trae, like AD, is also a Klutch client fwiw.

I hate his defense but the PNR fit with Wemby is probably too good to pass up.

Vassell + SAS 24 FRP + ATL FRP returned for Young + SAC 24 FRP seems about right IMO.

If SAS wanted to go win-now I asssume using Graham, cap space and a few meh upside picks could get them Malcolm Brogdan and Jerami Grant. This looks good IMO -

G - Trae Young / Tre Jones / Blake Wesley
G - Malcolm Brogdan / Keldon Johnson / Malachi Branham
F - Jerami Grant / Keldon Johnson / Jaylon Tyson (SAS SRP)
F - Jeremy Sochan / Tristan da Silva (SAC FRP) / Sidy Cissoko
C - Victor Wembanyama / Zach Collins / Charles Bassey

4 20+ PPG caliber guys in the SL, a SL that has only 1 weak defender, Keldon as an upper tier 6th man, Jones a quality 2nd unit runner, nice hustle role players in Zach, Tristan, Branham, etc.

Euphonetiks wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Euphonetiks wrote:
I cannot imagine Utah would trade Lauri with the prime assets being 29/31 1sts and swaps. The 2024 picks (10 & 18) won't be highly valued and how much value do Griffin/Bufkin have?

If that's all it takes to get Lauri, I think a lot of teams would beat it.

I’m not sure why that’s not enough for an expiring secondary star. Nor do I think the 10th pick in this draft would be valued as lowly as some feel it would be.

I think 4 firsts and 2 swaps would be a really competitive offer without anything else included. Not an Atlanta or a Utah fan, just looking at it from an outsider.

And the matching salary (Capela < Bogdan << OO probably?) all have value on their own once the deal is expanded to include a third team to add additional value or just upgrade 18th at very least.

Maybe that is the best they do, but I would think a team like the Thunder, Magic, Pacers, or Kings go bigger. And this is Danny Ainge we are talking about. The guy isn't going to just take the best available offer if he doesn't love it. With this proposal, the primary assets are 5 and 7 years out. Agree to disagree, but I don't see multiple 2024 picks valued highly. I don't see Capela as positive value and I don't know what value to assign Bogdan/OO on their extensions. I also believe a team like OKC with multiple stars still on rookie contracts and an abundance of assets should and will go after Markannen.

Yes, Presti is the trump card always. But he seems to be sitting and preparing for the second apron? Or waiting for a top 5 player. Not sure.

I think plenty of teams could beat that offer if they choose to, yes. But I think that package is enough for Lauri. Between Bogdan/Griffin/Kobe you get a 5th first.

shakes0 wrote:

eitanr wrote:Assuming Pistons land a top 2 pick how about...
Ivey, Grimes top 2 pick for Young
-Pistons absorb Young's cap

May be a tad light for Atlanta unless they want to go the more future setting route. For Detroit, they were already flirting with Murray and Lavine at the deadline in hopes of a quick fix to turn the franchise around. This is it. Their thought would be at least nailing the starting core of Young/Cade/Thompson/Harris (FA)/Duren as a means to still be young while getting out of the cellar.

that's more than a tad light. At this point I consider Ivey and Grimes to be no value throw ins. so you're trading Trae for just the #2 pick in the weak draft coming up? Horrible value. You're missing about 3-4 FRPs and that is not an exaggeration.

Idk....I kinda like the basis of it. I'm of the feeling that moving Trae to the Spurs is something of a slap in the face to Atlanta to just get my picks back. Unless they get more, they should move him to a team that can offer better assets.

I think this trade looks better if Detroit gets #1 and offers the Thompson bro as well. They can even sweeten the deal by taking Hunter off their hands. So something like

#1
Thompson
Ivey

For Trae+Hunter. That gives a team of Trae/Cade/Hunter/Stewart??/Duren with Sasser off the bench.

For Atlanta, they a team of DJM/Ivey/Thompson/Johnson/OO with Bojan and others off the bench. Not even counting who they take at the top of the draft.

I'd like that alot more than SAS giving me my picks back, plus some random

Wolveswin wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:

I think the deal from Spurs is:
Vassell + Jones (or Graham)
#3 (24 Spurs 1st) for #18 (24 Kings 1st via Hawks)
2x Hawks 1sts and 1x Swap Returned

Then the real negotiations start. Add another 1st (25 Raps or Bulls 1st) or swap (best of 25 from 3x 1sts Spurs own) or more youth (Champagnie or Sochan). Or nothing.

I don't want to trade Vassell unless it is an absolute must. I would prefer to send Sochan instead. Best case scenario is to ask the Hawks to not take either Sochan, Vassell and keep #18.
And I am not trading #3 unless I know for certain the Toronto pick conveys.
Spurs are still in need of bodies.

Slim Charless wrote:

shakes0 wrote:

eitanr wrote:Assuming Pistons land a top 2 pick how about...
Ivey, Grimes top 2 pick for Young
-Pistons absorb Young's cap

May be a tad light for Atlanta unless they want to go the more future setting route. For Detroit, they were already flirting with Murray and Lavine at the deadline in hopes of a quick fix to turn the franchise around. This is it. Their thought would be at least nailing the starting core of Young/Cade/Thompson/Harris (FA)/Duren as a means to still be young while getting out of the cellar.

that's more than a tad light. At this point I consider Ivey and Grimes to be no value throw ins. so you're trading Trae for just the #2 pick in the weak draft coming up? Horrible value. You're missing about 3-4 FRPs and that is not an exaggeration.

Idk....I kinda like the basis of it. I'm of the feeling that moving Trae to the Spurs is something of a slap in the face to Atlanta to just get my picks back. Unless they get more, they should move him to a team that can offer better assets.

I'd like that alot more than SAS giving me my picks back, plus some random

Thank you.
SAS moves unto their next dynasty building while Atlanta is in 'looking for their next star mode for the next 15 years'
No Thanks.
Hawks need to forget those picks and do the hard work required to build the team. Exercise a little patience and the owner and his son needs to stop meddling.

drosestruts wrote:Trae paired with Wemby just seems like a "if you build it they will come" situation. I don't think the Spurs should be overly concerned about "overpaying" for Young.

I'd also get crazy if I were Memphis and explore a Morant for Young swap. JJJ and Young would similarly be a great pick and roll/pop combination and Memphis already has other complimentary pieces like Smart and Bane in place ready to go and it moves them on from the Morant saga.

… except JJJ doesn’t play PNR and Ja >> Trae

Topic would be a good fit next to Wemby and SAS will retain its cap and assets flexibility. SAS needs to follow OKC’s plan. Topic, Vassel, Sochan, Wemby will have 2-3 years to grow together, and SAS will be able to draft a couple of elite wings before they start rolling.

Trae is ready and wants to compete now. Neither SAS nor Wemby are ready.

Trae to the Spurs is a basketball dream. That would vault wemby and the spurs into the playoffs next season.

Trae wemby vassell picks and a bunch of cap room and sky is the limit

esvl wrote:

drosestruts wrote:Trae paired with Wemby just seems like a "if you build it they will come" situation. I don't think the Spurs should be overly concerned about "overpaying" for Young.

I'd also get crazy if I were Memphis and explore a Morant for Young swap. JJJ and Young would similarly be a great pick and roll/pop combination and Memphis already has other complimentary pieces like Smart and Bane in place ready to go and it moves them on from the Morant saga.

… except JJJ doesn’t play PNR and Ja >> Trae

Player A: 25 points, 9.5 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 58% TS%, 17.4 VORP, .13 WS/48, 22 PER

Player B: 22.5 points, 7.5 assists, 5 rebounds, 56% TS%, 10 VORP, .12 WS/48, 20.5 PER

Give you a little hint - the guy who plays for the team you like is the one with the worst stats.

Both are very very good players, and the margins may be slim, and maybe you have stylistic preferences. But I'd argue Trae is slightly better.