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Godaddycurse wrote:

BlazersBroncos wrote:I would much rather move Simons and Grant while keeping Brogdan as the swing backup G and Thybulle as a bit F. They are cheaper than the former and good locker room guys (And expire sooner). Also think Simons and Grant especially will have higher value than this board assumes (Think a desperate team will swing and miss on big fish and look at Jerami as a fallback who can masquerade as that '3rd star' - looking at PHI, SAC and even DAL here).

i doubt the FO see Brogdon and Thybulle in the teams' future plans so it makes it more likely for them to be moved imo

Frankly can't see fromt office looking at Grant realistically for any "future plans". Simons is good but there is one BIG issue, he and Scoot are like oil and water, if Por believes in Scoot then Simons should be moved.

At the risk of being accused of being insensitive, I will point out the obvious.

The Blazers have averaged 55 losses per year for the last 3 years. They have been a very bad team. Not even a bad young team, just a bad team.

If I was in their FO, I would give away their top 4 contracts (including Blogdon) to any team that would not send back any money or would send back players on rookie deals. Forget first or second-round picks.

The objective is culture change, the wins will come.

AaronB wrote:At the risk of being accused of being insensitive, I will point out the obvious.

The Blazers have averaged 55 losses per year for the last 3 years. They have been a very bad team. Not even a bad young team, just a bad team.

If I was in their FO, I would give away their top 4 contracts (including Blogdon) to any team that would not send back any money or would send back players on rookie deals. Forget first or second-round picks.

The objective is culture change, the wins will come.

This is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" type take. Look what OKC did by picking up and flipping vets for assets, do you think they should not have done that and have just dumped them right away instead? Portland is in a very deep hole so it's gonna take time but we cannot afford to leave value on the table.

Our owners are playing with a dead man's money so there is no reason to not spend every bit of cap without going into the tax. They want to keep this gravy train flowing and it isn't coming out of their pocket so SPAM is our only real advantage to rebuilding.

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:

AaronB wrote:At the risk of being accused of being insensitive, I will point out the obvious.

The Blazers have averaged 55 losses per year for the last 3 years. They have been a very bad team. Not even a bad young team, just a bad team.

If I was in their FO, I would give away their top 4 contracts (including Blogdon) to any team that would not send back any money or would send back players on rookie deals. Forget first or second-round picks.

The objective is culture change, the wins will come.

This is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" type take. Look what OKC did by picking up and flipping vets for assets, do you think they should not have done that and have just dumped them right away instead? Portland is in a very deep hole so it's gonna take time but we cannot afford to leave value on the table.

Our owners are playing with a dead man's money so there is no reason to not spend every bit of cap without going into the tax. They want to keep this gravy train flowing and it isn't coming out of their pocket so SPAM is our only real advantage to rebuilding.

The irony here is the Magic are only where they are currently because they traded a Veteran in Vucevic to Chicago for a Kings Ransom, which kick-started their rebuild.

I also believe the Blazers should trade their vets for assets if they can (young players, picks). Atleast picks and young players have upside. I sometimes see Blazers fans saying "we should keep X as a vet presence", and thats not a good use of assets IMO. Trade your current vets and you open up capsapce, then you use that capspace for 1 year or 1+1 year deals for vets. That way you get vets, players/picks with upside, cap flexibility and probably a higher pick in the draft. No reason to pay guys like Simons, Ayton, Brogdon, Grant that much money if you're not a play off contender. You dont have to give them away, but also have to be careful you dont overvalue them. IMO vets on tanking teams dont have the type of trade value their fans believe they do.

In this case, I think if they can get a 1st for Brogdon, they should take it and run.

the 3 2nds for Thybulle isnt bad either. The Blazers can do what the Magic did if they dont want to use the second round picks, accumulate them and then trade them for a future pick swap (like the Magic-PHX trade).

Residual-Heat wrote:I also believe the Blazers should trade their vets for assets if they can (young players, picks). Atleast picks and young players have upside. I sometimes see Blazers fans saying "we should keep X as a vet presence", and thats not a good use of assets IMO. Trade your current vets and you open up capsapce, then you use that capspace for 1 year or 1+1 year deals for vets. That way you get vets, players/picks with upside, cap flexibility and probably a higher pick in the draft. No reason to pay guys like Simons, Ayton, Brogdon, Grant that much money if you're not a play off contender. You dont have to give them away, but also have to be careful you dont overvalue them. IMO vets on tanking teams dont have the type of trade value their fans believe they do.

In this case, I think if they can get a 1st for Brogdon, they should take it and run.

This type of full blown tank isnt in the cards with our current ownership situation. Jody gets a cut of the revenue, and a Hinkie job would mean much less revenue. They want a watchable product to keep revenues afloat.

I am not saying I agree with this, but its the absolute reality.

PDX will move off a few vets this summer, but there wont be a full blown fire sale unless ownership makes a sudden and unlikely total shift in their business behavior.

Colbinii wrote:

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:

AaronB wrote:At the risk of being accused of being insensitive, I will point out the obvious.

The Blazers have averaged 55 losses per year for the last 3 years. They have been a very bad team. Not even a bad young team, just a bad team.

If I was in their FO, I would give away their top 4 contracts (including Blogdon) to any team that would not send back any money or would send back players on rookie deals. Forget first or second-round picks.

The objective is culture change, the wins will come.

This is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" type take. Look what OKC did by picking up and flipping vets for assets, do you think they should not have done that and have just dumped them right away instead? Portland is in a very deep hole so it's gonna take time but we cannot afford to leave value on the table.

Our owners are playing with a dead man's money so there is no reason to not spend every bit of cap without going into the tax. They want to keep this gravy train flowing and it isn't coming out of their pocket so SPAM is our only real advantage to rebuilding.

The irony here is the Magic are only where they are currently because they traded a Veteran in Vucevic to Chicago for a Kings Ransom, which kick-started their rebuild.

What is forgotten is that the Magic gave away Fournier for 2 seconds (no $ coming back basically) and took on bad contracts for Gordon and only got a first for him.

The Magic also took on bad contracts for Vuc, and at the time, the prospect of that Magic getting Lottery picks was quite low. The expectation was that they would be getting 2 non-lottery picks for an allstar center (which was still highway robbery as it turned out as Vuc is not a difference maker in any way).

The bottom line is that the Magic situation was completely different than the Blazers. The Blazers have a high salary and are terrible. They are not a play=in team. They are not close to that.

They need a culture change, which, to me, means getting rid of contracts and the coach. I say that not wanting the Magic to be the beneficiary of any of the players.

All Brogdon and Simons would do is take minutes from the players that need the minutes in Black and Howard. Are Simons and Brogdon better than those guys right now? Sure, but to draft guys and not develop them is not a good organizational plan.

AaronB wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
This is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" type take. Look what OKC did by picking up and flipping vets for assets, do you think they should not have done that and have just dumped them right away instead? Portland is in a very deep hole so it's gonna take time but we cannot afford to leave value on the table.

Our owners are playing with a dead man's money so there is no reason to not spend every bit of cap without going into the tax. They want to keep this gravy train flowing and it isn't coming out of their pocket so SPAM is our only real advantage to rebuilding.

The irony here is the Magic are only where they are currently because they traded a Veteran in Vucevic to Chicago for a Kings Ransom, which kick-started their rebuild.

What is forgotten is that the Magic gave away Fournier for 2 seconds (no $ coming back basically)

That's good value for Fournier.

and took on bad contracts for Gordon and only got a first for him.

Yup, that's Gordon's value.

The Magic also took on bad contracts for Vuc, and at the time, the prospect of that Magic getting Lottery picks was quite low.

Not really. The Magic took on an expiring player.

The expectation was that they would be getting 2 non-lottery picks for an allstar center (which was still highway robbery as it turned out as Vuc is not a difference maker in any way).

Everyone knew Vuc wasn't a difference maker. Everyone thought it was a massive overpay at the time.

Colbinii wrote:

AaronB wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
The irony here is the Magic are only where they are currently because they traded a Veteran in Vucevic to Chicago for a Kings Ransom, which kick-started their rebuild.

What is forgotten is that the Magic gave away Fournier for 2 seconds (no $ coming back basically)

That's good value for Fournier.

and took on bad contracts for Gordon and only got a first for him.

Yup, that's Gordon's value.

The Magic also took on bad contracts for Vuc, and at the time, the prospect of that Magic getting Lottery picks was quite low.

Not really. The Magic took on an expiring player.

The expectation was that they would be getting 2 non-lottery picks for an allstar center (which was still highway robbery as it turned out as Vuc is not a difference maker in any way).

Everyone knew Vuc wasn't a difference maker. Everyone thought it was a massive overpay at the time.

Nope, nope, nope and wait for it ... nope