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esvl wrote:As a Griz fan, I am curios in what area he managed to develop his skills to justify this kind of contract. He was a defensive liability at his time at Memphis.

elite 3 pt shooting

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
It is now impossible for the Suns to sign any players above the league minimum and the only players they can trade with positive value are Booker and Durant.

Do they need more than vet man players? Fill the rosters with ring chasers.

No player would ever ring chase with the Suns instead of the Celtics or Thunder or Nuggets.

lol.. no one decided to ring chase with nuggets last year coming off their chip

Colbinii wrote:

The-Power wrote:

Crives wrote:I think he really liked his role in phx, lots of quotes with small jabs at how Milwaukee only let him catch and shoot

That's odd considering that it's demonstrably false but Allen and PHX is a good fit nevertheless and it's a solid deal for both (keep in mind Allen's relatively low career-earnings), so that's great.

I was expecting some massive difference after reading Crives post.

AST%: 10.9 > 12.1
TOV%: 10.3 > 11.3
2P Assisted%: 60.6 > 57.0
3P Assisted%: 88.4 > 91.2
FTR: 22.6 > 21.6

Drives per game: 5.5 > 5.7
Front Ct Touches: 23.2 > 23.2
Dribbles per Touch: 1.43 > 1.81
Seconds per Touch: 2.37 > 2.57

The only noticeable difference is dribbling the ball one more dribble every 3 touches.

To add to this:

Shooting frequencies (MIL (2022/23) compared to PHX):

Catch and Shoot: 47.4% (3.4 FGA) -> 55.9% (5.0 FGA)
Pull Ups: 21.7% (1.7 FGA) –> 12.8% (1.1 FGA)
Less than 10ft: 29.1% (2.3 FGA) -> 31.0% (2.8 FGA)

So he quite literally has more ‘catch and shoot’ FGA than ‘pull up’ FGA, and the increase in shots closer to the rim isn't all that noteworthy either (Source: stats.nba.com, Player Tracking). 3PAr stayed practically the same as well (.657 to .652). But if Allen has the perception of being more ‘free’ in his game and that has helped him with his confidence, joy and/or efficiency as a result then that's great for him and Phoenix.

The-Power wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

The-Power wrote:That's odd considering that it's demonstrably false but Allen and PHX is a good fit nevertheless and it's a solid deal for both (keep in mind Allen's relatively low career-earnings), so that's great.

I was expecting some massive difference after reading Crives post.

AST%: 10.9 > 12.1
TOV%: 10.3 > 11.3
2P Assisted%: 60.6 > 57.0
3P Assisted%: 88.4 > 91.2
FTR: 22.6 > 21.6

Drives per game: 5.5 > 5.7
Front Ct Touches: 23.2 > 23.2
Dribbles per Touch: 1.43 > 1.81
Seconds per Touch: 2.37 > 2.57

The only noticeable difference is dribbling the ball one more dribble every 3 touches.

To add to this:

Shooting frequencies (MIL (2022/23) compared to PHX):

Catch and Shoot: 47.4% (3.4 FGA) -> 55.9% (5.0 FGA)
Pull Ups: 21.7% (1.7 FGA) –> 12.8% (1.1 FGA)
Less than 10ft: 29.1% (2.3 FGA) -> 31.0% (2.8 FGA)

So he quite literally has more ‘catch and shoot’ FGA than ‘pull up’ FGA, and the increase in shots closer to the rim isn't all that noteworthy either (Source: stats.nba.com, Player Tracking). 3PAr stayed practically the same as well (.657 to .652). But if Allen has the perception of being more ‘free’ in his game and that has helped him with his confidence, joy and/or efficiency as a result then that's great for him and Phoenix.

Allen has better space to attack since he isn't attack off of Giannis' drives and is instead attacking with 4 other shooters.

This part makes sense, which in theory makes his game more efficient.

Honestly I see no difference other than he was hot from 3 this year due to variance. When he settles back to 40-42% he will be a carbon copy.

This seems like a deal that is fine for next year, but probably won't age well. Phoenix has painted themselves into a corner in terms of salary cap. They really can't afford to a let a rotation guy go in the open market, so extending him makes sense in that regard. Signing roll players to 4 year extensions when your superstar is already 35 kinda hurts though. Not much you can do with that beal contract right now, but when it comes off the books, you really want the rest of the cap pretty clean to do 1 final build around a prime booker.

Colbinii wrote:

The-Power wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I was expecting some massive difference after reading Crives post.

AST%: 10.9 > 12.1
TOV%: 10.3 > 11.3
2P Assisted%: 60.6 > 57.0
3P Assisted%: 88.4 > 91.2
FTR: 22.6 > 21.6

Drives per game: 5.5 > 5.7
Front Ct Touches: 23.2 > 23.2
Dribbles per Touch: 1.43 > 1.81
Seconds per Touch: 2.37 > 2.57

The only noticeable difference is dribbling the ball one more dribble every 3 touches.

To add to this:

Shooting frequencies (MIL (2022/23) compared to PHX):

Catch and Shoot: 47.4% (3.4 FGA) -> 55.9% (5.0 FGA)
Pull Ups: 21.7% (1.7 FGA) –> 12.8% (1.1 FGA)
Less than 10ft: 29.1% (2.3 FGA) -> 31.0% (2.8 FGA)

So he quite literally has more ‘catch and shoot’ FGA than ‘pull up’ FGA, and the increase in shots closer to the rim isn't all that noteworthy either (Source: stats.nba.com, Player Tracking). 3PAr stayed practically the same as well (.657 to .652). But if Allen has the perception of being more ‘free’ in his game and that has helped him with his confidence, joy and/or efficiency as a result then that's great for him and Phoenix.

Allen has better space to attack since he isn't attack off of Giannis' drives and is instead attacking with 4 other shooters.

This part makes sense, which in theory makes his game more efficient.

Honestly I see no difference other than he was hot from 3 this year due to variance. When he settles back to 40-42% he will be a carbon copy.

Guys I’m just reiterating what Allen has stated multiple times. Please don’t shoot the messenger. He said he felt he was empowered to be a decision maker, and encouraged to drive the ball and not just be a catch and shoot player

Crives wrote:Guys I’m just reiterating what Allen has stated multiple times. Please don’t shoot the messenger. He said he felt he was empowered to be a decision maker, and encouraged to drive the ball and not just be a catch and shoot player

Apologies if that came across as shooting the messenger – that certainly was not my intention. It's why I highlighted specifically that it's good on Allen if he feels a stark difference even if it is not found in the numbers. I never wrote that you were wrong in your reporting or that you were the one who came up with the claim.

Mavrelous wrote:

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Interesting he signed that now, MLE is 60/4, that's his floor, he could've tested what ORL was willing to pay.

While true, imagine he gets injured between now and then - in a serious way - and he loses the chance to ever get that big contract. No one wants to be the Nerlens Noel either

JimmyPlopper wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:

Read on Twitter

Interesting he signed that now, MLE is 60/4, that's his floor, he could've tested what ORL was willing to pay.

While true, imagine he gets injured between now and then - in a serious way - and he loses the chance to ever get that big contract. No one wants to be the Nerlens Noel either

Yup.

Allen has not made Generation Wealth yet in his NBA Career. 70 Million added onto his career earnings puts him close to 100 Million which is in the ball park of generational wealth.

It's just extremely difficult for a person--a human being--to turning down 70 Million when he could get 80 Million. That's a gambler's move, and most players are smarter than gamblers.

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
No player would ever ring chase with the Suns instead of the Celtics or Thunder or Nuggets.

That isn't true. There are players who have connections with KD/Booker who may prefer to sign with them. Players could also get more of a shot at breaking the actual playoff rotation with Phoenix compared to the 3 teams you mentioned.

Not to mention the weather and location factor.

Nuggets won a title and we didn’t see ring chases run to them.

Phoenix in the summer is borderline unbearable. Luckily, with that type of money, Allen can afford a very nice summer house somewhere else.

Phoenix is an awful city, what, lol.

Denver is way nicer.

Godaddycurse wrote:

esvl wrote:As a Griz fan, I am curios in what area he managed to develop his skills to justify this kind of contract. He was a defensive liability at his time at Memphis.

elite 3 pt shooting

It was the case in Memphis too, but we traded him for 2 2nds because he is useless in PO battles. 18m for catch and shoot + a bit of cutting - defence - any form of creation? Thank you very much.

jbk1234 wrote:

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
That isn't true. There are players who have connections with KD/Booker who may prefer to sign with them. Players could also get more of a shot at breaking the actual playoff rotation with Phoenix compared to the 3 teams you mentioned.

Not to mention the weather and location factor.

Nuggets won a title and we didn’t see ring chases run to them.

Phoenix in the summer is borderline unbearable. Luckily, with that type of money, Allen can afford a very nice summer house somewhere else.

Luckily for NBA players - the season runs when Phoenix is absolutely gorgeous. October through May is almost perfect.

June through September sucks...

esvl wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:

esvl wrote:As a Griz fan, I am curios in what area he managed to develop his skills to justify this kind of contract. He was a defensive liability at his time at Memphis.

elite 3 pt shooting

It was the case in Memphis too, but we traded him for 2 2nds because he is useless in PO battles. 18m for catch and shoot + a bit of cutting - defence - any form of creation? Thank you very much.

That's literally the price for these tier of players.

Allen is a 5th-starter level player, which makes him more valuable than the MLE.

Max Struss, Tim Hardaway Jr, Luguentz Dort, Kevin Huerter, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell

All these guys are in a similar mold/tier of player and make around what Allen just signed for. They all primarily work off-ball on offense, low-usage and have varying degrees of "Can make a play after being ran off the 3P line".

The thing with Memphis is Ja is a horrible defensive player, Memphis wanted the size of Brooks/Bane at the 2/3 next to Ja and opted for those players next to Ja rather than Allen.

Allen was actually useful for Milwaukee last year, and as he has refined his game, appears to have become a useful piece in the post-season.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:Think contract fine. Sun need his shooting. Suns committed to paying tax. Just comes down to how much new ownership can actually afford.

It is now impossible for the Suns to sign any players above the league minimum and the only players they can trade with positive value are Booker and Durant.

They have Royce’s bird rights too and according to Gambo want to retain him even if it takes their luxury tax bill over $200M (absolutely nuts).

jbk1234 wrote:

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
That isn't true. There are players who have connections with KD/Booker who may prefer to sign with them. Players could also get more of a shot at breaking the actual playoff rotation with Phoenix compared to the 3 teams you mentioned.

Not to mention the weather and location factor.

Nuggets won a title and we didn’t see ring chases run to them.

Phoenix in the summer is borderline unbearable. Luckily, with that type of money, Allen can afford a very nice summer house somewhere else.

Definitely agree with the summers. For me , I’ll have two houses before I deal with Denver winters lol

having lived in both cities, Denver has nicer weather for longer, Summer doesn't last from June through August in phoenix but May through early/mid October, Denver's winter isn't 6 months long

Seems like a pretty fair deal. Coming off of career year year good to cash in. Maybe he could have gotten more by waiting for UFA but the reality is he is a good role player…not a star.

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
No player would ever ring chase with the Suns instead of the Celtics or Thunder or Nuggets.

That isn't true. There are players who have connections with KD/Booker who may prefer to sign with them. Players could also get more of a shot at breaking the actual playoff rotation with Phoenix compared to the 3 teams you mentioned.

Not to mention the weather and location factor.

Nuggets won a title and we didn’t see ring chases run to them.

DeAndre Jordan and Justin Holiday don't count as ring chasers?

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:Not to mention the weather and location factor.

Nuggets won a title and we didn’t see ring chases run to them.

Phoenix in the summer is borderline unbearable. Luckily, with that type of money, Allen can afford a very nice summer house somewhere else.

Definitely agree with the summers. For me , I’ll have two houses before I deal with Denver winters lol

Have you been to Denver in the winter? It's not like Minnesota...

Good to lock the money in before the playoffs where he could bomb and undo his good work